Using this stuff for sleep.

[RasonUK]

Some questions to any swiy's who use/used this suff for sleep.

First Swim would like to say he is completely drug free right now, his neurochemistry is f*ed up from chronic amphetamine therapy based on a wrongful diagnosis, he is taking legal action. He has lost Emotional memory and emotional sensation due to brain atrophy. If he undoes the damage he may use drugs again, otherwise he doesn't see the point in living and so will not use drugs and may well die...

Questions about GHB:
How much do swiy's take for sleep?
How do swiy's experience the dopamine rebound?
Do Swiy's find your body/hand-eye co-ordination is still alittle dodgey when Swiy wakes up?
Anyone notice their skin gets a huge health boost?
Best way to take for minimal sideeffects and maximal sleep?

Cheers,
Swim.

[sciencedj]

Something is wrong with this post. SWIM can't put his finger on it...but something is off.

Why would SWIY, who has been hurt by amphetamine treatment, want to use GBH for a sleep aid?

GBH has horrible withdrawal symptoms ( SWIM has learned this fact from past posts).

Why don't SWIY use a non-addicitng substance to get sleep. SWIY could use ambien, rozerem, lunesta, melatonin, L-tryptophan, or 5-HTP?

SWIM is trying to say why risk the effects of GHB? There are plenty of non-addicting meds out there.

L-tryptophan (1000-1500mg) will put you to sleep, replenish the levels of serotonin in your brain, and is all natural (5HTP will do the same). This may actually help your neurochemistry problem.

Why is SWIY so intersted in GHB as a sleep aid when it is addicting and causes severe withdrawals?

http://www.projectghb.org/files/addictionfactsheet.htm

GHB ADDICTION AND WITHDRAWAL

GHB—IS IT ADDICTIVE?

Internet dribble to the contrary, gamma hydroxybutyrate (GHB) is an addictive drug. Withdrawal can be severe and prolonged. Yet recognition and treatment of GHB addiction/withdrawal isn’t readily available. Knowledge of GHB by the public and in the fields of law enforcement/medicine is typically limited to its abuse as an intoxicant and use as a rape weapon. GHB addiction is characterized by around the clock dosing (every one to three hours, day/night, with heavier doses at night to achieve sleep). Addiction can develop in a few weeks. Use for four to eight months is common among the 600 GHB addicts who have come forward for help through the GHB Addiction Helpline via www.projectghb.org. Others have been using for up to ten years, making it impossible to know at what point they became addicted.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________________

EDIT:

Besides the fact that GHB MAY be dangerous and addicting , it is also against the law. Why would SWIY go through the trouble of always having to risk freedom to obtain a schedule I drug for DAILY use? The punishments for being caught with a schedule I drug are harsh.

On February 18, 2000, the "Hillory J. Farias and Samantha Reid Date-Rape Prohibition Act of 1999" (Public Law 106-172) was signed into law, legislating GHB as a Schedule I controlled substance. GBL was also regulated under this law as a List I controlled chemical. Illicit use of GHB analogs may now be prosecuted as Schedule I substances under 21 U.S. Code § 813.

GHB analogs are treated as controlled substances under Federal law only if intended for human consumption. According to 21 U.S.C. § 813, "a controlled substance analog(ue) shall, to the extent intended for human consumption, be treated, for the purposes of any Federal law as a controlled substance in Schedule I." Thus, authorities can prosecute drug offenses involving GHB analogs in the same manner as offenses involving GHB. (See 21 U.S.C. § 802(32) for the definition of a controlled substance analog(ue).)

SOURCE: http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs1/1621/index.htm

SWIY states "He has lost Emotional memory and emotional sensation due to brain atrophy". GHB is not the answer to your sleep problems.

Experiences with GHB addiction:

Another
A patient taking about 181 g/day GHB for 4 months, for its euphoric and anxiolytic effects (Addolorato et al, 1999). On discontinuation of GHB, the patient showed a withdrawal syndrome consisting of high anxiety levels, tremor, sweating, tachycardia and nausea. Complete disappearance of drug withdrawal symptoms was achieved within 2 hours in the first day of treatment with diazepam 20 mg orally administered...
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/178/2/183


A 43-year-old male reported using GHB for 2.5 years. The effects of use were reported as feelings of relaxation, inner well-being, increased appetite and short, restful periods of sleep. Starting doses of GHB were difficult to quantify as it is generally taken in liquid form. The patient said his dose was originally 15 ml irregularly, but had increased to 30 ml every 3 hours by the beginning of 1999. The patient reported withdrawal experiences such as feelings of panic, terror and anxiety, often with a tremor. Other autonomic features included diarrhoea.
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/177/2/181


In other cases pentobarbital had to be used to control withdrawal signs:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=11719746

[MrG]

Oh my good god.

It's happened.

Trinka is winning.

Gather round folks, there he is. Look.

Yes, him.

sciencedj

That's him right there.

I know . . . . He even had the fucking nerve to post some of her vile propaganda bullshit and claim it as fact.


Check your facts before you post in these forums.

I suggest you try here:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24311

Then, when you have taken it all in, try here:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26372


Xyrem is Sodium Oxybate is GHB

projectghb is nothing more than pure bullshit made out to appease the feds and make money for Trinka's retirement. What the fuck does she actually know about GHB anyway yet she claims to be an expert.

Oh my god, I am so fucking wound up right now. Just thinking about the fucking misinformation that woman spouts. So. Fucking. Angry.

Must. Go. And. Calm. Down.


AAaaaaaarrrrrgh!!!!!!!!!!!

[MrG]

Ok, Ok.

I have calmed down now.

Please accept my apologies for the little outburst it's just that so many people, especially those whose careers benefit from perpetuating the myths about G, spout Trinka's bullshit as fact without bothering to actually check if any of it is valid or based on proper research.

When I initially began researching G I too had come from a background based on the crap the media tries to shove down our throat, only to find that, on the whole, it is nothing more than scaremongering bullshit.

Let's look at the way she words her arguments on the page you quote about addiction:

GHB—IS IT ADDICTIVE?

Internet dribble to the contrary, gamma hydroxybutyrate (GHB) is an addictive drug.

Look at how she immediately seeks to dismiss *all* internet based G info apart from the "facts" that she supports by referring to it as "internet dribble" (btw Trinka I think you meant to say "drivel" not "dribble"). She uses this particular dismissive method throughout her website as a way to avoid actually having to back up her stance with a fact based counterpoint.

She also likes to make grand, supposedly factual, statements in very authorative tones without actually referring to scientific research as proof to support them.

The use of flippant statements, combined with upper case shouting only serves to try and convince the reader that she is all-knowing and all-seeing about G.

This is GHB in a nutshell. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE THINGS PEOPLE ARE CLAIMING, THAT GHB IS GOOD FOR YOU, AND THAT IT IS NOT ADDICTIVE????? And what about narcolepsy????? What about the law?

Too much upper case and far too much overdone punctuation is rife on her site.

Even going so far as the usual cheap shot against recommended safety in handling the base materials in G:

One Internet Recipe Website says: "Safety: Wear gloves and safety glasses at all times. If any of the reagents or intermediates contacts the skin, wash well with cold water." AND: "The author is not responsible for any consequences arising from the synthesis and use of GHB" AND "To store it I use a mason glass jar with a plastic cover. I draw the poison logo on it " - [bold and italics added for emphasis]. Now, why would you want to drink this?

Look at that statement where she hypes up the base ingredients (a method much favoured by the media) purely because a chemist has urged their safe handling - Adding an acidic compound to a base alkali does not make some sort of super toxin! It usually justs balances out their PH ! But why let a level headed presentation of information get in the way of attempting to scare the bejesus out of the reader.

Of course the author is going to state that he is not responsible for any consequences arising from the synthesis and use of GHB. Why would he claim otherwise?

He draws the poison logo on his storage container simply to try and prevent someone stupidly chugging back on it, not because it is toxic.

The poison is in the dosage

This is true for nearly every single fucking thing that goes into your body.

Interesting comment:
City, State: La
Date: July 14, 2002

Comments:

I was at the hospital the other night because my friend od'd on G there are street words for this also when ever the person passes out and drools on themselves and has poor muscle control it is said that person is in the "G hold." After the person goes into a comma type thing and begins to throw up and have poor breathing then they are in the G hole most of the time you say this when they are near death.

There are not many user comments on Trinka's site due to her trying to make sure that no-one actually has a chance to counterpoint her bs (see how she tries to, rather pathetically, dismiss the use of Xyrem in treating cataplexy in narcoleptics in another section of her site). She does, however, prefer to fill her site with bullshit like the above.

Trinka, if you are going to continue posting scaremongering crap at least get your facts right. There is no such thing as being "in the G hold". The actual phrase comes from the use of Ketamine and is about being "in a K hole".

All I ask is that ppl UTFSE, search the web themselves, do lots and lots of reading and try, at least try, to base their opinion on hard fact instead of using the lazy journo way of simply opting to SCARE THE FUCKING CRAP OUT OF YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <==--- See.

Anyhoo, now we are *way* off-topic.

Reputation Comments on this post:

points for debunking and extra for re-doing it calmly so the message may stick

[MrG]

my responses in red

Originally Posted by sciencedj

Besides the fact that GHB MAY be dangerous and addicting , it is also against the law. Why would SWIY go through the trouble of always having to risk freedom to obtain a schedule I drug for DAILY use? The punishments for being caught with a schedule I drug are harsh.

May be, might be, possibly, urrr I dunno.

In the UK GHB is a class C substance, the same as mj. Possession is more like a slap on the wrist type of punishment.

SWIY states "He has lost Emotional memory and emotional sensation due to brain atrophy". GHB is not the answer to your sleep problems.

He is using a colourful expression for a non-scientific fact. If his brain had atrophied he would, in fact, be dead. Why is GHB not the answer to his sleep problem when under pharmaceutical conditions (Xyrem) that is exactly what it is prescribed for.

Experiences with GHB addiction:

Some nonsense about being addicted to GHB after just a month and messing with alcohol at the same time? None of these posts have any scientific backup, just a bunch of attention seeking twaddle. One guy reckons he was doing 50-60ml of GBL rectally?!!!! Impossible as GBL is strong mucous membrane irritant, never mind the silly dosages being mentioned.

Another
A patient taking about 181 g/day GHB for 4 months, for its euphoric and anxiolytic effects (Addolorato et al, 1999). On discontinuation of GHB, the patient showed a withdrawal syndrome consisting of high anxiety levels, tremor, sweating, tachycardia and nausea. Complete disappearance of drug withdrawal symptoms was achieved within 2 hours in the first day of treatment with diazepam 20 mg orally administered...
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/178/2/183

181g a day?!!!!! That is over 7g an hour without taking into account any time for sleep yet that sort of single dose would indeed knock you out cold for a number of hours. Rec use is on average 1.5g dosed multiple times over the course of an evening, hardly likely to reach double digits, let alone triple.

A 43-year-old male reported using GHB for 2.5 years. The effects of use were reported as feelings of relaxation, inner well-being, increased appetite and short, restful periods of sleep. Starting doses of GHB were difficult to quantify as it is generally taken in liquid form. The patient said his dose was originally 15 ml irregularly, but had increased to 30 ml every 3 hours by the beginning of 1999. The patient reported withdrawal experiences such as feelings of panic, terror and anxiety, often with a tremor. Other autonomic features included diarrhoea.
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/177/2/181

Again, 30 ml every 3 hours. Ok take your dose, fall asleep, wake up, take another, fall asleep, take another, fall asleep. etc. etc. etc. Ridiculous.

In other cases pentobarbital had to be used to control withdrawal signs:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=11719746

A US government website? Are you new here?

Look, pharma doses of Xyrem (GHB) are 4-9g dependant on the physiology of the patient and are used to induce sleep. It is usual for the patient to redose after four hours in order to get the full 8hours of sleep. So you are looking at 8-18g of GHB being consumed *every* night ad infinitum. *Proper* scientific research (see the links to the Canadian SBD report, not the biased government crap spouted by the USA) shows absolutely no withdrawal issues and this site:

http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/sleep-...-questions.htm shows no problems when a number of patients were asked to go cold turkey after a year.

Are you going to claim that recreational doses somehow are going to leave the user wracked with intolerable withdrawal pains that the pharma patient magically doesn't experience?

[psyki]

In response to sciencedj and MrG, citing specific references online from people who are strongly pro or anti-GHB is not very productive to the topic at hand.

There is plenty, PLENTY of unbiased anecdotal evidence that prolonged or short-term but extreme GHB or GBL usage most definitely can and inevitably will cause physical withdrawal symptoms upon stopping usage. And by prolonged I mean using around the clock (AKA 24/7 usage) for more than a few days. Symptoms include panic, anxiety, tremors, sweating, tachycardia, and insomnia lasting for 2 days up to 2 weeks depending on length of usage. Granted some of the data cited above references impossibly large doses but if you read enough reports it is easy to determine what a realistic dosage is (1.5-4g GHB or 1.5-3ml GBL, typically). 30ml GHB every 3 hours (as cited above) is perfectly reasonable if the concentration is only 1g/10ml.

So to answer RasonUK's questions:

How much do swiy's take for sleep?

For sleep a reasonable dosage would probably be about .5g more than your recreational dose. Recreational doses can vary widely between person to person, anywhere from 1.5-4g being the typical range.

How do swiy's experience the dopamine rebound?

The severity of the dopamine rebound is directly related to how much GHB one consumes over time. Small amounts of dopamine in the brain, such as one would get after just a dose or two of GHB have generally "positive" effects, such as increased awareness and alertness. If one has been dosing 24/7 for more than a few days (this varies between people, sometimes it can take longer), this dopamine rebound becomes more and more uncomfortable. People who dose around the clock for months at a time almost invariably report the more severe withdrawal symptoms listed above when they stop.

Do Swiy's find your body/hand-eye co-ordination is still alittle dodgey when Swiy wakes up?

Sometimes hand/eye coordination can be out of whack after waking up from a GHB-induced sleep, but mostly if one wakes up before the GHB has completely worn off. This is assuming you are not dosing 24/7.

Anyone notice their skin gets a huge health boost?

Never noticed any increase in skin health. In fact if anything most people report that use of Na-GHB dries the skin due to the high sodium intake. Potassium (K-GHB) may not have this effect.

Best way to take for minimal sideeffects and maximal sleep?

The ONLY way to minimize the side-effects/dopamine rebound from GHB is to carefully control your intake. SWIM would say that 1-3 doses per day would work well to keep the withdrawal symptoms down, as long as you give your body enough time to recover from the dopamine rebound. For sleep SWIM would recommend .5g more than your recreational dose 30 minutes before laying down. If necessary you could re-dose if you wake up in the middle of the night, but most people are able to sleep through the night after one dose, as long as they are not dosing 24/7.

Hope that helps

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Helpful response
	Excellent post

[Nagognog2]

This thread seems to have taken a detour and landed in The Twilight Zone.

CLOSED.

(read at your own risk)