Opinions - Legalize All Drugs

[woodrod]

LEGALIZE ALL DRUGS

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition ( www.leap.cc ), a group of former judges, cops, prosecutors, prison wardens and concerned citizens, knows from decades of experience that drug lords and street dealers accept death at the hands of the state or other dealers as a condition of employment.

That is why the ever-increasing penalties for trafficking which now include massive mandatory-minimum sentences have not been effective in reducing availability of illicit drugs on the streets of America.

According to the Associated Press KUWAIT CITY ( AP ) -- A court has convicted a member of Kuwait's ruling family for drug trafficking and the court has condemned him to death, according to a ruling obtained Monday. It is believed to be the first time that a member of a ruling family in one of the Gulf Arab states received the death sentence for a drug offense.

Even facing the death penalty, being wealthy and having connections to royalty, the allure of additional riches derived from drugs is too strong. So, we can conclude from this and our own prison population, that no matter how severe the penalty there will always be those willing to run the risk for the rewards.

We will never stop trafficking in drugs as long as they are illegal, the market is there and the profit so substantial.

The solution is glaringly obvious.

The solution is to legalize all drugs, regulate and control the manufacturing process and license the marketplace. According to the National Institute for Drug Abuse, 107.8 billion U.S. dollars is associated with drugrelated crime, including criminal justice system costs and costs borne by victims of crime. The cost of treating drug abuse ( including research, training and prevention efforts ) was estimated to be $15.8 billion, a fraction of the cost to support the War on Drugs.

Our government has the freedom to choose a different method of combating illegal drug use. It has the power to change tactics and to treat drug abuse for what it is a -- medical problem, not a criminal problem. The government can choose to provide treatment instead of jails for those that abuse drugs. Legalizing and controlling drug distribution would yield enough revenue to offset treatment programs without the surplus savings from taxes and reduced prison costs.

Nobel Prize winning laureate PhD. Milton Friedman stated in an open letter to President Bush that revenue from taxation of marijuana sales would range from $2.4 billion per year if marijuana were taxed like ordinary consumer goods and if it were taxed like alcohol or tobacco the revenue stream would be closer to $6.2 billion annually.

LEAP believes that drugs are too dangerous to be left in the hands of criminals. It's time to regulate and control them. Let's put the money into education, research and treatment instead of jails and prisons. We all want a better future for ourselves and our children.

[Nature Boy]

The US right treat drug prohibition very much like the Iraq conflict. Continuing the fight despite the ever insurmountable odds is their only approach for the time being. Anything else would be as good as "quitting" and by golly do good aul' Americans not like quitters. They can come up with some statistics to suggest progress despite the thousands of conflicting statistics that prove prohibition has failed worldwide for at least the last forty years. Legalizing and regulating is seen as the soft-handed option, same way negotiation and gradually evacuating troops from Iraq is seen, but in both scenarios no pragmatism is being applied. People use drugs and a lot of Muslims hate America and its way of life. No forced wars or magic wands are going to change that overnight. America needs to get real but the horror of the situation is that America is probably a lot smarter than she seems. No doubt there are some very deeply-rooted vested interests in both fuck-ups.

Reputation Comments on this post:

yes!

[stoneinfocus]

But the overwhelming majority of law enforcement officers, social workers, addiction therapists and Americans know what a disaster this would be for our communities and our nation.

In the first part of the article, drug-use is compared to murder, rape and such, and as that it´s needed fighting it ..

It´s like saying Hitler wasn´t insane for fithing and eradicating Jews, because letting them be, would be too easy...

And referring to the quote, -yeah, that´d be a shame, if all those were just plain idiots for working for and defending a wrong opinion and loosing their jobs, or even worse, they might have to overthink it all and start all over new, and make things better. Damn, that´d be evil.

[Riconoen {UGC}]

Looking back to what happened after alcohol prohibition was repealed should be enough convincing this country needs to repeal the WOD, too bad nobody ever pays attention to history.

[baudmax]

Oh yeah, it's quite the long list of more than good enough reasons to legalize all drugs for adult consumption, we can echo chamber them all day long, or waste energy debating the likes of "Police Officer", when we should be realizing these as the diversions that they are. Land of the Sheep, Home of the Slaves! Where a system of lies trembles at what would happen, should the populace not be so harrassed and kept looking over their shoulders, fearing pussy merc ninja turtles glammed all day on TV as heroes, as to get serious about the true order of business: holding the filthy fascist criminal psychopaths responsible for this mess, and giving them the Hannibal-Lechter-strapped-to-hand-truck-with-facemask-treatment they have so rightly earned (along with life prison sentences; though the memories of Nazis at Nuremburg dancing on air stirs a certain appeal, too). It is long past the time for debate, and that regards Peace, Justice, AND Cognitive Liberty. We will only ever triumph over these sociopaths when we have the guts to demand our inherent human rights to fulfill our potentials, fearlessly live free, and will stand for nothing less than full satisfaction! After all, we have logic AND integrity on our side, and there are a heck of a lot more of US, collectively than there are of THEM (a relatively small number of liars with guns, who hide behind the media butt-trumpet facade of Omniscient Power) . 'Bout time We the People tear asunder the curtains and expose the Wizard's terrorist shams, and put these bootlicking scum back in their place; Seize the initiative, stop wasting time RE-acting (and being controlled by them thereby), charge ahead, storm the gates; like a thousand spears simultaneously piercing a thousand weak links in the armor, simultaneously! Who Dares, WINS!

The alternative... observe as a meak, passive victim, waiting to see who "they come for next", while they take their sweet time systematically taking everything left you value (hopefully not you, at least not yet). The End of Ways is Not The End of Days!

Peace & Divinity,
Baudeaux Machs

[Nagognog2]

It's called "conservatism" and means that what is good enough now - would always get worse if it were to change. The new breed of 'conservatives' not only doesn't want to change progressively, they want to roll back the clock. Point out that they are working to bringing back the horrors of the writings of Charles Dickens, they would say "What's wrong with Dickens?" and change the subject. Making you look like a hater of classical literature - which they never read.

You are proposing to have a dialogue using truth as the tool towards defeating the enemy regards the "war on drugs." This assumes they will discuss historical facts. They made clear that, and I quote; "Truth doesn't matter. This is about faith!" Truth has become un-patriotic and against Jesus. Use the word 'truth' and you want al Qaida to win and all the Christian churches burned.

I am not trying to dissuade from telling the truth - on the contrary. I'm not a pessimest. Rather I'm suggesting we approach these people for what they are - brain-washed mental cases. Step around them and continue to educate the American people to start asking serious questions about the issues. The "war on drugs" is only one of the issues. Don't set your sights on just that - they are killing the entire planet at present.

Get the microphone. Join the people on your/our side with the microphone. Tell the citizens what is going on and where: Education. Laws. Environment. Diplomacy. Their Children. The Future. We are doing that now. Just a glance at the outcome of the November elections proves it.

Strike while the iron is hot!

[yj965]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

I am not trying to dissuade from telling the truth - on the contrary. I'm not a pessimest. Rather I'm suggesting we approach these people for what they are - brain-washed mental cases. Step around them and continue to educate the American people to start asking serious questions about the issues. The "war on drugs" is only one of the issues. Don't set your sights on just that - they are killing the entire planet at present.

Everyday, three or more times I see an advertisement for why marijuana is bad. They go from a guy saying "Man, what happened last night? Did the girls make it home ok? I was so stoned I cant remember anything" to "I smoked weed with some friends and nothing happened. I didn't fall over and die. I didn't kill anyone, I didn't go on a date, I didn't go mountain biking, I didn't(.....), I stayed on my friends couch all night. I think I'll take my chances out there."

I cant help but to see these ads and laugh until I fall out of my chair and then puke in disgust. Just as Nagognog2 said, "propaganda and outright lies."

If there isn't already I think that we (or someone) should start our own ad on how much bullshit we have been fed over the years. How about something entitled "End Propaganda". Something filled with facts from reliable medical societies and international statistics that show why almost everything the general public knows about most drugs is really far from the truth. Anything to get the truth to the public without it being contaminated.

Maybe a short on YouTube? Something that gets the word out to the public. I dont know much about spreading my words besides on here and posting fliers around town. Hey, maybe we could create a downloadable flier that we all could print off thousands of copies and distribute them all over SWIMs area (the entire earth it seems).

I just wanted to get, and give, ideas on how we can put an end to this money pit and death trap they call the War on Drugs.

What more can be done? Your comments will be much appreciated.

[Darksanity]

Originally Posted by yj965

Hey, maybe we could create a downloadable flier that we all could print off thousands of copies and distribute them all over SWIMs area (the entire earth it seems).

I just wanted to get, and give, ideas on how we can put an end to this money pit and death trap they call the War on Drugs.

What more can be done? Your comments will be much appreciated.

YESS!! I've already thought about this one! PDF files with real truth information, and we could put in in front of the bullshit propaganda posters we have in public colleges! There are many on www.drugwarfacts.com but none are in french (primarly language in my region) and I don't know how to modify PDF files...

THere's probably someone good with photoshop or something on this forum?? If everyone makes a little, and convince more ppl to put the papers everywhere, so the most ppl are aware, we may make a difference!!

[Chevelle]

Lets get serious for a second. Aside from the economic implications don't you think this would bring about a certain degree of chaos? Moral and otherwise.

Reputation Comments on this post:

got ballz kid

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by Chevelle

Lets get serious for a second. Aside from the economic implications don't you think this would bring about a certain degree of chaos? Moral and otherwise.

You would probably see an initial rise in drug use, which would then stabilize to normal levels.

The most potential for negative after-effects would be if the government didn't actually listen to the academics for once and institute a balanced system of regulation and the means for proper education after legalisation occurs.


Look at the effects of the current "Drug War". Now THATS chaos, both morally and otherwise.

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by Chevelle

Lets get serious for a second. Aside from the economic implications don't you think this would bring about a certain degree of chaos? Moral and otherwise.

I found the perfect picture to depict what I think our little friend quoted above thinks will happen if drugs are legalized.

[emineo]

That pic sucks

Reputation Comments on this post:

Come on. You can do better than that.

[Nagognog2]

I beg your pardon: This is a serious thread/topic. I don't care for having our members, myself included, to be shoved aside as one person arrives late and orders us to stand at attention as our thoughts are not the newcomers idea of "serious."

It is quite clear that you believe Satan will rise from the pit of Hell should we ever stop incarcerating over 10% of the African-American population in the cities. Should we put our tax dollars into treatment programs and educational outreach - instead of prisons and punishment. Should we ever look at the situation with our eyes wide open instead of glued shut by propaganda and outright lies.

This WAS a serious thread.

[Chevelle]

Anyway, I respect the seriousness of the topic and I sincerely want to know how this is supposed to work w/ all drugs being legalized.

Do you think society will turn in to something like "Escape from LA" with Kurt Russell, with drugs and crime running rampant as this seems to be the common concept of what would happen should all drugs be legailized and so easily accessable.

[Bajeda]

See my post, sitting right above yours.

In short, no. I don't see that happening at all. In fact, I see that happening if we continue on with the current trend of suppressing civil liberties to fight the war on drugs and the war on terror and whatever other wars on abstract concepts or indefeatable entities we can come up with. We'll regress back into Police States full of conflict between the government and its conscientious citizens and all the other assorted problems that would come with it.

Just because a view is common that doesn't mean its correct. When it comes to drugs anything commonly believed seems to not be correct or fully truthful. Drug-related crime comes more from prohibition of drugs rather than the use of drugs in itself. See alcohol prohibition and the relative crime rates and alcohol related problems that were prevalent before, during, and after. You can easily identify what the real problem was.

[DrGonzo]

Drugs will always be in demand. The drug war will always cost billions of tax dollars.

If we end the War and start taxing legalized drugs, we will earn billions of tax dollars, and at the same time rid ourselves of a little money-pit called the DEA. This new excess of money can be funneled into education and social programs, fighting the real causes of violent crime: poverty, lack of education, and lack of opportunity.

At the very least, all drug-related crime will be drastically reduced by legalization. This is because most drug-related violence isn't actually about drugs-- it's about money. By legalizing we'd take the profit out of selling drugs. In other words, no more turf wars, no more cocaine cartels, no more heroin-funded mafias. Drug dealers would be out of business (which is bad news for my pet goat, but a sacrifice he's willing to accept).

Just my two cents.

[robertone]

Chevelle is right! There will be a major economic implication! There won't be billions of dollars spent for the prosecution and incarnation of drug users. Legalized drugs will be taxed and criminals won't make fortunes with the trade of drugs. Furthermore, police officers will have more capacity left for real crimes. The only ones who will hit legalization truly is the DEA, they will have to look for an other job.

By the way, you can compare the political influence of the DEA with the political influence of the NRA (National Riffle Association). The DEA will always tell politicians that drugs are wrong and have to be prohibited and use their influence to keep it prohibited. The DEA even use their influence to block and oppose any legal medical marijuana initiative (see DPA concerning Marijuana and also DPA concerning the war on drugs).


PLEASE DON'T LINK TO THE DEA FROM THE FORUMS! LORDY!

[rizla677]

Hi all interesting thread. just throwing in my 2cents. While swim indulges in mid expansion and good old may j for relaxation whenever he can. I perhaps feel that the legalization of all drugs may not be the best way forward. while comments such as 'drugs usage will initally rise then stablise' are valid and prob true, i fear that there are some people on this earth (a good proportion) who are simply too weak to be given the choice whether to use drugs responsibly or not. The addictive nature of the human being is sometimes too much to fight in some people and they will give in. I use addictive not in the herion physical sense but in the pyschological dependicies that occur through all of us. a fair proportion of people don't use illicit drugs, but instead find themslves addicted to tv, wife beating, eating pure filth in huge portions, war, violence and many more.
We can never legalise drugs until the education and parenting standards rise. So people can grow up to be well rounded human beings with tolerance and understanding. The weak should protected because they cannot protect themselves.
This i can prob say is the only argument for drugs prohibiton with the exception of gang crime. which wont go away if drugs are legalised as they'll still sell drugs illegaly, prob for cheaper than the gov would charge after a hefty luxury tax + sales tax + brand new tax.
Please dont flame me. just my opinion and would genuinly love to discuss more.

peace

[zera]

Originally Posted by rizla677

Hi all interesting thread. just throwing in my 2cents. While swim indulges in mid expansion and good old may j for relaxation whenever he can. I perhaps feel that the legalization of all drugs may not be the best way forward. while comments such as 'drugs usage will initally rise then stablise' are valid and prob true, i fear that there are some people on this earth (a good proportion) who are simply too weak to be given the choice whether to use drugs responsibly or not. The addictive nature of the human being is sometimes too much to fight in some people and they will give in. I use addictive not in the herion physical sense but in the pyschological dependicies that occur through all of us. a fair proportion of people don't use illicit drugs, but instead find themslves addicted to tv, wife beating, eating pure filth in huge portions, war, violence and many more.
We can never legalise drugs until the education and parenting standards rise. So people can grow up to be well rounded human beings with tolerance and understanding. The weak should protected because they cannot protect themselves.

Well if you dont believe drugs should be legalized because people will become psychologically dependent on it, why then does society allow many of the other things that you describe as psychologically addictive. Do you similarly believe that television, unhealthy food, video games, pornography, gambling and consumerism should also be banned? Living in a free society means the freedom to make bad decisions. No liberty loving person (hell no person who even enjoys freedom at all) would want to live in a society where the government has complete power to prevent anyone from making a politically incorrect decision.

As for waiting for educational standards to rise, no matter how good education and parenting is man will never be perfect. Its just human nature, people will always make poor decisions no matter how they are raised. There was a society whose philosophy was to restrict liberty until they could model the perfect man, at which point government would not be necessary. However the Soviet Union turned out to be a disaster. Man will never be perfect, freedom will always be messy, but it is much better than the alternative of totalitarian government (in one form or another).

This i can prob say is the only argument for drugs prohibiton with the exception of gang crime. which wont go away if drugs are legalised as they'll still sell drugs illegaly, prob for cheaper than the gov would charge after a hefty luxury tax + sales tax + brand new tax.

[bcubed]

Ironically, I think the "good" news on the WOD is that the opposition is getting so strident.

Typically, groups make more extreme statments when they sense they're losing ground. Slavery went from a "necessary evil" to a "positive good" shortly before abolished; more recently, by the time a president has to say "I'm NOT a crook" or "I DID NOT have sexual relations," it's a sign they're swimming against the tide. The fact that medical MJ propositions are making inroads despite the enormous federal backlash is a good indication that we're approaching a tipping point. Remember that historical change is like an earthquake: little outward change as pressures mount, then one day, bam!

Incidentally, I don't think the "illegal drugs vs. booze" is a profitable line, as it allows opponents to retort: "see how much trouble we have with just ONE legal drug? Do you really want to add more drugs to the mix?"

Incidentally, I saw (on a libertarian website): "Just outlaw tobacco--the current over/under on the first cigarette-related gang shooting is 2 weeks."

[yj965]

I just hate to hear about my friends, and other people, over dosing or mixing things they shouldnt have because of there ignorance of the effect of those drugs and what happens when they are mixed. I'm not saying this wouldnt happen if drugs were legal but if you were able to go to a store that sold everything that the government has scheduled then the people working there could say "Don't mix xxxx and xxxx, it can kill you"

There would be taxes, no doubt about that but if the campaign were to show how much violence and killings dropped because there would be no black market for those drugs anymore. There would be less people dying all around. Any where from the mobs and gangs that run off illegal drug sales that kill each other and innocent bystanders to the people that are addicted to something that rob the store or someone on the street and kills them for a few dollars.

We may be more free then some countries but it is illegal for me to be in total pursuit of happiness which is very hypocritical statement for what this country was founded upon.

I also wonder why "In God We Trust" is still on our money. Not only because of all the things concerning the separation between God and government, but because God put those drugs there for us to use and enjoy. It just seems to me as if every time I see some money it shows me how much bullshit and lies we hear from Uncle Sam, he is really atheist but not during election time!

[grandbaby]

Originally Posted by bcubed

Incidentally, I don't think the "illegal drugs vs. booze" is a profitable line, as it allows opponents to retort: "see how much trouble we have with just ONE legal drug? Do you really want to add more drugs to the mix?"

I can see your point. The real argument about booze v. other psychoactives is much more nuanced than can be got across in advertising. Thing is, though, that when they say "Look how much trouble we have with booze" is that you can quickly back them into a corner about prohibition — there are only a few fringe puritans that think bringing back the good ol' days of Al Capone and bathtub gin poisonings is the way to go. And when they're forced to see the absurdity of the pro-booze/anti-everything else position, you can clobber them with all the heroin users dying because of rotten junk and the club kids heading to hospital because of the crap cocktails that are passed off as MDMA, etc.

great post, btw.

[IkBenDeMan]

Originally Posted by rizla677

i fear that there are some people on this earth (a good proportion) who are simply too weak to be given the choice whether to use drugs responsibly or not.

Excuse me, are you implying that certain people are better and more capable than others? I think this is what everybody is ranting about 'education' for. Not a fan of the rights of man, or simply a social darwinist? I've heard this argument all too many times before and it kills me.

[baudmax]

Originally Posted by IkBenDeMan

Excuse me, are you implying that certain people are better and more capable than others? I think this is what everybody is ranting about 'education' for. Not a fan of the rights of man, or simply a social darwinist? I've heard this argument all too many times before and it kills me.

Yeah, this sort of 'reasoning' would seem to justify requirements mandating we all strap foam helmets on our heads before we leave our houses.. because.. you know... SOME PEOPLE are so spastic/intellectually incapable/whatever. I mean, if it only saves one idiot from breaking their head open on the street, it's worth it! Besides, us Serfs only deserve as much freedom as the LEAST of us. We're all guilty and incompetent, or at least so should the law presume. Besides, we are all but criminals in the eyes of the omnipotent state! And the real kicker is, we are being pre-emptively punished for the potential actions of others: FOR OUR OWN GOOD, so we ought to be grateful slaves, too!

Um, yeah, sure.

Peace and Divinity
Baudeaux Machs

[grandbaby]

Originally Posted by baudmax

Yeah, this sort of 'reasoning' would seem to justify requirements mandating we all strap foam helmets on our heads before we leave our houses.. because.. you know... SOME PEOPLE are so spastic/intellectually incapable/whatever. I mean, if it only saves one idiot from breaking their head open on the street, it's worth it! Besides, us Serfs only deserve as much freedom as the LEAST of us.

A bit late, and slightly off-topic, but if you haven't read the story "Harrison Bergeron" by the late Kurt Vonnegut, go out and do so immediately. It's in the collection Welcome to the Monkey House.