Spiritual - k-in the mind or door to somethin higher ?

[freeebase]

is all the effects of k just thoughts in the mind(within each individual) or is it opening ur mind to somethin beyond the normal(connectin everything to everything) ... and whats the story with coincidences bein more frequent while on and after takin k ?he read somthin like that in that book "KETAMINE - DREAMS AND REALITIES" but swim has noticed that a few times now before he read that .... has anyone read that book either ...

[arman]

SWIM heard a lot about "Ketamine: Dreams and Realities" by Karl Jansen but SWIM didn't had opportunity to read it yet.

Ketamine is a dissociative. That means it seperates your mind from your body. Actually the mind seperates from body and therefore has no sense input from body/physical world. According to this fact there could be 2 explanation for ketamine OBE, NDE and similar experiences (commonly called k-hole).

When the mind loses contact with the world:
1. Mind creates a new world and make some kind of dream while still the person is completely awake/alert. And start living that new world.
2. Mind experiences the other world(s) cause the physical limitations are now removed.

SWIM thinks both of them are possible in a ketamine experience. Actually there is 2 kind of experience, one is dream-like and unclear and the other one is very clear (and sometimes described as more real than this world) and apears to be nothing but reality. SWIM thinks the first one is for on of the above mentioned explanations (respectively).
It is possible to experience both of them in one ketamine experience. The real experiences is often at the peak of the effects. But too much k will render someone unconscious on the coming-up. To best experience it someone should find the point which he can take most dosage without losing consciousness.

There is many sources on the net which SWIY can find info about ketamine's mechanism of action on brain and such experiences.

[Niteflights]

Seeing Dr. Karl Jansen's book "Ketamine: Dreams and Realities"" mentioned brings up some thoughts on it once again. Although there is a lot information in the book, it seems to me that Jansen really strays way to far toward the esoteric/new age end of the spectrum with many of his assertions and speculations. Some of these include the idea that ketamine gives users direct access to the true existence behind the veil of reality, past lives, aliens, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind fluff but in the context of an objective clinical/scholarly work it seems the book really misses the mark, especially since it is the most authoritative book on the substance. In addition many of the quite serious dangers involved with ketamine use seem to be played down in the authors views. Some of the most relevant clinical findings (such as Olney's) on ketamine neurotoxicity have never been properly refuted and are casually dismissed.

The bottom line seems apparent... ketamine is a dissociative anaesthetic. It disconnects your mind from your body. You go into the realm of pure consciousness/imagination/mind. No kids, you don't actually go soaring around the universe communicating with elves, you are WHACKED OUT ON K. Why this simple reality is not so clear to someone with a doctorate in clinical pharmacology from Oxford makes me wonder if long term ketamine use has it's caveats... then I remember John Lilly. What is there to wonder about?

Careful diving,
Andrei
______

[Down-the-k-hole]

Slightly off topic but does anyone know where I could purchase Ketamine Dreams & Realities by Dr Karl Jansen in the UK? I have searched all bookshops in Edinburgh, none seem to stock. Nor do any major UK web suppliers. WTF?! It looks like it just disappeared since K became class C here!

[Psych0naut]

Maybe try a search engine? Type the titel in and see if there are any online book shops selling it.

[enquirewithin]

karl Jansen's book is the book about the non-medical use of ketamine.

Amazon (surprisingly!) and the publisher MAPS sell it online. Part of the material from the book, on NDEs, can be read here.

What you experience on K may well be 'unfiltered' reality, or the quantum flux.

[k-skywalker]

question for niteflights then !


are u sayin there is nothing more than we see and that the study of quantum physics is a waste of time and that a real near death experience by someone who has a heart attack is just in the mind also as that when on ketamine ? jansen did not imply it was right or wrong . he mentions points for both ,,, what kind of book would it be if it dismissed somethin completely

i ordered book form amazon i think ... its not hard to get ., really good

[Niteflights]

Well I suppose that in an optikal shaped universe that things might appear to be better. I think I will give Mr. Jansen's book another read. In the meantime I wonder if there could be a more private forum for discussion of these matters.

sincere regards,
niteflights

[k-skywalker]

a more private forum sounds good to me ....