A discussion on Hydrocodone

[somuchtosayx]

I would like to start a thread that has lots of various information on hydrocodone all in one place. Please forgive me if any of the subject matter is redundant, I am merely trying to consolidate the information. Feel free to add to below topics. I ask everyone for their input on these matters:

1. How quickly did SWIY's tolerance develop and with what frequency of use?
2. Did grapefruit juice and/or Tagmat really work for potentiating effects?
3. Theraputic vs. Rercreational doses and/or experiences.
4. Your feelings on SWIY's use.
5. Additoinal comments
6. Any tips on quickening the reduction of tolerance?

Swim first had hydros this time last year. SWIM aquired about 20 7.5/500. He started with one and then in about three days he upped it to 2 at once and then within a week it was one and a half followed by another every hour with a max of 4 per day. The supply was gone within two weeks, and sWIM was happy with the effects, the buzz remained about the same throughout the couple weeks. Then in the summer he aquired a few 5/500's and took one and a half for a decent buzz.
In october he took one 7.5/500 and felt nothing so he followed it with another after 2 hours nad went to bed with no effects. Half way through the night he woke up buzzing and coudln't fall back to sleep. SWIM thinks its because of the acidic meal he had at dinner before ingestion of the pills. A weel later he decided to try on 7.5 again and felt an OKAY buzz. The next day it took 2 7.5's to get a buzz, then the suply was gone.
Now in november, about a month of no opiates he took two 100mg propoxy-n. This was a different more energetic buzz, not as enjoyabe to but definitely somehting. Then two weeks later he took two 7.5's and noticed a tolerance.
December, doctor prescribed 40 50mg Tramadol and went through the bottle in 2 weeks. Not a nice buzz, way too energetic and not too enjoyable. Bad comedown. Then a week later he took 20mgs of hydro and felt real nice. Two days later 20mgs did nothing and he needed to take 20mgs more to feel a nice buzz. SWIM is deeply saddened about his tolerance and his apparent habit. The next day, he regiments himself with 15mgs followed by 10mg every 45 min for a total of 35 mgs hydrocodone. Definite difference from the previous night's intesne high from about 45mgs.
SWIM knows he definitely needs to quit for at least a month to lower his tolerance. SWIM would liek to lower it to 5mgs for an theraputic dose and avoid recreatinal use all together. He suspects he would use about 5-7.5 mgs twice a day twice a week, so about 4-5 pills a week. In february do you think 5mgs would be an effective dose? SWIM is very unhappy about having let himself get addicted to the pills and abusing them recreationally rather than to treat his chronic pain due to arthritis in the spine.
Overall since last year, SWIM only had about 20 experiences with hydrocodone and the intensity and length have significantly descreased as well as a unexpected rapid increase in tolerance. SWIM just wants to stop recreational use and use the pills for theraputic use only.
How long does it take tolerance to develop in patients who use 5/500 twice a day on an every-other-day basis? And at what rate does the tolerance increase? For example would he up the does 2.5mgs every month or longer?
ABOUT POTENTIATION... SWIM tried twice to potentiate his experiences with grapefruit juice an hour before the first time and an hour after the second. In both scenarios SWIM took antacids and didn't notice any effect. In fact he believes that the experience was lessened by the grapefruit juice. Maybe he'll try again sometime.
Please contribute any relevant information on the subjects covered. Also, maybe the moderators can consider making a seprate Section for hydrocodone like there is for codeine, opium and others.

[paranoid_android]

I have used both antacids and the antihistimine Chlorpheniramine Maleate to potentiate and lengthen the buzz. It works well. I took two 4mg chlor's, not at once, as well as a total of 60 mg hydrocodone, also not all at once but over a couple hours. I was nodding hard.

[Forthesevenlakes]

Be very careful mixing antihistamines and opiates. They can both potentiate one another's respiratory depression effects, and thus can be very dangerous! SWIM would expect to get very sleepy and possibly pass out on this combination, doesnt seem like a great time to him. But if one is going to attempt this, stick to VERY LOW doses!

[paranoid_android]

Yes, due to swim's weight he has a rather high natural tolerance to opiates and as such has to take more than a normal person's dose to achieve the same effects.

[Psych0naut]

Anithistamines do indeed give a more sedated feeling to the opiates, but they also supress any nausea very well which is a big advantage.

[Forthesevenlakes]

The nausea suppression is useful for many people, SWIM was more warning against taking large or so-called "recreational" doses of antihistamines with opiates. Use of large doses of antihistamines is bad in itself, even without throwing opiates into the mix. However, SWIM thinks that, say, 25 mg diphenhydramine with opiates (or a related reccomended dose of antihistamines) wouldn't be overly dangerous. Just keep in mind that antihistamines could potentially increase the sedating effects of opiates, so if one is to attempt this, make sure to be in a place where one can go to sleep, and have a buddy there to check and make sure your SWIM is doing fine.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good information.

[DrMuffy]

If one gets nausea alot from opiates, SWIdr would suggest either: (1st choice)Take a couple hits of marijuana or (2nd choice) take a non-drowsy Dramamine (II). Both of these suggestions can be much safer than the use of other anti-histamines while on opiates since the cause less respritory depression/drowsiness. Of course when taken in the right dosage, anti-histamines can also be a safe and effective way of eliminating (sp?) opiate-induced nausea.
As for grapfruit juice, it does potentiate most people's opiate experiences. It works by inhibiting an enzyme in the liver which helps metabolize alot of opiates and other pharmaceuticals (As said in many other threads).

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good information.

[csharpprogrammer]

SWIM has a long history with hydrocodone, and it is his drug of choice. SWIM first started his Vicodin use by taking three Vicodin ES before he went to sleep, not knowing what to expect. SWIM woke up in the middle of the night, feeling like he was having the best orgasm of his life! SWIM will NEVER forget waking up that night. He was only awake for a few minutes before nodding back out, but that was how the addiction started. SWIM always tells any of his friends who are considering buying some Vikes, just to get "fucked up", not to. He always tells his friends, "If your going to do it, don't just get one pill, thats a waste of money... start with 3-5, but no more then that." SWIM fell in love with the euphoria that Vicodin provided. After about 3 months of maybe once or twice a week use, SWIM was up to about 120 mg of hydrocodone bitartrate via a CWE. After all of the pills SWIM has taken, he can't say he was ever truly "addicted" or dependent on the hydrocodone, that is why he loved it so much. To this day, SWIM has never payed for a Vicodin, because he is always coming accross them for free.

SWIM is not to sure, but he feels that any SWIY who takes one 5 mg hydrocodone pill, does not know the drug. SWIM thinks anything less then 10 mg, is a waste, and is not a recreational experience. This is strictly SWIM's personal opinion and experience, but everyone's body reacts differently, so if 5 mg does it for SWIY, then thats AWESOME! But if SWIY is taking 5-7.5 mg, just to get a little "buzz", then SWIM thinks SWIY is wasting the drug. SWIM is probably getting far off subject, but he doesn't feel like he can get his point accross in text, so he'll just leave it at that.

Some more advice for hydrocodone users:
Most hydrocodone pills are a combination of hydrocodone bitartrate and acetaminophen. Acetaminophen is toxic to the liver in high doses. Make sure you research your drug before you do it! Too many of them little pills could contain enough acetaminophen to kill you! Make sure you know how much acetaminophen you are ingesting, and use a Cold Water Extraction(CWE) if necessary. Have fun and stay safe, here is an experience report from one of SWIM's friends experience report manager program:


Report Date: 03/26/06
Report Description: 120 mg purified hydrocodone, 1400 mg carisoprodol
Events:
Time: 20:15 | HR: 66 | BP: 144/73 | RR: 0 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: None
Time: 20:20 | HR: 62 | BP: 137/73 | RR: 0 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: None
Time: 20:25 | HR: 64 | BP: 131/85 | RR: 13 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: None
Time: 20:30 | HR: 64 | BP: 136/76 | RR: 13 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: Feeling a great euphoria.
Time: 20:35 | HR: 64 | BP: 138/75 | RR: 12 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: Want to go to sleep, great euphoria
Time: 20:40 | HR: 66 | BP: 133/79 | RR: 14 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: Still feeling great.
Time: 20:45 | HR: 66 | BP: 134/80 | RR: 14 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: So far, one of my best experiences yet.
Time: 20:50 | HR: 75 | BP: 151/85 | RR: 0 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: Got up and walked around, was getting a little intense.
Time: 20:55 | HR: 70 | BP: 140/83 | RR: 20 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: Walking around decreased my euphoria.
Time: 21:00 | HR: 66 | BP: 137/79 | RR: 10 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: Euphoria is at its peak
Time: 21:05 | HR: 64 | BP: 135/76 | RR: 17 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: Expecting euphoria to die off soon.
Time: 21:10 | HR: 62 | BP: 130/80 | RR: 7 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: Found myself eyes closed, when I opened them, alarms where beeping for 15 second apnea.
Time: 21:15 | HR: 66 | BP: 136/78 | RR: 8 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: Same as last report... thinking about an IM shot of naloxone. Wish I had my SpO2 Probe.
Time: 21:20 | HR: 58 | BP: 134/76 | RR: 5 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: Not sure why my BP is up.
Time: 21:25 | HR: 60 | BP: 123/67 | RR: 6 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: Spoke to soon about BP. Starting to slowly come out of it.
Time: 21:30 | HR: 55 | BP: 133/82 | RR: 6 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: Scared to fall asleep with this HR and RR. Euphoria allmost gone.
Time: 21:35 | HR: 58 | BP: 130/68 | RR: 7 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: Want to nod off, little euphoria, but I like the disassociatio.
Time: 21:40 | HR: 69 | BP: 136/85 | RR: 8 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: Want to sleep.
Time: 21:45 | HR: 56 | BP: 140/73 | RR: 7 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: None
Time: 21:50 | HR: 60 | BP: 134/75 | RR: 8 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: Euphoria is about 95% gone, but RR is still low.
Time: 21:55 | HR: 62 | BP: 136/77 | RR: 12 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: None
Time: 22:00 | HR: 62 | BP: 126/77 | RR: 7 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: Vitals seem to be nearing my normal sleeping values.
Time: 22:05 | HR: 70 | BP: 125/76 | RR: 23 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: Little nausea, euphoria is gone.
Time: 22:10 | HR: 62 | BP: 128/80 | RR: 15 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: One more reading after this one, and that will end the report.
Time: 22:15 | HR: 62 | BP: 125/74 | RR: 13 | SpO2: 0 | Comments: Last report, vitals are stablizing, effects are almost unnoticable.
Comments:
A little information on acetaminophen(Tylenol):
Any time you are taking multiple tablets which contain acetaminophen, you should make sure that if you are ingesting more than 9 grams or 9000 mg of acetaminophen, you should purify the tablets using the following process, because 10 grams or more of acetaminophen is considered a lethal dosage. Even ammounts greater than 4 grams do great damage on your liver. In this example 16 Vicodin ES tablets contain a total of 12 grams of acetaminophen, making it imperative to purify.
*IMPORTANT NOTE: I have a pretty high tolerance to hydrocodone, tolerance differs in all people, and further develops with use.
Requirements:
- 2 empty cups or anything capable of holding liquids
- 1 coffee filter
- Your Stuff
1. Add 275 mL of chilled tap water to cup 1.
2. Add 16 Vicodin ES tablets(each broke in half, to disolve them quicker) to cup 1. * Extremely high dosage.
3. Stir until no solids remain on bottom of cup 1.
OPTIONAL: I let it sit for a few moments so that the acetaminophen can fall to the bottom of cup 1, it makes the solution run threw the filter quicker.
4. Place coffee filter over cup 2.
5. Slowly pour solution into cup 2, may take multiple pours due to slow filtering.
6. Coffee filter should remove most acetaminophen and leave you with a nasty tasting mostly hydrocodone solution in cup 2.
OPTIONAL: I added a little bit of Vanilla Extract to the final solution for a better taste and smell.
20:15 - ingestion of solution and Soma.
Report Summary, a great hydrocodone experience, with little to no neggative side effects.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very good and informative experience report and info!

[DrMuffy]

^^^^^^^^
Very good trip report! Not many people add their vital signs for an experience report, but SWIdr appreciates SWIY recording them as they can be an important factor/indicator. Heres a suggestion though: I noticed that SWIY used a VERY large dose of hydrocodone to get a good experience. Has SWIY ever tried using opiate potentiaters (Tagamet, grapefruit juice, DXM, etc.) to help reduce the opiate dosage for the same effects?

[csharpprogrammer]

Originally Posted by DrMuffy

^^^^^^^^
Very good trip report! Not many people add their vital signs for an experience report, but SWIdr appreciates SWIY recording them as they can be an important factor/indicator. Heres a suggestion though: I noticed that SWIY used a VERY large dose of hydrocodone to get a good experience. Has SWIY ever tried using opiate potentiaters (Tagamet, grapefruit juice, DXM, etc.) to help reduce the opiate dosage for the same effects?

The only thing ever used to potentiate is two calcium carbonate(antacid) chewables. He thinks these make his hydrocodone experience last longer, much longer.

[addicted2hc]

What antihistimines would SWYM recommend for potentiation? SWIM is guessing these are all over the counter?

[DrMuffy]

Well in SWIdr's oppinion, hydroxyzine is the best, followed by promethazine; but sadly these are both prescription medications (In the US). S for OTC, he would recomend dramamine (diphenhidrate) or benadryl (Diphenhydramine), just take half a normal dose of one of the pills, and take 2/3s of the opiates SWIY intends to use.

[addicted2hc]

Fortunately for SWIM, Someone he knows has a few bottles of promethazine layin around the house.

[DrMuffy]

Well then a healthy dose of 12.5-25mgs would definiatly potentiate ones trip.

[tycon69]

Yea... well this guy, SWIM, likes to take alot of hydrocodone at a time because small doses 20-30mgs dont really effect SWIM. SWIM has been going up little by little trying to acheive more of an effect when he feels little, the highest he has went, was when he cold water extracted 60 mgs and added the rest of SWIM'S Syrup totalling up to about 75-80 mgs with very little acetaminophen and SWIM finally achieved the required results. But SWIM is a little worried about his large dose, because the largest dose he has seen ingested in the erowids vaults was 50mgs. SWIM is wondering if his large doses are safe, or if anyone else takes doses this large or larger.

[imyourlittlebare]

swim takes about 120 mgs at a time. swim reccomends switching to a more potent painmedicine if at all possible to prevent having to go that high. its been documented that taking dxm with morphine prevents tolerance. try that to help.

Originally Posted by tycon69

Yea... well this guy, SWIM, likes to take alot of hydrocodone at a time because small doses 20-30mgs dont really effect SWIM. SWIM has been going up little by little trying to acheive more of an effect when he feels little, the highest he has went, was when he cold water extracted 60 mgs and added the rest of SWIM'S Syrup totalling up to about 75-80 mgs with very little acetaminophen and SWIM finally achieved the required results. But SWIM is a little worried about his large dose, because the largest dose he has seen ingested in the erowids vaults was 50mgs. SWIM is wondering if his large doses are safe, or if anyone else takes doses this large or larger.