USA - Barack Obama

[AquafinaOrbit]

Originally Posted by Nature Boy

I think Edwards is being overlooked purely on the basis of media influence in that he isn't gonna be the first black president or the first female president. He has more experience than Obama, is sounder than Hillary regarding many policies and has a pretty strong financial base. Under-exposure seems to be his critical flaw, something that can't be said for any other candidate left in the race on either side.

Very true. Personally I prefer Edwards, especially after that recent debate where Hilary and Obama were arguing nearly the entire time. I want a President that will fight for what they believe in, but I also believe you should try and have a bit of class as you are the poster child for this entire nation.

[whirlybird]

Why am I being reminded of a south park episode that invovled an election for the school mascot between a giant douche and a turd sandwich?

[Greenport]

I want him to win. I like the guy for what he represents based on the research I've done on him.

I'll settle for Clinton though. Just as long as we don't have another god-damned repub in office. If we do, I'm moving to Canada or Mexico.

[Handle]

Metomni
said:


"3. White people tell pollsters that they will vote for black people, but when they get into the polling booth, more primal urges surface and they opt for 'their' guy. Sad but true, they even have a name for it (couldn't be bothered googling to find out what that name is right now, but basically America is deeply racist on a fairly fundamental level). This means that the polls you mention - just like the New Hampshire polls, are worthless."

It's called the Bradley effect, but Obammy has been defying it, at least in the primaries, he was actually doing BETTER than polling had predicted, better than they gave him credit for.

If you go to the real source, the real reliable source, you will see that the results are not matching up with the predictions.

What was the huge message ever since Bush was imposed? "DOn't vote, don't bother, you can't make a difference"

They put a massive effort into stopping people voting, that is the official line.

The predictions being put out to us, are based on cynicism [not just good healthy skepticism, but evil, manipulative shit, telling people shit you don't believe to make them act the way you want, out of hopelessness and despair that you helped create]
and fear.

Fear of "revenge" on everybody, fear of race wars, and this stoooooooooooooopid idea that nobody could be any better than the Bushes of the world, it's just not true.

They are trying to scare you, people, scare you out of voting.

Think about it, what race war will there be if Obama gets elected? He won't just "appear" in the presidency out of the blue, he can only get there with the support of the MAJORITY of the American people. Why let your lives be rulesd by an increasingly anti social, self marginalising vocal and violent minded minority who are trying to scare you out of believing Obama could lead your country?

ANd where did this idea come from "We're so bad, how could anyone be any better?"

That's like saying this: the car crash was so bad without seatbelts, how could the addition of seatbelts have made the results any better?

See what I mean?

Yes, there CAN be a difference, I have heard Obama's rhetoric, it is proud to be in favour of peace, it is proud to speak out in favour of civil rights [yes, even for Arabs]
he is a man who had the integrity to oppose the war in Iraq, even when it was politically [and for his career] a very risky move.

And the repubs, or should I say "Rigpublican's" are proud of war, racism, hatred and a police state!

So you can say "Yes well, can Barack deliver on a good agenda?"

but we know damn well that the Rigpublicans have delivered on their fucking evil promises, ABUNDANTLY overdelivered.

But you hear a guy with giid ideas and say "How can I trust or believe that"

Point is, the two sides now have different arguments, they are proud of their differences, the choice could not be any clearer!

Vote Obama!

[zera]

*yawn*

Can anyone mention any difference between Obama and McCain that you see happening over the next four years? Seriously anything substantive?

I've asked this question to many people and no one can give me a straight answer. What will be different over the next four years now that Obama has won instead of McCain? And please no bullshit, feel good answers like "African-Americans will not strive for greatness" or "a sense of dignity has been restored to the whitehouse." Actual concrete differences...

[runitsthepolice]

He will raise taxes, he will not support Israel, he has questionable assocations with the president of the PLO and other terrorist organizations, his policies will redistribute wealth bordering on socialism, and most importantly he will do nothing to reform drug policy (yeah mccain wouldn't end the war on drugs either, swim prefers Bob Barr but can't stand Obama).

Panthers swim can't understand why swiy likes this guy. Swim wouldn't be surprised to see Israel move against Iran while Bush is still in office and they have the support of the United States.

Years down the road we will find out how he raised so much fucking money for his campaign. His contributions come in odd amounts like 47.24, indicating foreign exchange of currency. People usually donate in even amounts like 20, 50, or 100 dollars. It's very fishy but we won't find out for a while.

[Desertfox]

SO much of what was written in the post above is false. This is something i don't understand but people continue it. People can type/say anything and people will believe it without looking into any further or questioning the information jsut given to them. and somehow they say this is what were doing, we're not seeing the "real" barack obama and you have to look into it yourselves to find he's not who he say he is. But this is bullshit, he does support israel, and has had to meet certain people in his past who were not all mary and josephs but its not like he calls bill aires at the end of the day and is like "so how we gonna fuck america up?". He has associated with certain people that his job has required him to, but even the people he associated with aren't that bad and things they've said in the past are takin out of context and used against them(but thats how most politics work so no getting around that).

Barack went to Columbia University and Harvard and was the president of many political clubs in college. Mccain finished 4th to last out of a class of 896 people at his naval academy, he used to hold his breath until he would pass out during childhood while his parents fought so he didn't have to deal with it. And about him being a war hero, that misleading to. when given the choice to go back to america and he said no, it wasn't to save the other prisoners it was to save his own ass because early release meant also writing a statement basically saying vietnam is better than america and they treated me well. If he did this he would of been courtmarshalled in America and his career would have been over. Also not to mention soon after capture he mentioned he was a admiral's son and got special medical treatment none of the other pow's recieved. I am so glad we don't have another dumbass spoiled jock running the country again. All this info about mccain wasn't just made up either, much like the shit floating around about obama, its from mccain's own autobiography

[runitsthepolice]

Actually he got offered early release BECAUSE he was an admiral's son, but he refused because he refused to leave his brothers in the prison camps. Yeah he got special medical treatment alright, thats why he can't lift his arms above his head because they tortured him and damaged him permanently. Look like swim said he is for the Libertarian candidate Bob Barr. What exactly is false in the above post? Is it the video that the los angeles times has refused to release of him toasting a terrorist Rashid Khalidi of the PLO? Is it the huge amounts of money in his war chest from questionable sources?

Not to mention reverend wright, "God damn america" remember that? Member of his church for 20 years? Swim says come on.

[Coconut]

Originally Posted by runitsthepolice

Years down the road we will find out how he raised so much fucking money for his campaign. His contributions come in odd amounts like 47.24, indicating foreign exchange of currency. People usually donate in even amounts like 20, 50, or 100 dollars. It's very fishy but we won't find out for a while.

Every successful politician receives donations from "fishy" sources, be it property developers, businessmen, arms dealers etc. Foreign donations from the rest of the world who want to see America piss off and leave them alone should be the least of your worries.

[Woodman]

Yes, believe it or not, Obama IS actually BLACK!!!

wow!

...and now he's President Elect, so does anyone wanna discuss issues yet, or are we gonna remain transfixed on his blackness?

If he remains true to the pattern of behavior of other Liberal Democrat Presidents, it won't be long before he proposes a MAJOR tax increase, trying to sell it as a tax on the "Wealthy" or "Rich", Americans", when it actually affects most of the middle class.

(Hey, if you tax EVERYONE, including Bill Gates & Warren Buffet an extra $2,000 per year, Liberals call it "taxing The Rich"; nevermind that "The Rich" could piss that money away a thousand times over and not miss a penny of it, while the rest of us are still struggling just to find enough money to put gas in our cars.)

So, is Obama just another tax-&-spend liberal?
I hope not, but that remains to be seen.

[Routemaster Flash]

Originally Posted by Woodman

Yes, believe it or not, Obama IS actually BLACK!!!

wow!

Well, sorta - he's as white as he is black, isn't he?

Though he's a whole lot blacker than most Americans and the vast majority of the US political establishment, obviously. Best of luck the guy!

[enquirewithin]

Th election had one good result: McCain-Palin didn't get in.

[Panthers007]

I worked these last 8 years until my fingers were raw from typing and going through shoes like Imelda Marcos to see this day come. Unfortunately my planned celebration has been stolen from me.

[jon-q]

Originally Posted by Panthers007

I worked these last 8 years until my fingers were raw from typing and going through shoes like Imelda Marcos to see this day come. Unfortunately my planned celebration has been stolen from me.

Anybody that as been keeping tabs with panthers007 signature/avtar over the last few months,will already know which camp swiyou supported but what do you mean by "stolen from me"~unless this is a personal thing of course...
Regards.....q

[infekt]

Did you forget that McCain donated $44,000 to Khalidi's organization? That says a lot more than having dinner with him.

if any of it means anything at all. which it doesn't. guilt by association is retarded. stop watching hannity.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thx for lively debate, can you provide a source for this info?

[Desertfox]

Infekt beat SWIM to it. find another source for news other than fox news.
Almost every bill mccain mention said obama would not be a good president because he voted for this bill or associated with "that guy"(acorn, Iraq funding, bear dna research, etc.) mccain also voted for himself or supported.
And that commercial you saw of the reverend saying god damn america was taken so out of context and is obviously done so. SWIM doesn't see how thats a reason to think obama wouldn't be a good president because people he knows says shit not related to or about him.

[runitsthepolice]

Mccain is simply the lesser of two evils. How about simple economic issues like personal responsibility, a "hands off" economy, capitalism, lower taxes. Hopefully Obama is smart enough not to raise taxes on anyone in this time of economic crisis. The top 10% of americans pay 70% of the tax burden, the bottom 50% pay 2.9%. At what point is this redistribution of wealth? Swim is against socialism so between the realistic choices Mccain and Obama, the choice was pretty easy.

Regardless Obama ran a great campaign and Mccain ran a terrible one. The results reflected that clearly.

[enquirewithin]

Originally Posted by runitsthepolice

Mccain is simply the lesser of two evils. How about simple economic issues like personal responsibility, a "hands off" economy, capitalism, lower taxes. Hopefully Obama is smart enough not to raise taxes on anyone in this time of economic crisis. The top 10% of americans pay 70% of the tax burden, the bottom 50% pay 2.9%. At what point is this redistribution of wealth? Swim is against socialism so between the realistic choices Mccain and Obama, the choice was pretty easy.

Regardless Obama ran a great campaign and Mccain ran a terrible one. The results reflected that clearly.

I suppose you are all for massive handouts to the ultra rich, especially Paulson's friends? You'll be fine with both parties. What about about personal responsibility for bankers and CEOs-- or is just the poor who have to be 'responsible.'?

[zera]

Originally Posted by enquirewithin

I suppose you are all for massive handouts to the ultra rich, especially Paulson's friends? You'll be fine with both parties. What about about personal responsibility for bankers and CEOs-- or is just the poor who have to be 'responsible.'?

McCain sealed his fate the moment he voted for the bailout. Let's not forget that Obama voted for it too.

This illustrates the central problem with big government liberalism. In theory its suppose to work for social justice, progress and change. But a democratic congress enthusiastically voted for a trillion dollar bailout that will pale whatever social justice spending they'll spend as a token.

It doesn't matter if your politicians use flowery, inspiring language, put them in a position of power and they'll play special interest politics like anyone else. If you hold leftist/liberal political views and believe the government should help the poor and curtail the power of the rich, how the hell could you ever vote for a party or a person who passed this monstrosity of a bailout?

It seems like pure schizophrenia too me: calling corporate welfare, the drug war and the Iraq war evil, then getting elated at the election of a man who supports all of these things.

[gardis]

Table 1: Distribution of net worth and financial wealth in the United States, 1983-2001 Total Net Worth Top 1 percentNext 19 percentBottom 80 percent 198333.8%47.5%18.7% 198937.4%46.2%16.4% 199237.2%46.6%16.3% 199538.5%45.4%16.1% 199838.1%45.3%16.6% 200133.4%51.0%15.5% Financial Wealth Top 1 percentNext 19 percentBottom 80 percent 198342.9%48.4%8.7% 198946.9%46.5%6.6% 199245.6%46.7%7.7% 199547.2%45.9%7.0% 199847.3%43.6%9.1% 200139.7%51.5%8.8%
Total assets are defined as the sum of: (1) the gross value of owner-occupied housing; (2) other real estate owned by the household; (3) cash and demand deposits; (4) time and savings deposits, certificates of deposit, and money market accounts; (5) government bonds, corporate bonds, foreign bonds, and other financial securities; (6) the cash surrender value of life insurance plans; (7) the cash surrender value of pension plans, including IRAs, Keogh, and 401(k) plans; (8) corporate stock and mutual funds; (9) net equity in unincorporated businesses; and (10) equity in trust funds.
Total liabilities are the sum of: (1) mortgage debt; (2) consumer debt, including auto loans; and (3) other debt. From Wolff (2004).


sorry if this doesnt show up well just wanted to point out there is a good reason that 10% of people pay for 70% of our taxes. because they control more than 70% of the money.

gardis added 2 Minutes and 17 Seconds later...

ya that graph showed up terrible ill just post some of the actual article

[top]The Wealth Distribution

In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2001, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 33.4% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 51%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 84%, leaving only 16% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth, the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 39.7%. Table 1 and Figure 1 present further details drawn from the careful work of economist Edward N. Wolff at New York University (2004).


full article here http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesam...er/wealth.html

Reputation Comments on this post:

Well said!! Even though it's hard to0 see the graph

[infekt]

McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time. Under Bush the government expanded more than ever. Who's more of a socialist? Neoconservatives are not even true republicans. They don't stand for anything except the will to stay in power. Who is exactly the lesser of two evils here?

I'd love it if Bob Barr got in office, or Ron Paul, or whoever. But we are stuck with these choices for right now. It's not realistic, today. Everybody's got to play the game, and nowadays it is a losing game no matter what. Just how badly do you want to lose?

[Burnt]

^^haha yes that is quite stupid. What makes journalists and the media so fucking overtly dumb? Is it because the mass majority of humans who watch if are overtly dumb or both?

[Lunar Loops]

Originally Posted by Burnt

^^haha yes that is quite stupid. What makes journalists and the media so fucking overtly dumb? Is it because the mass majority of humans who watch if are overtly dumb or both?

I suppose everyone is looking for that personal angle to a story. This tiny village became a media circus for a few days. Any link will do.

One thing is for sure Obama's life has now changed beyond all recognition and will no longer be his own. Whatever his 'actual' views on certain topics, his actions will be directed by other considerations and nobody should be expecting the world to change overnight (or during the term of his office). The honeymoon will be short-lived, before the enormity of the task at hand takes centre stage. It's all a little bit cult-of-personality at the moment (and the man certainly has charisma).

Reputation Comments on this post:

I fear "caught up in the moment" will quickly evaporate and normal service will just resume.once the dust sett...

[Desertfox]

When a person's salary(news person) depends on them being dumb then they get pretty good at it. (Hannity, although I'm pretty sure he was dumb the second he pooped out of his mom's womb)

[abraham]

Just wondering if Nagognog2 has relocated to Cuba yet?