Ireland: DMT is dried mimosa illegal if powdered?

[Storming Heaven]

I dont want to say too much here but swim (really) is in trouble over Jurema ie mimosa hostilis bark. The police are prosecuting in Republic of Ireland swim can only assume that this is because it is powdered bark, the good people over at the dublin office of public prosections seem to be going down the "its processed cos its ground down" Any info regarding this could be hugely beneficial to swim.

[CrookedEye]

Don't talk to anyone but an attorney, and it can be used as a natural dye.. Best of luck with this..

[Abrad]

I presume they are regarding it as a preparation. This is similar to the reason dry mushrooms were regarded as illegal when fresh were not.
I would be interested in some more information on this, if possible.
Try to find a solicitor who is familiar with drug cases.

[Storming Heaven]

I have also figured out that mimosa is known under a different name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tepezcohuite it is used in many different skin care products across the world in fact it seems to be getting advertised as a bit of a wonder cure so if it is in some face cream surely thats processing too? Swim really appreciates any info regarding this as someone who most definatley isnt me wants to make a mockery of this prosecution.

[Abrad]

^^That's a completely different species of mimosa.

[Storming Heaven]

Mimosa hostilis is a perennial evergreen shrub native to the northeastern region of Brazil, and is found as far north as southern Mexico. It is sometimes also referred to as Mimosa tenuiflora in older literature.

Abrad it seems that it is known by both names so does my processing argument stand up? Check it out on wikpedia

[Alfa]

Wikipedia is not always a reliable reference. So the question is if Mimosa tenuiflora is mimosa hostilis?

[Storming Heaven]

Come on people swim really needs info on this for legal purposes. Any info regarding dmt naturally occuring and the law may prove helpful

[Storming Heaven]

Swim is looking for info regarding succesful or otherwise cases of dmt naturally occuring versions ie mimosa, chacruna etc. Does anybody know of cases worldwide whereby someone has been charged with possesion or possesion with intent to supply DMT by having or using these products. Swim needs solid facts on this or at least somewhere to look. Swim is based in Ireland and there seems to be zero precedent for such a case there so perhaps from a european angle or indeed any info that may be useful in fighting such a case. This is potentially serious shit so good helpful info only please.
Swim is not the type to take anything on the chin and feels a bit of a fight coming on and has six weeks to come up with a game plan so help urgently required

[podge]

Mimosa hostilis is legally available in headshops in ireland. It may be powdered but the DMT still hasnt been extracted for consumption. All swiy has done is crush a legal plant into powder....surely it is not worthy of being prosecuted for as it cannot be used to get high in its powder form. (unless they caught swiy with an MAOI containing plant too ) Swim is only using common sense here. Contact a drug laywer to be safe. And please keep us updated.

[Storming Heaven]

I think its the fact that its powdered is the angle that has been chosen this is speculation but based on info swim has ie powdered is processed

[Alfa]

This will be hard to answer since I'll bet that the Irish authorities will not be able to answer this one. DMT preparations are illegal in Ireland, because the UN convention on psychotropic substances of 1971 says so. But what is a DMT preparation?

According to article 1, section G, of the the convention:

“Preparation” means:
i) Any solution or mixture, in whatever physical state, containing one or more psychotropic substances, or
ii) One or more psychotropic substances in dosage form.

According to article 1, section E, of the convention:

“Psychotropic substance” means any substance, natural or synthetic, or any natural material in Schedule I, II, III or IV.

So: Any solution or mixture, in whatever physical state, containing DMT, or DMT in dosage form. Mimosa itself is NOT listed as a psychotropic substance.
I assume the mimosa was not in dosage form(capsules, tablets, etc). Right? If so then we can rule this out.
This leaves the question on wether or not SWIY's mimosa was a solution or mixture containing DMT.
The prosecution might claim the dried mimosa is a preparation containing DMT or a preparation OF DMT.

First of all: according to the convention(and therefore probably also according to Irish law), you can not make a preparation of an uncontrolled substance. Because 'preparation' means a preparation of a controlled/listed substance("psychotropic substance"). Mimosa is not controlled. Therefore preparations of mimosa can not be controlled either.

According to normal semantics, with the meaning of the word perparation according to the normal dictonary:

A. Drying is preparing
B. The mimosa is dried.
C. The mimosa is prepared.

If A and B are true then C is also true. The dried mimosa is a preparation of the mimosa. NOT of the DMT.

As far as Irish law, I am illiterate, but the Irish laws on this have been implemented solely because the UN convention demanded this. So the intention of these laws must be the same. This can always be argued, in case the National laws are inconsistent with the convention in any way. Nations do make errors.

This situation is a two edged sword for the government. Prosecutors will always go for the maximum to prosecute. This means that they will try whatever they can to get you prosecuted. Where the law is vague, they will take the position that the laws meaning is to the prosecutions favour. In this case this results in that if the prosecution wins, that preparations of plants containing controlled substances become illegal. This relates to a wide spectrum of plants used in many ways other than for psychoactive use. Plants so common as potato's, nutmeg, poppies, phalaris grass and many more. This can cause great problems in the consistency of the law and can therefore damage the imago of the courts.
It would be wise to notify the court that if they find dried mimosa illegal, then they find their potato's or nutmeg illegal as well. Their lawn and garden might consist of illegal plants. They can eat no more bagles with poppies on them. And more important: they will take this away from the people. And who are you to deny this information from the sensationalistic Irish press.

And then there would be even more problems: when does a a plant beome a illegal preparation?
When it's cut? When it's dried? What percentage of water may it contain? When it's ground? What if it gets squatched by accident? Like the remainders of a bag of mimosa bark.
And preparation implies an activity. So if any of the above preparations happen without human action, this would not be a preparation. Can the court prove that SWIY actualy did this? Can the court even prove that the mimosa was even actively prepared at all?

Reputation Comments on this post:

an excellent and informative post as always Alfa, like your humor too

[duncdunc68]

Swim bought some powdered Jurema at his local shop in London. He gave it to a shamen friend.

[Bikelbees]

Try finding a barrister who can spell it out as well as Alfa just did; and these guys will be charging thousands of bucks!

The UK recent cactus case has got to be the starting point were dried pieces were found to be legal. Its quite true of course that at the bottom of every bag of legal dried pieces there is quite a bit of powder, I can't see why intention to powder it could be possibly be important - it would be insane to suggest that the same substance could change from legal to Class A without any process other that friction. I guess the uncertainty in the minds of the police is because they still haven't wised up to the wrong interpretation of the word preparation as Alfa so clearly explains.

[sergei77]

What your lawyer needs to argue is:

1) The law it too unclear for this prosecution to go ahead, the case should be dismissed on the grounds of "abuse of process". Eveybody has the right to know in advance what is or isn't lawful according to the principle of legal certainty incorporated into British law by Article 7 of the Human Rights Act. The law regarding "preparation" and "product" is currently in a state of confusion. I have already sent you the legal papers relating to the dried mescaline cacti case which was thrown out of court in March at Kingston Crown Court. I don't see why the law should be deemed any clearer in your case, so for the same reasons, your case should be dismissed.

2) Should the court feel that the law is in fact perfectly clear, what you had in your possession is not a "preparation" because according to the precedent set in R. v Stevens (relating to magic mushrooms), the fungi had to be "altered by the hand of man" to put them "in a condition in which they could be used for human consumption". Powdered Mimosa hostilis is not in a condition in which it could be used for human consumption because the DMT contained within it is not orally active unless it is mixed with other ingredients. The procedure for activating the DMT contained within the powdered Mimosa is lengthy and involves a number of steps. Even if you had other ingredients used to activate the DMT (such as B. caapi) this does not make the Mimosa a preparation unless they were mixed and brewed.

See this letter from the Home Office which states that ayahuasca plants are only illegal once they are made into a brew (although even that is disputable):

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q...f?t=1180381689

Ayahuasca is not controlled by international treaties:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q...f?t=1180381758

[lulz]

Based on how long it took the DPP to process my court case, I'm assuming that you've still got a few months left before trial if you're from Dublin.

If you're from most other parts of the country, you're fucked mate. Invest in a good lawyer, beg steal or borrow if you have to.