Other - Kratom To Help Quit Opiates

[atemeles5]

SWIM after 5 years opiate use (and abuse), he's using subotex from 3 years. Actually he use 2mg/day.Now he want to stop with subotex and try to minimize the withdrawl with kratom. He think to stop taking subotex and use kratom for 7-8 days only and the wait to see what happen. Maybe a 20g powdered kratom will be ok. Anyone have experienced kratom for this pourpose?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good Question

[sweatloaf13]

Swim is on subutex as well (8mg 2x a day) and found a cup of the red vein leaf Kratom boiled in a tea 3 times(about5-6grams)was more than accurate in warding off the monkey if done twice a day with maybe a low-dose benzo to help sleep. Swim was actually really high from the tea as well.It seems like it could end up being the same sort of trap though as all opiate "substitutes" are.....

[atemeles5]

yes sweatloaf. I think you are right. Now Swim quit with subotex (after 4 days of cold turkey). The day 5th start 3g of kratom. But now 8AFTER 3 WEEKS)kratom became very important AND IT'S DIFFICULT TO QUIT. Now SWY is using ONLY 1g/day of kratom but also if is a so small dose...i need.

[sweatloaf13]

I guess it is a two-edged sword,isn't it?SWIM's been getting a weekly order too,though not using it EVERY day. Still it feels 'healthier' than the subutex on me for some reason.The subs just always gave SWIM a bad feeling health-wise.Good Luck!!! Just stay clear of methadone,it's a real bitch!

[Calaquendi]

Originally Posted by sweatloaf13

I guess it is a two-edged sword,isn't it?SWIM's been getting a weekly order too,though not using it EVERY day. Still it feels 'healthier' than the subutex on me for some reason.The subs just always gave SWIM a bad feeling health-wise.Good Luck!!! Just stay clear of methadone,it's a real bitch!

~~thanxx for the methadeath warning, not enough people out here truly realise the insidiousness and REAL DANGER with that evil dookie..were evil to take a form visible, surely that would be it. the anuses that cash in on other human beings' misery, like the ones who privately own several deathadone klinix, i hold morally accountable (like it matters) and its turds like they who have the bread to keep kratom from its sacred and holy duty. there are living plants, deliberately designed by whatever god is, with a curiously specific action to counter this bull****~~ kratom, and ibogaine are nothing short of LIFESAVERS . i dont mean the candy either. yet "legal" issues and sad, greedy vendors {collectively referred to as "special interests"} go to great lengths to insure prohibition. and why? hard to believe almost. certainly sad, ..MONEY. sorry for the soap-box format but swim's very sensitive to suchnesses. i mean, irony??? jokes on the suffering addict?? thanx for the forum! and thanx too for thy patience with my ranting vernacular..hope to continue on with such likeminded enthusiasts!! wellbeing to thee~~C~~

[atemeles5]

I see the side effect of methadone from many friends of mine and SWIM tried it just once nad just for fun (many years ago). I'm sure he will never try it. When the source of subotex (from black market)of Swim finished he avoided to change with methadone and he tried with kratom.
As I said, Swim now use Kratom daily (after a week of cold turkey)...but It can be only psicologic? I tried to explain better. Swim is using only 1,5g of Kratom a day (3g occasionally), a ridiculos dose...but it make him fell ok. Endorphine or Kratom? wich substance make him feel ok?

[sweatloaf13]

Originally Posted by Calaquendi

~~thanxx for the methadeath warning, not enough people out here truly realise the insidiousness and REAL DANGER with that evil dookie..were evil to take a form visible, surely that would be it. the anuses that cash in on other human beings' misery, like the ones who privately own several deathadone klinix, i hold morally accountable (like it matters) and its turds like they who have the bread to keep kratom from its sacred and holy duty. there are living plants, deliberately designed by whatever god is, with a curiously specific action to counter this bull****~~ kratom, and ibogaine are nothing short of LIFESAVERS . i dont mean the candy either. yet "legal" issues and sad, greedy vendors {collectively referred to as "special interests"} go to great lengths to insure prohibition. and why? hard to believe almost. certainly sad, ..MONEY. sorry for the soap-box format but swim's very sensitive to suchnesses. i mean, irony??? jokes on the suffering addict?? thanx for the forum! and thanx too for thy patience with my ranting vernacular..hope to continue on with such likeminded enthusiasts!! wellbeing to thee~~C~~

SWIM does agree a bit with you,but has found that Kratom CAN help deal with those 'jones' always rumbling in your head,especially with a bit of clean time under the belt. Better than a meeting Swim thinks...

[Banj]

Methadone is poison. It rots people from the inside out. Don't accept it! It seeps into your bones and is harder to get rid of that any other opiate. Swim got clean a while ago for 3 years by saving up his DF script (cos they never gave you enough) which meant when it came to giving up he was able to eat enough to feel well. Unfortunately Subtex is now thought to be the new wonder drug but swim don't like it- it makes him feel ill as in cold turkey ill. Swim is thinking of ordering some Kratom too to take the edge of his cluck. He was gonna get 48g to see him through the whole ordeal. Has anyone out there successfully used this for this purpose and can advise swim?

[Calaquendi]

Originally Posted by Banj

Methadone is poison. It rots people from the inside out. Don't accept it! It seeps into your bones and is harder to get rid of that any other opiate. Swim got clean a while ago for 3 years by saving up his DF script (cos they never gave you enough) which meant when it came to giving up he was able to eat enough to feel well. Unfortunately Subtex is now thought to be the new wonder drug but swim don't like it- it makes him feel ill as in cold turkey ill. Swim is thinking of ordering some Kratom too to take the edge of his cluck. He was gonna get 48g to see him through the whole ordeal. Has anyone out there successfully used this for this purpose and can advise swim?

glad to hear someone's got the point about the dangers of methadone...swim's been on it for very nearly six years...and has extensive experience in MISERY...amerikan klinix have vile ridiculous praktices...drooling with avarice and no ethix. jesus. as far as kratom's efficacy where an opiod detox is concerned, swim has tried several kinds of products/methods of ingestion and definately it worx but eating the herb seeems best so far. swim bought a tincture that wasnt shite, but there's too much info, too many folx who know the ropes who praise this material so swim is currently engaged in open research and would love to hear others' reorts...blessings ~C

[boylizard]

Originally Posted by Calaquendi

glad to hear someone's got the point about the dangers of methadone...swim's been on it for very nearly six years...and has extensive experience in MISERY...amerikan klinix have vile ridiculous praktices...drooling with avarice and no ethix. jesus. as far as kratom's efficacy where an opiod detox is concerned, swim has tried several kinds of products/methods of ingestion and definately it worx but eating the herb seeems best so far. swim bought a tincture that wasnt shite, but there's too much info, too many folx who know the ropes who praise this material so swim is currently engaged in open research and would love to hear others' reorts...blessings ~C

I imagine it was thought to be the wonder drug when it was first introduced - so were cocaine and heroin.

[Corksil]

i dun mean to change topics, but i was wondering how addictive kratom is. swim has never tried any opiates, methadone, oxycontin or anything like that. he is pretty un-familiar with addictions and has never been addicted to anything b4, but he ordered kratom over the internet and is waiting for it to arrive.

swim has done lots of reading on additctions, and understands that it's usually not a question of not being able to quit, it's a question of not wanting to quit. he thinks he has a good handle of himself and strong will, but hes wondering what the risk of becoming addicted to kratom is? if it's done in moderation with time spaced between uses, it should be pretty safe, right? thanks guys

[atemeles5]

Yes Banj in swim experience kratom give a big help.
Swim after Heroin/opium use turn to subotex. 2 years os subotex. After this he decided to score. He arrive to 1mg/day than he quit for 3 days. In this 3 days was impossible to stay relaxed, strong stomachace but no depression.
Then he tried to eat 2g of kratom.GREAT! Swim feel good...not high but ok just to have a shower, eat and go out for a walk. 1 week of dayle use of 1-2 g of kratom and when he stopped no withdrawl. Thanks to mother nature.

[Banj]

Thanks, swim is definately going to try it!

[Santa]

Does anyone have experience with using kratom while tapering methadone at the same time? I am on 8 mgs of methadone right now and want to taper to 0 during the next few months. Swim has tried this many times before but never made it due to Swims very long (25 years) methadone-addiction.
Is using kratom to ward off the worst withdrawalsymptoms a good idea for Swim or will Swim not even feel the kratom? And if it does help, how much kratom should Swim more or less take when she tapers to 5 and then to 0 methadone? Swim couldn't find a satisfying answer to this question on the forum..

[atemeles5]

With 5 of methadone swy will not fell kratom. I suggest to use about 10g of kratom starting from day 2 without methadone.

[Santa]

O.k. that sounds like goed advise. The problem is that Swim is getting into severe withdrawals once she is on a lower than 10 mgs and Swim hoped that kratom would pull her through the worst episodes (like the 3th till the 6the day after lowering her dose. Swim has used methadone for over 20 years and failed repeatedly to get off it so she will probably try taking it on 5 mgs anyway..

[acolon_5]

SWIM has used Kratom to get off of Pods when Subonex didn't work. KRATOM DOES WORK. In fact, it works very well. SWIM had very minimal w/d's...almost too small to mention. I spoke with him about exactly what he did to quit. He has had a prior Herion IV problem (which he used the pods to get off of after a horendous methadone issue)

This is what he told me:

"Reduced opiate intake over the course of a few weeks to the smallest level he was comfortable with.

Got some Soma 350mg and some Valium 10mg from a trusted source.

Got 8oz of Bali comercial Kratom

Kratom regime:

Day 1: 1 tablespoon of ground Kratom powder (toss n' wash) 4 times during the day. 2-2.5mg valiums were taken (10mg broken into 4ths); 1 soma 350mg was taken 1 hour prior to bedtime.

Woke up with no w/d's

Day 2-7 TEAspoons of Kratom taken whenever feeling bad. Did not keep a record of actual times or doses but ~12g/day...random valium administrations when anxiety was high (never more than 10mgs a day). Soma used prior to bedtime occasionally. No w/d's

Day 7-14 1 teaspoon taken 3 times daily. No valium, Soma used occasionally to help with sleep. No w/d's.

Day 14-21 1 teaspoon take 2x daily. No valium, no Soma.

Day 21-25 1/2 teaspoon taken 2-3 times daily.

Day 25-30 1/4 teaspoon taken 2x daily (probably unnecessary, but SWIM was terrified of W/D's so did a taper just to be safe)

Day 31 Kratom free, Opiate free. Lingering post-opiate sadness, but I assume this is to be expected. No strong/intense urges to use opiates...no w/d's from the Kratom.

[ ] now only uses Kratom when he has urges to use opiates, it has worked so far."

He seems to be doing well with being opiate free. It can be done. Of course your milage with Kratom will vary, do not over-do it, euphoria will not be your reward...... With Kratom less is more.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good description of avoiding w/d sympt.

[Santa]

Thanks for your reply! This Swim is definitly going to try it (after dropping to a least 2 mgs of methadone and preferably even 0 methadone). Swim also has some valium to fight some of the withdrawalsymptoms.. but never uses more than 5 mgs a day. Swim does not expect wonders from kratom but she does hope that kratom will give her some relieve so she will finally be able to detox methadone. Swim is wondering which type of kratom she needs to order. Would the Bali-type be the best option for her? There are at least 7 different kinds for sale...

[acolon_5]

SWIY will be in for a very pleasant suprise. I am aware that they do (or at least did) use Kratom to help patients get off of methadone in Australia.

But to answer your questions yes, Bali is definitly the way to go for detox, or at least it is what worked for SWIM the best. The Thai strain is too stimulating, gave SWIM the jitters (SWIM has heard that this is not uncommon).

[Santa]

Swim is waiting for her first 'Bali-kratom' to arrive... By the time it does Swim will be on 5 mgs of methadone or probably even less. Swim will do her best to stay off kratom untill Swim is on 2 or preferably 0 milligrams off methadone...
What is soma by the way and what exactly do you mean by toss 'n wash? (This Swim can speak English but isn't sure what Swim above means by it, or maybe she is just a little numb from withdrawal..).
Swim will share an update on how her detox turns out in a few months.

[Santa]

By the way, swim is on 7 mgs methadone now and would still like to hear experiences of others that used kratom while tapering an equally low dose of methadone at the same time. Did it work for you?

[atemeles5]

IN my opinion you have to go down with mg of methadone. I give 20g of kratom to a friend of mine. He was using 9 of methadone daily and he didn't feel anything after the ingestion of 20g of kratom. (i mean ingestion not infusion. ingestion is stronger)

[john_d]

Swim has used the kratom 15x powder to help with opiate (vic. and oxy) w/d and both times it worked great. The first time he made a tea which tasted horrible but did the trick. The 2nd time he made capsules and was able to use it at work. Swim is going at it for what I hope will be the 3rd and final time. He has been using for the better part of 5 years and can honestly that it does work, just be careful with the dosage if you havn'e used it before. Start small and work you're way up. You don't necessarily have to get high, just keep the w/d's at bay long enough to get through it....best of luck.

[acolon_5]

Toss n' Wash refers to the method of consumption where the ground leaves/stems are litterally tossed into a person's mouth and washed down with liquid (usually using a spoon, measuring spoon, or business card). It requires much less material than making a tea out of it, and is absorbed more quickly than if put in capsules. It is the prefered method of people using Kratom to detox (at least from what I have read). It seems to work better than tea or capsules, at least for the SWIM I know.

In SWIM's humble opinon, 5mgs of methadone is pretty light and you should be able to go straight to kratom, but as always tell SWIY to listen to her body. Methadone can be a mess to get off of.

[Santa]

Thanks for your toss an' wash advice! I will certainly keep that in mind.
Twenty years ago Swim used to be able to taper from 5 to zero mgs of methadone rather painlessly but this is not the case anymore. Swim tried to get of this stupid 5 mgs many times but never made it.. So Swim will lower it 2 mgs at the time.
Swim is still wondering whether it would be a good idea to use the kratom (not too much though) when she is still ON the methadon?
For instance; when Swim is lowering from 7 to 5 or from 5 to 2,5 milligrams. Some Swims say kratom won't do anything as long as I am still using any methadone, even when it's as little as 5 mgs... others claim that it really helps fighting off withdrawals while still tapeing methadone... But not too many Swims seem to have personal exerience with it. Anyone done this?