Possible Phenibut withdrawals...very scared

[drewcil]

Well, SWIM has posted in here once before about kratom. SWIM got past that, it was very hard...but SWIM completely stopped. Phenibut was a big helper in that respect. Now, SWIM has been taking about 7-9 grams of phenibut a day for almost 3 months. SWIM is not at all psychologically addicted, but is very scared of what could come about from the physical withdrawals, tremors, epilepsy, seizures, that is very scary. SWIM just now has started reading of some of the possible withdrawal symptoms that can come from this working on the gaba-b receptor. These are a couple of things that SWIM picked out of an old thread SWIM found on here. SWIM left the user names as to credit SWIY's posts.

Nicaine:
SWIM started out filling 00 gelatin capsules (~800 mg phenibut), and took them as a sleep aid off and on for ~2-3 months. There was also the occasional rec dose thrown in maybe twice a week (~2 grams or so). SWIM had no problem stopping or skipping days until about month 4 of regular usage. At first dopamine rebound appears in the form of early awakening after a few hours sleep. Another sign is feeling totally refreshed when you shouldn't (like after only sleeping 3 hours). Also, SWIM would have to take another dose (which takes about an hour to kick in to get back to sleep) At this point, SWIM was taking ~2-3 grams a day (most of it at night) for sleep. Later SWIM progressed to a 2-3 gram dose for sleep plus rec dosing during the day (total ~5 grams daily). Tolerance steadily increased for the next 3-4 months and SWIM finally topped out at 8 grams a day. This was when dopamine rebound was readily noticeable. SWIM dosed every three hours to avoid intense anxiety, and shaking. SWIM also had to wake up twice a night to dose to fall back asleep. This stuff seems to exert it's effect for only 2-3 hours when taken long enough or in high enough doses to produce dependence.

Then SWIM hit the wall and that is when the TSHTF. Doses that would normally hold swim for 3 hours and hold the dopamine rebound at bay did nothing at first, and then made the rebound worse. Symptoms are anxiety, shaking, twitching, and one time an intense dopamine rush (actually felt like ~100 mg adderall for about 30 mins but then quickly turned to intense anxiety, paranoia, and full blown panic attacks).

This is the point where SWIM took 20 mg of clonazepam to no effect. SWIM acquired some phenobarbital and immediately took 300 mg. Relief came in about an hour. SWIM went from 500 mg to 100 mg of phenobarbital in roughly two weeks. The phenobarbital completely eliminated the w/d symptoms. Yes barbs suck and barbiturate addiction is probably the worst addiction there is, but they have their uses. It takes time to build tolerance to barbs as well. SWIM had no problem stopping the pheno after two weeks.

SWIY mentioned not observing the stuff wearing off. SWIM had the same experience in the beginning. A dose taken the previously evening was felt well into the next day. At the very end, SWIM was lucky to have the effect last 3 hours, and then ultimately no effect followed by the opposite effect. For a "high", SWIM used anywhere from 2-4 grams in the first few months. SWIM would recommend starting on the low end at first though. SWIM rememebers SWIM's early rec doses as being pretty powerful. Swim couldn't walk straight, had zero social anxiety, talkativeness, etc. SWIM's first high dose made SWIM sick as hell though (~5 g). Swim vomited a few hours after the dose and felt like utter shit the following day. Same dose a day later and SWIM felt great *shrug*.

"Ion channels/seizures, eh... screw barbitures, sounds like Trileptal, Topamax, Depakote etc. would be better choices, as they're basically nonaddictive & have no pleasant qualities. Trileptal in lower doses is supposed to be fairly light on side effects."

SWIM knows nothing of these drugs mechanisms of action so SWIM won't comment. Phenobarbital isn't pleasant to SWIM but it was a godsend for getting off phenibut. If SWIY doesn't use phenibut every night to get to sleep and watches out for tolerance development, SWIY should be fine.

SWIM uses melatonin now, something SWIM used to laugh at.

...........SWIM has xanax at home, but is under the impression that it will not work since it works through the Gaba-a receptor. Should SWIM look into getting some phenobarbitral to kick this stuff. Will the supression of Gaba-b come back within a couple of weeks if the phenobarb is taken for that long. Will those types of side effects still be possible after only being on for a few months. SWIM has searched and searched and cannot find the answer to these questions. SWIM is pretty nervous, and would greatly appreciate it if some info could be handed down. SWIM appreciates it very much.

[azrael2600]

this is new, news to swim that phenibut addiction is possible.. swim takes phenibut anywhere from 3-12 grams a day depending on how swim feels. sometimes swim doesnt take it one day than another day swim will take it. swim has been using phenibut as a replacement for benzodiazapines (which swim is precribed for swim GAD,, General anxiety disorder). also as like the first post on this thread swim has also felt a dopamine,, amphetamine like rush sensation for like the first three weeks swim started taking the phenibut. swim personally knows that a narcotic effect can happen at high doses of phenibut,, it alsmost reminds swim of a cross between a low dose of Valium with a tad of GHB.
swim wishes swiy the best off luck though

[mbu37]

Swim who was taking xanax, up to 3mg a day, but not everyday. Swim tried Phenibut beginning at the 2 gram dose - swim got a good night's sleep. Upped it to 4 or more, frankly swim doesn't remember - it was in Jan. of 2006. Swim found it VERY unpredictable - passed out a few times which alarmed Swim's girlfriend but swim woke up with no problem. Since it was just for such a short duration, no problems with just stopping it.
One interesting effect, at the 2 g dose in the evenings, swim would have a nice sleep and wake up in the morning with, for lack of a better phrase, a feeling of mission - like really motivated to go to work a crank it out.

As for the passing out without warning at higher doeses - reminded swim of GHB - when it was still legal of course.

mbu37

[DavidAimes]

SWIM is also very scared, is taking between 6-12 grams a day and tolerance is very much being noticed as well as some side effects. SWIM started out using the same infrequent doses as stated above. HAs been taking it now for almost 5 months. SWIM wants to get off this substance but is scared of the withdrawals. SWIM notices that after 5-6 hours has to re dose otherwise horrible buzzing in the head and body occur, as well as anxiety. SWIM started taking this to prevent anxiety and lower the drive to want to drink alcohol, and it works well but now has presented new problems. Also noticed is a large amount of weight gain, mostly all in the stomach like a been belly. Phenibut has had amazing effects aside from the negative stated. If SWIM wants to ween himself off this what legal over the counter supplements can help?

DavidAimes added 1 Minutes and 20 Seconds later...

** Beer, not been belly

[drewcil]

Originally Posted by DavidAimes

SWIM is also very scared, is taking between 6-12 grams a day and tolerance is very much being noticed as well as some side effects. SWIM started out using the same infrequent doses as stated above. Has been taking it now for almost 5 months. SWIM wants to get off this substance but is scared of the withdrawals. SWIM notices that after 5-6 hours has to re dose otherwise horrible buzzing in the head and body occur, as well as anxiety. SWIM started taking this to prevent anxiety and lower the drive to want to drink alcohol, and it works well but now has presented new problems. Also noticed is a large amount of weight gain, mostly all in the stomach like a been belly. Phenibut has had amazing effects aside from the negative stated. If SWIM wants to ween himself off this what legal over the counter supplements can help?

DavidAimes added 1 Minutes and 20 Seconds later...

** Beer, not been belly

SWIM took it really as a a replacement for something else. Not good, but that's how SWIM was thinking at the time. In SWIM's first post, you can see some products that could be helpful with phenibut withdrawal. SWIM will say that it was not as bad as he thought it would be. SWIM used nothing at all, and came down about 1 gram every 3 days. SWIM doesn't know if SWIY is using 50 or 100mg capsules? If taking 50, SWIM would drop 50mg's every other day. Of course, everybody is different. SWIM does not want to scare SWIY at all, but everyone body works differently. SWIM personally thinks SWIY will be fine, but will just have to be very disciplined.

SWIM didn't notice any weight gain, did SWIY stop going to the gym/exercising, etc, when using the phenibut? If SWIY has any questions, don't hesitiate to contact SWIM throught private message. SWIM is a very understanding person, and is always willing to do whatever he can to help anyone.

[DavidAimes]

SWIM sure hopes it's not as bad as he thinks it will be, and SWIY's encouragement is appreciated! SWIM is at -12 hours with no phenibut. The buzzing is noticeable but not overwhelming. His head feels numb, like physically! He has tried to withdrawal by tapering down but didn't have the discipline, if the withdrawal symptoms become too bad he will take a very small dose. He uses powder not caps. Thank you again! I will post updates for SWIM.

DavidAimes added 1387 Minutes and 27 Seconds later...

SWIM is at -36 hours and is awake after sleeping for maybe 2 straight hours through the night. At -30 he felt it necessary to take a very small dose, approx 300mg 1/16th of a normal dose. At that time he was experiencing extreme anxiety and could not sleep after taking melatonin and tylenol PM. His head was itching and felt puffy, face felt puffy and hands were swollen. SWIM can compare this withdrawal almost exactly to how he felt when going cold turkey from alcohol after drinking 3/4 liters of hard liquor every day for a year. He says it almost feels exactly the same. Another strange thing during the night he felt extreme nausea and ended up throwing up, pure yellow stomach acid. This happened 3 times over 4 hours. SWIM wonders if his stomach had been working overtime when taking so much phenibut. Currently at -36 hours with one small dose 7 hours ago SWIM feels exhausted, achey. His plan is to try not to take any more small doses but at night will if is totally overwhelmed. Luckily, SWIM is not working right now so can devote his time to manageing this while not sleeping.

DavidAimes added 6 Minutes and 4 Seconds later...

Also, SWIM will have some clonazapam and will take some at night if sleep is impossible the next few nights.

[missparkles]

Sparkles was interested in this topic as Phenibut WD seems very similar in lots of ways to mild benzo WD. The insomnia, shaking and anxiety.
I looked at a of sites, and it was discussed there. Apparently reducing the size of the dose, and taking it less frequently can reduce these uncomfortable side effects of WD.

Someone also said that WD only last for 7-10 day maximum. Another remedy that seemed to help, was bromocriptine. So please, before even considering trying bromocriptine research the effect thoroughly. To be honest, Sparkles knows absolutely nothing about either drugs, although she is aware that Phenibut is used in weight training and by body builders.

Word of warning...never use any barbiturates unless you're under strict medical supervision. Doctors stopped prescribing these drugs in them in the 70s, and switched over to benzodiazepines as they were considered much safer than barbiturates back then. The problem with barbs, is it doesn't take long to become dependent on them, even used at a therapeutic dose, once a night as a sleeper. People who have stopped them abruptly have been know to suffer seizures, the same as the seizures they'd suffer if they too too large a dose in one go.
In the 70s lots of people ODd on barbs, so mixing these with other substances, would be insane.
Stay safe.
Sparkles.

[Guigz]

The pharmacokinetic of phenibut is very similar to GHB.
By analogical reasoning Gabapentin can be useful for phenibut WD.

Swim took phenibut for almost 6 month, 5/10gr per days, and stoped by reducing slowly the dosage. And using Zopiclone to induce sleeping

First week:10gr to 9gr.
Second week: 9gr to 8gr
Third:8gr to 6gr
Fourth:6gr to 4gr
Fifth:4gr to 1gr.
A couple of week with 1 gr.
From the fifth week 7.5mg of zopiclone to induce sleeping.

After 7 week stoped phenibut and zopiclone without WD.(Maybe 2 or 3ays of insomnia)

Reputation Comments on this post:

Clear, concise, with excellent info for the OP.

[drewcil]

Actually, I've spoken with a couple doctors since. Both said that all the stuff that I read was waaaaay overplayed. I'm already down to 2 grams a day, and feeling fine as of now. I haven't had any anxiety yet, though I'm sure it will come eventually.