Betel Nuts

[Benga]

Originally Posted by Dr_H

I found this on the net on a site about coca.


The leavesmust be chewed with a little bit of the chemical "lime" (in English). This is not "lime juice," of course, but the chemical lime, also known as calcium oxide. It is sold in the marketplace, alongside the coca leaves, in the form of little stones. The stones come in varying shapes (usually like a miniature cigar / turd), a small ball, or a spiral), & varing shades of light grey to dark grey to charcoal black. They make the stones by burning plants (banana tree leaves), then mixing the ashes with water & solidifying them.

The lime / calcium oxide is called "cal" in Spanish. The native Quechua- and Aymará-speaking Indians call it by three different names (at least in and between Cuzco and La
Paz): "llijta," "llipta," and "llupta". So take your pick.

Anyway, what you do is put a little bundle of the leaves into your mouth (about 6 at a time), chew them a bit & wait until they are completely wet with saliva, and then nibble off a tiny bit of llipta with your front teeth. (Just a tiny bit!!! If you injest too much you'll get nauseated & vomit.) The llipta/llijta/llupta activates the small amounts of cocaine in the leaves. Lime-rich materials such as burnt seashells or a cereal are used to promote the separation of the leaf's active alkaloid.



So there are a few choices of lime to use and I think the important thing about it is it's ph.

yes it is about PH, raising it your mouth. Betel you don't usually swallow the saliva but spit it out, the orange stains you see on the streets in betel chewing countries.


on lime. It's limestone paste, which can be found in asian markets specifically for betel chewing, mine comes from Thailand. If it dries it becomes rocky. Limestone paste does cause burns in the mouth if you're not salivating enough !


The south american alkali is made from ashes, the one i have is black and looks like charcoal.


Another option, much safer though the taste issue is debatable, is sodium bicarbonate aka baking soda. more convinient to use and works fine for coca or betel, point being that you raise your saliva's PH so that the alkaloids freebase into your mouth were they are absorbed by the mucosa.


for Pan Parag and other ready made pan you don't need to add anything, it's all in the bag already, place chunks between cheek and gum and enjoy. Usually you spit the saliva everyonce in a while, which is not something you would do with coca .


b

[Alfa]

This is a very interesting topic as many researchers claim that betelnut is carcinogenic (causing cancer). In contrast millions of people chew betel nutdaily and have been doing so for centuries.Note that betel nut is also often mixed with tabacco, enhancing the carcinogenic effect betel nut is said to have.

[acolon_5]

I chew betel on a daily basis. I have found that the prepackaged chew are very weak, although they taste real good. I buy the uncrushed, unsliced, whole nuts. It takes a little while to kick in but they definately give me a boost that coffee or ephedra cannot match..There is euphoria without the jitters.....I always chew it like dip...chew, park, chew, park.....I swallow not only the juice but also when the nuts are 100% pulverized, I swallow them as well. It does take a little while to kick in..it also takes a few chews before I feel the euphoria...the stimulation happens much faster. I usually chew only a gram or two (guesstimated) or a few pinches.....I really like it and it has taken place of the two cups of coffee I used to drink every morning. I have heard as others have mentioned that either an acid or base added with the chew helps with absorption...I have tried raw betel with lime and it's not too bad.....Again the Pan Parag to me seems MUCH weaker and I have to chew 5x the amount to get the same effects as the raw.

[sands of time]

So whats the verudict on this stuff? Can you chew it without baking soda or lime, or is something needed to help absorb the alkaloids?

Alcolon 5, what do you add to the betel nut and how long do the effects last?

[dclacomb]

Originally Posted by Dr_H

I had pretty severe chemical burns from the lime to my cheek and gum
and I'm willing to bet that it is the continued chemical burns that
would probably cause this condidion.


I sent my suggestion to the editor of the article above and will post their comment if they respond.

I'm pretty sure you used too much lime. A little goes a long way.

[Dr_H]

dclacomb, There really was no question, I said I used too much lime.


sands of time
Yes, you need to add the baking sodaor lime to make it work.


No, acid will not work, just base. You are causing a chemical reaction in your mouth (on purpose).


42it is Wrote "It is safer to make a tea from the nuts". It is safer because more of the alkaloid is destroyed in the acid environment of your stomach, and it does not have a long enough contact with your mucous membrane (your mouth) and you have not reacted the alkaloid with the base to form the freebase of the alkaloid. If you were to basify the tea and then drink it, the base would react with the acid in your stomach and cause alot of gas and would probably up set your stomach. That is why people don't usually swallow the saliva.


By the way the editor of the article (http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20050115/bob10.asp) never did respond to my letter.

[acolon_5]

I don't add a thing. I chew until it is gone and then I swallow the nuts. Then I add some more....I really couldn't tell you how long a standard dose lasts but I can keep pretty up for most of a day with only 6-7 grams (maybe less) I think that swallowing the nut mush may really increase the effects. I sometimes add a little cinnimon and sugar...and once I made a really nice tasting mixture of sugar and almond extract. I let it sit for 24 hours and it tasted great and was MUCH easier to chew....I usually have to bang the nuts up with a heavy hammer before I chew them.The finer the better.


It does take me a few quids berfore I feel the effects, I also don't chew but a medium pinch at a time.....I am in fact chewing them as we speak (I do every day at work to keep me awake and alert).


I really like the stuff....alertness w/o the jitters + a little euphoria on the side.

[Benga]

Originally Posted by Dr_H

42it is Wrote "It is safer to make a tea from the nuts". It is safer because more of the alkaloid is destroyed in the acid environment of your stomach, and it does not have a long enough contact with your mucous membrane (your mouth) and you have not reacted the alkaloid with the base to form the freebase of the alkaloid. If you were to basify the tea and then drink it, the base would react with the acid in your stomach and cause alot of gas and would probably up set your stomach. That is why people don't usually swallow the saliva.

Certainly true ! some Idiot Who Isn't Me once tried doing a 10g concentrate extract of coca leaves and added a reasonable amount of baking soda. Boiled it down, gulped.


ended up an hour later with instant purge, total liquid diarea. Not fun at all. Beware too much baking soda in your stomach, unless you want to clean your intestines out !!!


just a final note, it seems bicarb really works well for this purpose, and is less dangerous. Limestone paste is stronger, but hard to use without causing some sort of mucosa damage.


b

[Benga]

Originally Posted by acolon_5

I don't add a thing. I chew until it is gone and then I swallow the nuts. Then I add some more....I really couldn't tell you how long a standard dose lasts but I can keep pretty up for most of a day with only 6-7 grams (maybe less) I think that swallowing the nut mush may really increase the effects. I sometimes add a little cinnimon and sugar...and once I made a really nice tasting mixture of sugar and almond extract. I let it sit for 24 hours and it tasted great and was MUCH easier to chew....I usually have to bang the nuts up with a heavy hammer before I chew them.The finer the better.


It does take me a few quids berfore I feel the effects, I also don't chew but a medium pinch at a time.....I am in fact chewing them as we speak (I do every day at work to keep me awake and alert).


I really like the stuff....alertness w/o the jitters + a little euphoria on the side.

here you can get dried slices, and fresh or dried leaves as well. will be buying some next time i go get somespices and ramen(ah the joys of living in a chinese area,). Cost like 1 euro for 200 grams or so.I also have some betel powder that i'd once ordered from an ethnobot. shop, never tried it as i recall reading that actualingestion was dangerous...


maybe you should try the powder with some limestone paste or bicarb, if you haven't. it really should potentiate effects. For coca, it's really compulsary, the buccal extraction doesn't work without adding an alkali. If it does you have some bad ass coca leaves !!

[Benga]

Originally Posted by dclacomb

I'm pretty sure you used too much lime. A little goes a long way.

oh yeah !! limestone paste can be mean.


somepointers : try toonly addlimstone pasteto your quid once you're salivating enough !!!


try to put it inside (the quid, leaf, teabag whatever...) of a properly lubricated, huh, moist quid, so that the paste you smeared won't be in direct contact with your mucosa.


move it around if it's burning ! don't keep it in one place and keep you saliva in there so it won't burn.


or you can use sodium bicarbonate.


A handy trick for people dealing with fine pulverized powder : use some fine medical gauze, dump the plant material in there (eg the 5 teabags you tore open), add some bicarb, put the thing in your mouth and get it wet (5 minutes), then add limstone paste.


and remember to keep it in your mouth, with saliva, long enough. Most people spit it out after like 10 minutes. for coca, a 10gram cocada, the distance you can walk with "active coca" is 40 / 45 minutes. So the quid in there for at least 25 minutes. not very social, because the saliva soon inhibits speech...


don't really know betel absorbtion timeline. For coca it's simple : numbing effect : quid is working. No more numbing, quid is dead.


cheers


b

[Vedic Alchemist]

Okay, What you are talking about "Supari" we use as after dinner mints,
haha. Betel with lime paste is used in what we call Pan or Pan
Parag. You may notice some feeling of well being but nothing
muche else, it helps with digestion. You can not get good fresh
Pan in the US, except in some big cities in the US wtih Large Indian
population, Chicago check out Devon straight, and ask Pan Che?
The best is Tomacco aloo pan, which is the betel nuts with tobacco, the
strongest tobacco is 300, so ask for tomacco aloo pan, bo 300, they
probably won't understand you, but everyone eats the kind without
tobacco, I'm talking little kids, 3 and 4 years old, they even chew
tobacco, you are basically wasting your time with it, kind of like
gum/after dinner mint for us, but to an unexperienced user it will
produce a good feeling of well being. For the whole nuts, chop
them up then pop them in your and chew on them. Hope this helps.

[Benga]

Originally Posted by Vedic Alchemist

Okay, What you are talking about "Supari" we use as after dinner mints, haha. Betel with lime paste is used in what we call Pan or Pan Parag. .

the original poster was inquiering about ready made pan masala packets, you know the dried little chunks you pop in your mouth, not fresh pan.

[Vedic Alchemist]

Oh ok, well no use in using Pan Masala, unless you want to defeat poor breath and indigestion.

[blindpanda_eric]

Damn.. I have to say, anybody considering trying Betel Nuts.. do it. Pan Parag(sp?) is very nice.. euphoric.. feeling.

[Benga]

Originally Posted by blindpanda_eric

Damn.. I have to say, anybody considering trying Betel Nuts.. do it. Pan Parag(sp?) is very nice.. euphoric.. feeling.

I posted some photos of betel products for those of you interested, same section of the forum.





b

[sidewalkpharmacist]

would these be available in the spice section of a grocery store

[Benga]

Originally Posted by sidewalkpharmacist

would these be available in the spice section of a grocery store

well it depends what kind of groceries stores you have where you live.
Betel products are rarely used in cooking, so most is sold for chewing. Which means that you should try grocery stores which sell goods from the betel chewing area, ie from India to South-east Asia.

Here we can get betel and betel products in asian supermarkets which have a special "betel section", or in south indian grocery stores.

good luck