Most harmful compounds

[Rush]

Was wondering:

how would you arrange in a scale the research chemicals from the safest to the most dangerous(side effects in short & long term,belived neuro toxicity,addiction etc.)?

and possibly explain why.


swim did not tried many compounds so he cant do something like that..

also, pure theorichal ipothesis about pharmacology are welcome, not only your monkey's experiences!

[Nagognog2]

Not counting the notorious PMA - which has been around too long to qualify as a RC - I'd say that 5-MeO-AMT is the most toxic and troublesome out there. PMA is strictly a poison. And many would argue likewise that 5-MeO-AMT is damned close to that.

The volume of reports backing this up would likely clog the server.

[Rush]

i see. also reading your old posts it seems you really hate 5meoAMT

but you mean its dangerous for its not very fun 'poisonous' effects(nausea,headache etc) or you think it damages the brain?

cause, from what i know, MDMA is neurotoxic, but the experience is far form the 'poisonous' effects of 5meoAMT.maybe mdma is more dangerous in that way.

[Nagognog2]

I'm not sure if anyone has done human studies to find out about 5-MeO-AMT having caused physical brain damage. For one thing, it would be unlikely one could find many people who would take it twice - without a gun to their head.

There are a few people who swear that very small amounts are great. But they are pretty rare and usually have to be back in the dayroom for headcount by 6:00pm. KIDDING!

The studies on neurotoxicity of MDMA are still sketchy. Especially in light of the government testing having substituted methamphetamine.

[joechip666]

Originally Posted by Rush

Was wondering:

how would you arrange in a scale the research chemicals from the safest to the most dangerous(side effects in short & long term,belived neuro toxicity,addiction etc.)?

For addiction potential, Methylone certainly qualifies
with an honorable mention for 2C-I.

For unpleasant and possibly deadly effects, Nagognog2 is certainly right about 5-MeO-AMT.

But these are only counting "highly researched" research chemicals. Among the more esoteric ones, who really knows?

SWIM has a hunch that 5-MeO-MiPT could have some pretty bad consequences when used in any sort of combination.

2C-C seems pretty benign to SWIM as well as 4-HO-MiPT (very intense but not threatening), but your mileage may vary.

[Forthesevenlakes]

What about MDPV? Certainly some folks seem to like it, but there seem to be reports of body loads which would suggest to SWIM that its at least somewhat harmful or toxic. Certainly, the dopaminergic rush from the drug would qualify it as having addiction potential, more so than many RCs.

As a side note, its interesting how many different types of compounds are covered by the label "RC" simply because they have not yet been well-studied in human lab rats. When SWIM first began reading about them, he assumed all of them would be similar in effect due to the nomenclature, but this is definitely not the case!

[darawk]

Originally Posted by joechip666

For addiction potential, Methylone certainly qualifies
with an honorable mention for 2C-I.

Are you saying that 2C-I is addictive, dangerous, or both? SWIM recently experimented with 2C-I for his first time, and though he did attempt to gather as much information as possible, he never read of anything suggesting 2C-I was chemically addictive, or had common serious side effects(which isn't to say that it doesn't, just that there are none known, that SWIM is aware of, other than a few mentions here and there of blood clotting issues).

EDIT: SWIM just noticed a mention of an interaction with Wellbutrin on wikipedia regarding 2C-I. Does anyone else think this might imply some sort of dopaminergic activity for 2C-I?

[renegades]

The worst is AMT, such a body load and a uncomfortable feelings, 5meo-dmt is second, because swim blacks out sometimes finding herself on the floor when she awakens - scarey. The safest is probably 2C-C which seems to have no unpleasant experiences, other safe compounds are the DOxs, 2c-b, 2c-i 2c-e 2c-n, 5meo-dpt, 5meo-dipt, 5meo-dalt, 5meo-mipt, mipt. Other more dangerous would be 5meo-amt, dmt, and mixing alcohol with a RC, or combining RCs.

[enquirewithin]

2C-T-7, 2C-T-2, DOB and 5 MEO-DIPT come to mind as being having been implicated in deaths, either snorted or taken rectally. I have even read an account of someone snorting 2C-C, which seems quite mild, and having convulsions.

Which RC's can really be considered safe? They are relatively unknown in effects. Any of them could kill you taken in sufficient amounts, but so can aspirin.

[Rush]

I thought(mine are only theories ) DOx compounds to be the most dangerous(lenght of exp, low dose,hallucinations), followed by alpha series(amt,5me,aet)

I've learned in this forum(thanks to alpha!) that 2C-x compound dont depletes the brain'sneurotransmitters, so now i consider them safer(compared to others, i mean)

DMT and 5meoDMT are the safest in my opinion...they are already in our brains!

[renegades]

Depends on swims scale. DOx can be dangerous only if swim does not have a scale, but all swims who do RCs own a scale. True, DOx does last 20 hours swim gets more bang for swims buck and yes swim does see hallicuinations but they are very friendly visions full of color, music sounds as though swim had just drop a 100-150 micrograms of acid. DOx is a remarkable compounds that mimic acid's hallicunations. I have down DOx (DOC, DOB, DOI) over 100 times now so swim concludes it is only dangerous if swim don't weigh it properly, true for the 2c-x and alpha series too. They all will f*ck you up if you take too much and swim would not have a pleasant time. Secret - Take 30 mg of Remeron 45 minutes before bed wash it down with a few beers and swim can fall asleep in the 10th hour of the trip and it does not matter how high swim is on DOx he will sleep eight hours.

[snapper]

Another vote for 5meoAMT. TFMPP deserves an honerable mention. Seems to swim the same little demon with a jackhammer is invoked to chisel at SWIMs brain with both substances. TFMPP,BZP,mCPP and mPP combination was probably the worst headache SWIM has ever experienced. It felt like SWIM's head was gonna explode! 5meoAMT was similar, though the frequent projectile vomiting and diarrhea distracted from the headache a bit...
Funny, but one of SWIMs favorites is AMT.

[joechip666]

Originally Posted by darawk

Are you saying that 2C-I is addictive, dangerous, or both? SWIM recently experimented with 2C-I for his first time, and though he did attempt to gather as much information as possible, he never read of anything suggesting 2C-I was chemically addictive...

SWIM has seen many anecdotal reports which would suggest that 2C-I is used much too frequently by some of its users. SWIM does not mean to suggest that it has the same sort of physical addiction potential of e.g. heroin or alcohol but rather seems to be mildly habit forming in at least some users. This may have been because of availability and accessibility issues (for a while, it was one of the easiest RC's to obtain without having great connections), so perhaps less experienced psychonauts gravitated toward and abused this one. It may also be related though to its stimulant-like properties and have attracted those with a propensity for stimulant abuse.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by Forthesevenlakes

What about MDPV? Certainly some folks seem to like it, but there seem to be reports of body loads which would suggest to SWIM that its at least somewhat harmful or toxic. Certainly, the dopaminergic rush from the drug would qualify it as having addiction potential, more so than many RCs.

ISO, mostly the latter. It's people taking it in high doses and/or for prolonged periods of time that puts them at risk... think I remember reading that the actual toxicity of MDPV is extremely low (this from its primary designer, posted on another forum).

P.S. clinical depression and even psychosis are non-trivial risks as well, but again closely correlated to MDPV's addictiveness and compulsivity. Going on high-dose extended 'runs' of any stimulant is likely to cause problems eventually.

[snapper]

MDPV is pretty non-toxic in reasonable doses. The comedown is unnoticable and the effects taper gradually. It is only with complusive use that is extracts a price, and even then less than other stimulants. not good due to addictive potential, but there is worse...

[Rush]

now I think AET is the most harmuful:it causes agranulocytosis!
also MDPV can be hard on kidneys and liver.

[genaro]

I heard many bad things about 5-meo-dpt

other than that, insufflated 2C's (especially 2C-T's) can go quite wrong (see below).

Oral 2C-T-7 Dosages (from erowid): Heavy dose is 25 - 60 mg

Insufflated 2C-T-7 Dosages (from erowid): Heavy dose is 7 - 25 + mg

insufflated 2C-T-7 cases of death:
Fatality no.1 at ~ 35 mg
Fatality no.2 at 30 -35 mg

as you can see, when insufflating the compound, death isn't very close to the highest end of heavy dose
....and half the maximum oral heavy dose is possibly a lethal dose if insufflated

A drug which caused fatalities whith a few 5 milligrams over the heavy dose is a very dangerous product to my opinion

Also note that heavy dose insufflated is 7 to 25mg, that's a HUGE difference, meaning that people react quite differently to the stuff, which makes it even more dangerous to dose.

ps: swim has experience with 2c-t-2 insufflated, and had freaky toxicity symptoms from it (severe pain in the whole body when suddenly vomiting violently, delirium, nerves extremities tingling..)


Conclusion is quite simple: do not insufflate 2C's

[nanobrain]

5-MeO-Pyr-T?

[Isochrist]

Yet another vote for 5-MeO-AMT. Horrible stuff.

5-MeO-DET doesn't have a very good reputation either, I believe shulgin described it as a "torture pyschadelic", and I've yet to see a positive report of it anywhere online.

[trip.more]

Swim would say 5-MeO-AMT is this best candidate, Swim isn't all that fond of 5-MeO-DIPT either.Swim would use these compounds again at low dosages.

[Nagognog2]

Originally Posted by Isochrist

Yet another vote for 5-MeO-AMT. Horrible stuff.

5-MeO-DET doesn't have a very good reputation either, I believe shulgin described it as a "torture pyschadelic", and I've yet to see a positive report of it anywhere online.

Re: 5-MeO-DET: You get Bongo's vote as well. And, of course the 5-MeO-AMT. Bongo has high respect for chemicals as he is a chemist. MeowDeath, as he refers to MeO-DET, is the only tryptamine he ever flushed down a sink.

[Ximot]

5-MeO-Everything pretty much except for the -DMT (well, somewhat nasty, still) and the -DALT (smooth and easy).

2C-T2, 2C-T7 (use carefully!)

[eltimmy]

The harmfulness of people putting the DOx compounds or even 5-MeO-AMT on blotter as "acid" cannot be discounted. That shit needs to stop right now.

Thanks to whoever on these forums gave the blacklight tip (LSD will glow under black light, these other compounds, or blank paper, won't) -- SWIM will find that very, very useful in the coming months. Safety first!

[Nagognog2]

That would be me. You're welcome. But please bear in mind that the blacklight longwave UV test will only show IF LSD MIGHT be present. If it don't glow - no go. If it glows - MAYBE it's LSD.

[fatal]

agreeing with nano 5-meo-pyr-T is some horrific shit. fatal RCs include 5-meo-amt 2C-T-7 2C-T-21 5-meo-dipt AMT(maybe?). i have also heard of a report of a 2C-E death that seemed highly questionable and a first hand real life report of someone dying from a methylone overdose. i also do know that 5-meo-amt has been responsible for several other near fatal overdoses. oh and there is also the one report of the unknown amount of 5-meo-dmt that did in fact stop the subjects heart. i can attest that such horrible reacctions are possible although i have never seen someone die from it even for a few seconds. i believe i was reading something up above about 2C-I being a bad one? thats a bunch of bullshit. the halo 2C-s are the safest out of them all. in the extensions and commentary in pihkal under 2C-B shugin does go into this somewhat.