DEA using Trip Reports to classify Research Chemicals as Analogs

[renegades]

Here is the letter from the DEA to businesses across the USA.
The DEA is soliciting information on substances that are related in chemical structure to phenethylamine ...The Controlled Substances Act (CSA), lists certain phenethylamines as schedule I controlled substances. Some phenethylamines that are not controlled under the CSA produce central
nervous system effects that are similar to phenethylamines that are controlled under the CSA. DEA is requesting information to help determine the impact on business if these substances were to be placed
under control in the CSA.Individuals have published detailed methods of synthesis for substituted phenethylamines and have reported pharmacological effects based on user experiences. Law enforcement personnel encounter such phenethylamines, but because they are substituted differently than those listed or described in the CSA, they are not subject to direct
control in schedule I. However, some of these substances can be treated as schedule I controlled substance analogues if intended for human
consumption
Take notice of the sentence Individuals have published detailed ...pharmacological effects based on user experience. Swim thinks that once the get the responses back from business, they will make RCs CSAs by using trip reports found on the web instead of testing the drug on volunteers and monitoring the results. So any RC with a trip report detailing pharmacological effects will be classified as a CSA. Personally, swim would like the DEA to do tests on each RC to determine if there are negative effects on the body. Then if there exists some problem with the RC, detail them before making them illegal. Swim feels most RCs are safe and to declare something a CSA based on a web trip report is bogus.

[Nagognog2]

The problem with suggesting the DEA does human testing with RC's to determine effects is such: They'd likely farm such out to the CIA/Military and dose prisoners in secret jails and/or Guantanamo. Like they did with LSD. Suggesting a para-military agency has anything to do with medical testing is inviting a disaster in terms of human rights violations. Remember Dr. Mengele?

[CRUNK]

Their using our own websites against us.

[renegades]

Here is an example on how DEA classifies a RC as a CSA The classic ecstacy story:
In a research team led by Dr. George A. Ricaurte at Johns Hopkins University implicated MDMA as a cause of Parkinson's-like brain abnormalities in monkeys, suggesting that a single use of MDMA caused permanent and serious brain damage. These claims were hotly disputed by physicians, therapists, and other experts in the field, including a team of scientists at New York University. Criticisms of the study included its use of injection rather than oral administration; that this type and scale of damage (>20% mortality) would translate to hundreds of thousands or millions of deaths which had not materialized in the real world amidst extremely broad global MDMA usage; and, most importantly, that other research teams could not duplicate the study's findings.
On September 6, 2003, Dr. George A. Ricaurte and his team announced that they were retracting all results of their commonly cited and controversial study. The researchers said that the labels on the drugs had been somehow switched, and they had inadvertently injected their experimental monkeys and baboons with extremely high doses of methamphetamine instead of MDMA. The chemical supplier, Research Triangle Institute, has publicly claimed that the proper drug was supplied, and Ricaurte has yet to pursue them for their alleged error.
Yet the DEA used his initial findings to get the rave act passed. This is how the DEA operates. They develop the hypothesis first with a known outcome then begin the experiment. That is not the way to test RCs.
Also, Swim thinks they are going to pull the bad experiences from erowid to justify classfying an RC as a CSA. THey won't use any glowing experiences in their reports.
Swim read somewhere that there are only 450 people work for the DEA, hopefully one of them has enough common sense to ask for tests on primates of the various RCs to see if indeed they poise a health risk. Not just take a writers story of the RC, they might be lying to get people not to take the drug, might have over emphasized its effects or might have taken too much.
Taking user trip reports has its pitfalls, might not be very accurate, but the DEA will use them because it is the easy solution instead of doing the right thing and testing on subjects and actually determine if an RC poises a health risk. DEA just don't want people to get high even if it is in the safety of their own home and the RC poises no health risk. Party-poopers.

[Mona Lisa]

But even if reports sections were made private on forums such as this, sooner or later, a mole is bound to enter into the forums. For all we know, it may already be happening.

I've always believed it was only a matter of time before the DEA started clamping down on RCs.

[renegades]

Both parties makes addicts or occasional users are seen as criminals. The first drug law passed in the USA was written by a democrat Francis Burton Harrision which prohibited cocaine and opium. In 1937 a democrat FDR and a democratic congress prohibited marijuana, after only two hours of testimony before the committee, less than two minutes of testimony before Congress, and no debate at all before the Senate. A democrat in Congress Hal Boggs wrote and got passed legislation that set up the 1 year 5 yrear 10 year mandatory sentences in 1951 for drug use. A democratic congress in 1956 passed The Daniel Act which stiffen those penalities that were written in the Boggs act of 1951. In the 1060s a Democratic held congresss passed the
controlled substance act which set up harsh penalities for sellers. In 1973 republican nixon declared drugs public enemy number 1. Later, Reagan took the approach toward the user increaing jail time and fines for possession of the little amount of drugs. Both were passed by a democratic congress. !n 1993 Bill Clintion created a drug czar who then banned more drugs such as 2cb in 1995. 1n 1998, Clinton signed legislation from a republican congress banning ghb. Now our next president want to make all RC CSAs. So it doesn't matter who is running the country, the have Neanderthal mentatlilty making these laws. Oh if we pass a law we will stop drug use. HA, It hasn't worked and the two political parties have failed which raises the question maybe we should try a different approach. How about recovery centers not more jail. Hey what a thought, maybe treat people who have a drug dependency instead treating them like criminals.

Reputation Comments on this post:

informative timeline

[CRUNK]

I just think that if they bann all these research chemicals, it's just going to drive the manufacturing more underground. Cause let's face it, the knowledge is out there. Anyone can look up how to make AMT, or how to make DMT (which seems like it's pretty easy). I'm sure with all the people who love 2-CI or AMT or any popular research chemical there will be somebody there to make it. Let them bann it, it still wont be dead.

[Nagognog2]

That's a large part of the problem. Once these are banned, they will move underground if there is enough demand. At least being sorta-iffy legalish - there is a kind of quality-control to the aquisition. If zcy sells bunk and it poisons people, the word can be spread far and wide within an hour. If it moves underground - that ability will be largely lost. And the result of this will make these things far more dangerous than they are at present. In effect - the US government may well be responsible for causing the deaths of people while trumpeting how they are protecting us all from ourselves.

Just a quick look at the heroin laced with fentanyl stories recently bare this out clearly.

By the by, AMT is a controlled (schedule I) substance in the USA, as is DMT. And DMT can hardly be called an RC. It's been around for thousands of years.

[renegades]

This is what the DEA considers a CSA pulled from Dea document
"Illicit Uses:
to induce illusions and hallucinations"

So, swim thinks if the RC is used to induce illusions and hallucinations it should be a CSA according to the DEA guidelines. They just don't approve of any substance that causes these effects in users. As an adult, even in the safety of swims own home with an RC that has not been shown as harmful, the DEA in the near future would consider swim a lawbreaker even though there is no victim involved. Swim guesses this is the guidelines how each RC will be evaluated.

[snow child]

dea has used all kinds of things that we have done in the eye of the puplic{online}. but if we ever what that to change then we have to stop crying about what they do and fight back put out so many thing{copounds} at once that they would be in court trying to figuer out. Who was high on what the @#$! were at what time, yeah for the poeple that have big balls.
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does any one know what happened to eplosion girl?
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"americans the new ginna pigs"

[snapper]

Nagognog2's point is well taken. SWIM avoids illegal drugs because SWIM never really knows what SWIM is getting. That is what has made RCs so attractive. The variety is nice, but it is the fact that one knows what one is taking that makes them so great. No guessing as to dose, additives, age, adulterants, etc. As soon as most if not all the trypts and phens are made illegal, SWIM will probably stop using entirely.
It is very sad, but it is true that the US is at war and likely plans on victimizing other countries in the future, as well as victimizing its citizens by forcing the children of the common man to be drafted and slaughtered for no other reason than to bolster a bunch of greedy, pea-brained egos... kids in the US are encouraged to play violent video games, watch violent programs and movies and become trained in team sports. Education in the US has been taken to the lowest level possible (grade boosting and curriculums in most schools are embarrasing), and drugs which may cause people to question establisment policies or think creatively have all been demonized. This way, there is a huge pool of sheep to draft and murder, already trained to follow directions, use weapons and kill people.
The rest can be jailed and force to labor for the war effort, for 50cents a day. God bless America - we have come so far !

[AntiAimer]

Yeah Smurf has actually heard of them trying to take sites like erowid down. Pretty sad.

[renegades]

Really, the Government tried to close erowid, do you have any more info on that? Stupid Government. It is one of the very few sources that discuss how much an RC should be used, so this helps the Govt, by keeping down the ER cases. Hell, swim am sure they are getting most of their trip reports proving a substance induces illusions and hallucinations from erowid in their sneaky selfish desire to make RCs into CSAs. Swim am really afraid now since we have a democratic congress. Democrats love to pass laws that control our lives because they believe in big government. Most drug laws are and have been passed by a democratic congress not a republican congress. Since GW been president 6 1/2 years ago, the republicans congress made only two RCs, 2ct7 and 5meo-dipt a scheduled drug and this out of literally hundreds of RCs being offered by vendors. So you might not like W, but he sure hasn't wrecked my rc party plans whatsoever. Thumbs up for W. Who knows when the DEA will eventurally make them RCs could be a few years by the time the DEA gets all the paperwork done to present to Congress.

[Nagognog2]

Maybe people should write letters - unsigned - to their Democratic Senators and Congresspeople that they were voted in last November BECAUSE they use unsheduled psychedelics and saw the truth.

[renegades]

Maybe someone could write a template letter which we all could use to plead our case to the democrat leadership. Ugh guess who is in chairman of the judicial committee Chairman: Chuck Schumer, D-New York.

You are wasting your time. Schumer is a staunch opponent of drug use: An example:
The New York Democrat yesterday proposed spending more than $1 billion over five years and passing tougher laws to fight a nationwide surge in gang violence and drug dealing.

Schumer unveiled a staff report that shows a rise in violent crime and drug arrests across New York from 2000 to 2005 as an example for the entire country.

The report indicated a 10 percent rise in violent crimes and a 20 percent jump in drug arrests.

So we have another politican who believes giving the DEA more money is going to solve the problem

With Schumer in control, RCs will be CSAs soon. However write to Schumer It can't hurt.

[renegades]

Well those letters should be sent to Chuckie Schumer of NY who heads up the Judicial committee. However this is the same guy who wrote and passed legislation that steered an additional $1,000,000 to the DEA to fight drugs. He believes in big governement who must pass more laws to protect people from themselves because they are too stupid to do the right thing. People who voted democratic has put us in a slipperly slope, whereas the republicans believe in less laws and that government should not pass legislation controlling behavior. That is why only 2 RCs out of 100s were scheduled. All over the world, countries like Britian and Ireland has passed outlandish drug laws outlawing all RCs. now with the democrats in control I expect a lot more RCs to be outlawed. Remember they are doing this to protect ourselves from ourselves. They believe government being involved in all aspects of our life.

[renegades]

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/show_image.php?i=dob/dob_blotter__i2005e1710_disp.jpg
Yes this is DOB blotter. First it was DOC, then DOI now DOB. Why put it on blotter unless your intent is to sell it. This just ruins it for everyone else. Even though DOB is scheduled I, this could make all DOXs scheduled if they keep showing up on blotter.

[Alfa]

I wonder if anything ever happened with these letters from the DEA. I also wonder if they have used internet trip report in court cases.

[runitsthepolice]

Swim doubts that internet trip reports could be used as evidence in a court of law.

[Alfa]

The format of email address where evidence in operation web trip. i.e. tripzone@hotmail.com was evidence in court of law to prove that the intent was drug use, and the research chemical was therefore a analog. People went to jail for that.

[dslexic1]

utter BS. When Swim first learned he could order RC's, shortly after his first foxy experience, He was astonished. So as soon as he pooled up enough money to make his first order, he placed it with the wrong vendor. He was young and didnt do research. Aparently the DEA had commenced operation Web Trypt, right before swim ordered. And the piggies must have left the site running. After he learned about web trypt he thought that RC's were a thing of the past. a few years pass by and swim buys DOB blotters in LA that were sposed to be LSD. Somehow he learns that Theres still a market. But swim was so screwed on street shit that he never wanted to spend the money on the RCs. He was always thinkin better buy some beforei its to late. So for the last few years things were going so smoothly swim just assumed that they were gonna let the whole RC thing slide. NOW this shit. Anybody care guess as to how long we got left. Im guessing/hoping 3 years.