Can you OD on Codeine?

[D.U.M.B]

Hey,
A friend of SWIM said there was someone in his town who overdosed on Codeine. And since codeine is a drug SWIM would use from time to time, SWIM was just wondering whats the dangers with it, would an overdose be caused by an allergic reaction or can it be dose related?

SWIM rarely goes over 200mg of Codeine but would be interested in knowing is there any known dose that can be lethal, SWIM likes to know his drug and what to avoid. SWIM wouldn't want to get too adventurous with codeine one night and accidentally OD

[robertone]

Yup, one can od (overdose) from codeine. Just one can od from drinking water -- really! The ld50 (lethal dose 50%, meaning that 50% of all test persons will die at that dose level) for codeine is 800 mg.

[Nagognog2]

Correct. Somewhere between 800mg and 1.2gm codeine is the LD50 for humans. But this does not take into account a person who has developed a tollerance to narcotics. A hard-core junkie could easily take an amount that would kill an average non-addacted critter.

[Alicia]

All opiates have the potential to cause overdose via respiratory depression. depending on tolerance of course

[D.U.M.B]

Thanks for the info, SWIM knows he will never go anywhere near the 800mg mark on codeine anyway.

[Forthesevenlakes]

If SWIM remembers correctly, morphine (which codeine is metabolized into, mostly) has a lower safety ratio than some of the more synthetic opiates, which increases the danger of respiratory depression a bit, since theres a smaller margin between an "effective" dose and a lethal one. So, while any opiate can be potentially lethal, codeine/morphine are of particular importance when it comes to gauging doses accordingly. But like Nagog says above, tolerance can quickly rise to the point where a "recreational" or maintenance dose for one user would kill another with less opiate experience. Hence SWIM's constant warnings about starting on low ends of the dose spectrum with these drugs.

[Tortoise]

The LD50 may be about 800mg, however, the nature of an LD50 is that it's an OD halway point. That means that you could OD on significantly less. Other factors need to be considered such as tolerance or lack of tolerance, body mass, variance of liver enzymes, other drugs and general sensitivity to opiods (i'm sure there are many more variables too). I have heard of reports of people ODing with 450mg of codeine so be careful!!

[Cman1732]

Jesus was tellin me that he really doesnt reccomend breaking 250-275. Jesus tells me that he has a freind that OD'd on 260, jesus just says be careful,and dont be dumb.

[Klaus]

Obviously Swim knows we cant have links posted here so a simple yes/no answer will suffice. Are there any sites/literature available where one can find lethal doses ?

Please feel free to pm.

Swim should have pointed out he is not planning on committing homicide or suicide at this moment in time

[Nagognog2]

The Holy Book of organic and inorganic chemicals is The Merck Index. Published by Merck & Company, Inc. of Rahway, New Jersey - it includes the LD50 for a great many molecules. As well as other invaluble information. If you only could own one chem. book, this would be your best choice.

[Klaus]

Thanks nagognog2

[Forthesevenlakes]

Although the Merck Index is invaluable, its also very expensive. If any lab rat out there wants to peruse it, but lacks the resources, try looking for it at the library (remember those?) Most public libraries would probably not have them, but university libraries are certain to. Just check in the science or chemistry section. Its surprisingly reader-friendly for such a large tome as well, SWIM remembers using it to prove to himself that cold water extraction would really work after reading about it online. He simply looked up codeine and acetaminophen, and deduced that the procedure would work based on their solubilities. Same goes for hydrocodone and oxycodone.

For those with the funds for such a book though, SWIM highly reccomends it. The book could literally save your life one day!

Another great option for finding LD50s is to run an online search for the MSDS (material safety data sheet) for the chemical one is interested in. Oftentimes the LD50 and other excellent facts will be available simply from this. Nowhere near as useful as the Merck, but it can help out in a pinch.

[ojos_de_brujo]

Swim looked up Merck index in the local academic library and saw it is also available on CD-rom. Interesting.

[darkglobe]

Hoho.... The Merck Index.

That book is Gospel according to: Pure Genius, personified.

Just a bit off-topic (well actually <b>on</b> topic), nobody in their right minds would go too far over 400mg anyway. That's the general ceiling of efficacy for codeine.... basically taking more than that makes fuck all difference.

[genaro]

from erowid codeine FAQs:
The LD50 (lethal dose for %50) is 800mg in the average person. Death from codeine, unlike most opiates, includes restlessness, seizures and eventually death from respiratory arrest. Some sources indicate that the lower-end LD50 may be around 500mg, so doses above 450mg are in the red zone.


Anyway, from perosnal experience, I think that doses over 300mg are too much (quite unpleasant) for an individual with no tolerance to opiates.
Mixing too much alcohol or depressant substances (downers, substances that make you feel drowsy/sedated on their own...) with codeine is also a good way to overdose on it (even if the dose of codeine taken was a safe one), so just don't.

[kapitan_oko]

I have done dosages like 900mg (with antihistamine I generation) and heard of doing dosages like 1200mg so the LD50 is much higher than 400mg. Of course I don't recommend that big amounts of codeine because is realy danger, the respiratory depression wasn't so scarry but It was hard to breath Codeine haven't so much respiratory depression efect like others opiates/opioides (like in. ex. morphine). Of course I have tolerance on codeine, and have done much stronger opiates and normal dosage of codeine is 450-500mg, but I prefer 600mg-700mg max. I have tried 900mg only once and I must say that 600mg-700mg is good enough ( of course everything with antihistamine I generation - Aviomarin that also boost the opiate efect). I remember days when even 50mg was a nice feeling and 100mg was very strong.... but now as I was saying min. 450mg is something that is woth doing and money.

[robshaka]

Originally Posted by genaro

from erowid codeine FAQs:
The LD50 (lethal dose for %50) is 800mg in the average person. Death from codeine, unlike most opiates, includes restlessness, seizures and eventually death from respiratory arrest. Some sources indicate that the lower-end LD50 may be around 500mg, so doses above 450mg are in the red zone.


Anyway, from perosnal experience, I think that doses over 300mg are too much (quite unpleasant) for an individual with no tolerance to opiates.
Mixing too much alcohol or depressant substances (downers, substances that make you feel drowsy/sedated on their own...) with codeine is also a good way to overdose on it (even if the dose of codeine taken was a safe one), so just don't.

Hmmm this has me worrried now. I usually drink 4 or 5 beers on 330mg of codeine. After about my 3rd beer i take about 120 mg which is just stupid because it hardly does anything, though i can't stop myself. So that's 450 mg + beer and sometimes as much as half a bottle of rum. Do you have any sources on the dangers of mixing codeine and alcohol?

[Klaus]

Sorry but that is WAY too much!

[Klaus]

Swim has a big tolerance but 900 mg is dangerous .

[acolon_5]

My SO has had sever allergic reactions to all the codeine opiates she has been legally perscribed...Hydrocodone, Oxycodone, and codeine. She had to be rushed to the hospital due to her throat closing up. She had rashes all over her body. (they started her on Codein, then Hydro and the Perc's all from having her wisdom teeth removed..they ended up having to give her darvocet)

[zera]

Sorry to bump this thread, but swim was doing some research on codeine and saw that there's actually a ceiling effect of around 400 mg, ie the liver can't convert more than 400 mg of codeine to the 10% equivalent of morphine at one time. Does anyone know the pharmodynamics of a codeine overdose then, because it seems like it'd be impossible for the overdose to be due to an excess of morphine. The only conjecture that swim can think of is that the unconverted codeine molecules themselves, which have weak opiod affinity, causes the marginal respiratory depression that pushes the overdosing patient into death. In which case the dose/response curve for codeine would be very sublinear, and make it a very safe drug.

Answering swims question isn't a matter of life and death, his curiosity was just piqued by the ceiling effect and it reminded him of this thread. If any swims out there have the answer it would be enlightening.

[Ale]

Originally Posted by zera

Sorry to bump this thread, but swim was doing some research on codeine and saw that there's actually a ceiling effect of around 400 mg, ie the liver can't convert more than 400 mg of codeine to the 10% equivalent of morphine at one time. Does anyone know the pharmodynamics of a codeine overdose then, because it seems like it'd be impossible for the overdose to be due to an excess of morphine. The only conjecture that swim can think of is that the unconverted codeine molecules themselves, which have weak opiod affinity, causes the marginal respiratory depression that pushes the overdosing patient into death. In which case the dose/response curve for codeine would be very sublinear, and make it a very safe drug.

Answering swims question isn't a matter of life and death, his curiosity was just piqued by the ceiling effect and it reminded him of this thread. If any swims out there have the answer it would be enlightening.

Of course it would be induced by the excess Codeine itself surely not by the converted morphine..and of course it's a very safe drug if it wasn't this safe you couldn't get it OTC as they do in Canada and the UK and other places across the globe..or order it online without a Rx.

[renegades]

This alkaloid is found in opium in concentrations ranging from 0.7 to 2.5 percent.
Oftenly Found in prescription cough syrip, and basically slows you down all around.
The good effects:
· High with dizziness
· Skin, Lips, Face feel numb
· Relieves pain quite well
The bads:
· decreased sex drive
· Urinary haulting or problems
Only knew one brotha who OD'ed on Codeine, man that's like OD'in on orange juice.

[darkglobe]

It bugs me how tolerance can possibly effect the LD50. I mean, too much of something is too much of something, right? I'm itching to learn how too much of something is ok if you're accustomed to it.

Could it be some sort of enzyme increase? More agonist/receptors? It's a mystery.

SWIM recently tried 450mg Codeine with 300mg Caffeine to see whether the respiratory depression was affected. SWIM learnt that this time not only was breathing slow and laborious, his heart rate was fairly fast and pounding.

I consider Codeine a relatively safe drug if used in moderation. As I once read somewhere on Erowid, it's up to the user to actively notice the more subtle effects of lower dosages. This will in turn give the user a better appreciation for the drug, and also a reduced risk of OD.

Sorry for the stupidly long posts as usual.

~Dark

[leigh1981]

This may be a really pathetic question considering swim has been addicted to codeine for over 10 years but how much codeine is in a t3. Swim has never really been on websites like this or researched her drug of choice - she just knows it does what she wants so she has always used it. She has had small period of a few months at a time of not using but mostly been using constantly since age 13. She usually takes 2-3 t3's at a time to get high but still 100% functioning and can still work. She doesn't do the extraction thing mentioned on here so too many pills make her puke with all the acetaminophen (sorry spelling bad). And when swiy say 900mg is the lethal dose in 50% of people to take it, is that 900mg in a 4 hour period? 6 hours? daily? Any answers to swims questions would be great - she is finding this forum she discovered very interesting as she didnt know codeine use was so popular - just always what she has done.