GHB taste...Salty = BURN?

[entro]

SWIM made GHB with the recipe listed here: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26198

SWIM said she dabbed a sample of the resulting product to her tongue and said it BURNED more than it did taste salty. The burn dissipates within seconds, but she said it seems like it would be much worse if an entire dose was taken. Is this burn normally described as the 'salty' taste that GHB has?

If not, is it likely that there is too much NaOH in the solution?

[MrG]

It certainly should not burn. Did SWIY use the *exact* measurements? (Be honest, did SWIY have gram scales for the NaOH?)

SWIM just went and stuck his finger into his recent batch and put it on his tongue, it just tastes salty.

[~lostgurl~]

GBL tastes like a solvent and when not mixed with enough of any onther drink it will burn (tongue, back of throat, etc). As MrG said GHB tastes salty and does not burn.

[free]

did you check the PH?
there is some unreacted NAOH in there.
add some gbl, stir very hard and test the ph. should be about 7

Reputation Comments on this post:

proposed solutions. Not just stating the facts.

[Pomzazed]

Heat is needed in starting the conversion reaction (basified lactone cleavage). The burning indicates the remaining hydroxide ion in moderate to high concentration. This is dangerous! Do not forget to check the pH of the product after the conversion, it should, at least, not more than 7 or 8

[English_T]

It burnt because she left it in a caustic state!! Get a Ph testing device. universal indicator or make your own with cabbage juice. Every year there are people who make this stuff incorrectly and end up taking it themselves or supplying it to unsuspecting innocents and thus cause caustic burns to the Gastro-Intestinal Tract, not good, painful and potentially life-threatening if swelling of the throat occurs.

What is soooo frustrating about this, is that is such an easily avoidable situation. Buy some Universal Indicator (10 packs of 20 strips are approx. £3 ($6)) or make some strips using red cabbage juice and kitchen towels - there is plenty of info on the NET on how to make the strips and of the subsequent Ph scale (I think taking the initial colour produced by the cabbage as neutral is ok and if this colour does NOT change, or changes very little, then you are A - OK - but please double check ALL info first)

The LINK to the GHB synth looks fine. GBL and NaOH react on an equal molar basis (1 mole of GBL reacts perfectly with 1 mole of NaOH). Therefore, 1 mole of GBL with a molecular weight of 86.1gm will react with 1 mole of NaOH with a molecular weight of 39.99gm.


This said, the density of 1ml of gbl is 1.12gm.

So, if you wanted to react 100ml of GBL = 100 x 1.12 = 112.0gm
To which one adds: (112 (the 100ml gbl density) X 39.99(NaOH molecular weight) ) divided by 86.1 (the molecular weight of GBL) = 52.02gm (the weight of NaOH we need, in this case, for an equal molar reaction with 100ml of GBL)

To make up the NaOH solution, 80% of the total amount of GBL of water is used: 80% of 100 = 80 80ml of distilled water will be used, in this case.

NB: The directions that follow require LABWARE as the temperatures are wide-ranging and sudden. Regular glassware will NOT cope with these temperatures and will crack/explode. Pyrex should be OK.

Make up the NaOH solution (in a pyrex beaker or jug) by gradually adding and stirring in the NaOH into the 80ml of distilled water. This will create an exothermic reaction and the water will get very HOT (90 celsius).

Now, add ALL of the very hot NaOH solution to the room-temperature GBL (the GBL should be in a labware flask, beaker or pyrex jug of at least 4 times the volume of the GBL, in this case 100ml of GBL requires at least a 400ml vessel)

Nothing appears to be happening.....visually, one has two distinct layers, the NaOH solution on the bottom which appears as a white liquid and a clear liquid on top of this which is the GBL. To get the reaction going, the GBL needs to aquire a little of the heat from the NaOH solution, this can be encouraged by occassional 'swirling' the flask or by occasional stirring (once every 30 secs for 10 secs or so). After approximately 4 minutes the reaction will begin. You must be prepared for this, it can be a little unnerving the first time. All of a sudden, the GBL and NaOH have reached the point of no return and will begin to boil of it's own accord and temperaures will be HOT (up to 200 c) you may need to carefully pick the flask up and give it another swirl to ensure all of the reactants are mixed but the reaction itself will last no longer than 20 or 30 seconds and that's it, it is over! You have GHB and it should be at a perfect Ph neutral. You will have a viscous clear,neutral liquid which will remain extremely HOT for some time. DO NOT add water to this until the temperature is below 100c or the water may vaporise INSTANTLY and you will experience nasty burns. WAIT for it to cool down to 50c or so and then add 4 times the total final amount of GHB. In this case, one will have found that the 100ml of GBL is now 160ml of GHB. So, 4 x 160ml is 640ml = 160 + 640 = 800ml.

Now, finishing touches, add some BLUE food colouring to the GHB and filter through a coffee filter into a suitable CHILDPROOF bottle/bottles and BEFORE sealing, give one final check of the Ph. If all is good, put a little Smiley face or something on the bottle, label it CAUTION! etc and store in an EXTREMELY safe place! Children die every year through taking regular legal medications, however, this, at relatively small doses can have fatal effects particularly on the smaller bodies of children. It would be something with you for the rest of your life and you will NEVER, EVER be able to forgive yourself. It will destroy your life, and that of your family and you will probably receive a prison sentence to boot.


Adult Dosage: 10ml + (Begin with 10ml and 'find' your own appropiate dose)
Remember this is the SODIUM SALT form of GHB and as such is a little salty, but that is all. Mix with a little fruit juice or a little Neat Ribena (good mix ) and enjoy! You've worked, relatively, hard and desrve to kick-back a little!!

NB: Ph is EXTREMELY important!!! Check, check again and check again. Being safe is all important.

[MrG]

Quick note there T, if one were to wait until the reacted GHB drops to 50c it will have turned into a large white slab and will take forever to break down into the water and dilute.

The alternative, which still ends up with *some* of the mixture hardening as the temp drops to just below 100c, is to then add hot water to dilute. This will stop any sudden changes in temp for the glass container and avoid the problem mentioned above.

[English_T]

Yes, you are correct Mr G.

It will thicken and turn into one solid slab which can be broken down with hot water, like you said. I'm not sure at exactly what temperature this will occur at....It happened to someone I know, but he had left it for a week and then added water and with gentle heating everything was as good as.

I chose 50c as a rough guide and it is perhaps wrong (UPDATE: It is fine at 50c) , I mean, do not wait until you start seeing crystals forming - add the water while it is still very hot but not too hot. The problem with adding cold distilled water to the g does not seem to cause instant crystalising and does seem to mix extremely well. If the viscous G is over 100c, you will get instant boiling of the water and if it is way above 100c, you will get vaporisation, instantly, instant steambath, if you will.

You can 'test' the temp by putting a drop of water into the viscous g with an eye dropper or sucklike and if it doesn't boil away or turn into steam you are fine. Normally if you wait 10 mins or so after the reaction, one will be absolutely fine. Or, use a thermometer.

BTW - I've read and enjoyed a lot of your posts Mr G! Nice one! I am not usually over at this forum, I usually spend time in the chemistry section and at a couple of other forums but it is good to see there are some good people putting out positive, helpful info. There were times when you really could not be sure what you were getting in the way of info. There was some dangerous stuff out there which missed some seriously important points and the wrong info in inexperienced hands can be bloody frightening!

This still can be the case and ALL info should be double checked at a minimum but things have moved on a lot through sites such as these. Long may free information reign!

[MrG]

Cool. Cheers for the props.

It is imperative that the information is there and easily accessible to disuade people from continuing to take GBL as they are afraid of the synth. Often the fear is from finding lab style instructions or misinformation about sodium hydroxide.

GHB's clean entry into and out of the body is a far cry from having to make the body work to convert GBL itself.

The nature of the high is, according to research, much heavier and longer lasting than GHB. For instance, the body will keep converting GBL long after the user has passed out. This creates a very dangerous situation whereby, even if the user is brought around from their deep sleep, they are invariably much more intoxicated than they were when they passed out.

Sometimes ending in the usual feeding frenzy from the media when careless people end up doing regretful things.

[English_T]

No worries!

Yeah, true, labtype instructions with molar ratios etc can be a little hard to grasp (but worth it!) and can cause confusion so putting everything in Laymans terms is a good move because people are going to attempt this reaction and should have accurate, safe info.

BTW - a test was done by a friend of mine - adding room temperature dH2O (distilled water) after 5mins caused no problems whatsoever, it mixed perfectly and no 'forced crystalisation was seen. Apparently, this was done on:
25ml GBL
12ml NaOH(measured 12ml in a measure and took it as good - it is meant to be 13.1grams (but ml was used rather than grams) )
20ml of dH2O

The reaction performed perfectly. Ph was neutral whilst hot and at room temp neutral also.