Differences between Bupropion and Amphetamine?

[JL6er]

Hey, would anyone know any distinct differences between Amphetamine and bupropin?

Personally, Im perscribed Wellbutrin and Adderall. But if they both work on the same receptors, is it really necessary? Like--what is different between their actions on the brain? I dont understand.

[GForce]

At the most simple level, Wellbutrin is an Antidepressant and Adderall is a stimulant used to treat ADHD. Depression and ADHD are two completely different medical conditions.

From Wikipedia, on Bupropion;

Bupropion is a selective catecholamine (dopamine and norepinephrine) reuptake inhibitor. It has only a small effect on serotonin reuptake. It does not inhibit MAO (i.e. is not a MAOI). The antidepressant effect of bupropion is considered to be mediated by its dopaminergic and noradrenergic action. Bupropion has also been shown to act as a competitive α3β4 nicotinic antagonist; the α3β4-antagonism has been shown to interrupt certain addictions in studies of other drugs such as ibogaine. This α3β4-antagonism correlates quite well with the observed effect of interrupting addiction.

The most important sentence to pay attention to is the first. Wellbutrin works by inhibiting the reuptake of dopamine and norepinephrine, with a small effect on serotonin. What this means is that these chemicals stay in synaptic gaps longer because their reuptake is blocked. Basically what this does is allow for more of the chemicals to be available for binding to postsynaptic receptors. Without getting too technical, the strength of a synapse is directly related to how many of these postsynaptic receptors are activated. So the chemicals that Wellbutrin effects prevents them from reuptake, allowing them to be more available to these postsynaptic receptors.

Adderall essentially prompts the release of dopamine and norepinephrine from storage areas within nerve terminals (serotonin as well, but at a much smaller level). So, the two meds do work on the same chemicals, however Adderall prompts your body to release more of it and Wellbutrin prompts your body to not reabsorb it. The release of these chemicals by Adderall is what gives you stimulation, euphoria, and concentration. The reuptake inhibition caused by Wellbutrin is what gives you the antidepressant effects (I've never used Wellbutrin so I can't really be specific with effects).

Reputation Comments on this post:

	excellent explanation
	good post
	nice reply, good info

[JL6er]

Thats always what *I* always though Adderall did, but then others kept on saying that Adderall did NOT prompt the release of the neurotransmitters, but rather just prevent the reuptake of them (like Wellbutrin)

This is why I essentially just thought they did basically the same exact thing...

[GForce]

Yeah, I hear that misconception a lot, actually. I didn't even consider it when I read your post, which now definitely explains the confusion. However amphetamine and dextroamphetamine induce the release of neurotransmitters, and those are the only two components of Adderall (half of each are in different salt forms).

[JL6er]

I still wonder, though, if taking Wellbutrin along with the Adderall is causing a blunted effect (making the Adderall itself less effective).

It just seems like that has been the case since my doctor added the Wellbutrin to my regimin...but maybe its just that Im becoming more tolerant to my dose of Adderall (only 20mg, since April 2006)

At first I thought the addition of Wellbutrin would in fact make the Adderall work BETTER, now Im not too sure...

[GForce]

It would make sense that they would have a synergistic effect. At the most basic level one drug is providing the release of neurotramistters and the other is preventing them from being reabsorbed. The effects one would feel from the release of dopamine and norepinephrine in contrast to the effects of the reuptake inhibition of these neurotransmitters are likely different, otherwise they wouldn't be two different medications. However the fact that they act upon the same neurotransmitters SWIM has to believe that, combined, their effect is stronger. If Adderall works by preventing the reuptake and allowing for more activation of post-synaptic receptors, and Wellbutrin provides more of these neurotrasmitters for Adderall to force to stay in the synaptic gap, it would seem logical that they are synergisitc.

The blunted effect could be a variety of things, though. Like SWIY said, he could have increased his tolerence. In addition, there could possibly be more complex chemistry that explains why one would dampen the other (after all, you don't have unlimited neurotransmitters). Unfortunately SWIM is an economics major and this is about the extent of his knowledge.

[~lostgurl~]

^^^^This makes sense, but what if we were talking about a different neurotransmitter, for example serotonin. Take your general SSRI and mix with MDMA and the effects of MDMA are less, along with the risk of serotonin syndrome. Does the release and reuptake of serotonin work differently to the release and reuptake of dopamine or norepinephrine?

SWIM was on Venlafaxine/Effexor (SSNRI) and methamphetamine in the past and didn't notice a difference in the effects or strength of methamphetamine. SWIM did find that coming down off meth her cravings for it were not as strong as they had been without the Venlafaxine though.

[JL6er]

Originally Posted by betsym

Swim found Wellbutrin to be too stimulating and would think that taking it with Adderall would be even more stimulating. Did swiy JL6er not find it to be double speedy?However, swim would also think that the Wellbutrin would take care of any resulting depression that the Adderall may cause when it wears off. So is swiy's overall effect not as good as it could be on either of these medications alone?

Well, with both the meds being at low doses (Wellbutrin, 150mg) (Adderall, 20mg) its hasn't seemed over-stiumulating. Adding the Wellbutrin has helped with the overall day to day depressive symptoms, but doesnt do much for the ADD...so thats why the adderall is staying for now.

[thegoodfight]

SWIM has taken both Bupropion and adderall and doesn't notice as much either @ 20mg. SWIM may also be much more tolerant of narcotics as well.

JL6er- watch the use of "I", you may want to edit to what you really meant "swim". Swim does that too..

Swim would also like to see an article with the interactions of bupropion with legal and illicit meds. Swim had a really bad experience a few days ago with 30mg DXM which was in his cold meds.. Swin takes 300mg Wlbtrn SR, and the 30mg dilated his pupils very wide, made him very space, nauseous (sp?), and speedy/unable to sleep.

[~lostgurl~]

Just wondering if anyone can answer my question in the above post?

[tayo]

I think there was some confusion on how amphetamine works...

Molecule of amphetamine.


(sorry it's huge)

...molecule of dopamine...


molecule of bupropion.




Okay, so I will do my best to explain my understanding of how it works.

The amphetamine molecule actually inhibits the dopamine receptor, replacing some dopamine and blocking some of the dopamine transporter's functionality to remove dopamine from the synapse, so the synapse floods and excess dopamine signaling occurs. This overload creates the body's natural response; in an attempt to regulate neurotransmitter levels, the body creates less dopamine (downregulation of dopamine production) because it has been "tricked" into thinking too much dopamine was filling these receptors. When the amphetamine is not present, the body fails to create enough dopamine, fast enough to compete with the elimination of the amphetamine and this could present itself as coming down/withdrawals or plain feeling like crap.

Notice the similarities in structure of amphetamine and dopamine. There is an NH2 group present in both, and an NH group present in bupropion, my best guess is that NH and the carbon ring are identifiers in the body for dopamine. All three have NH and the carbon ring. The receptor must be sensitive to the NH group w/ a carbon ring.

Since bupropion stimulates the re-uptake of the body's natural dopamine, while someone is coming down from amphetamines this could ease the comedown, by replacing downregulated dopamine faster than the body could alone.

Also, if anyone has reported weaker effects than previous use of an amphetamine (or other dopaminergic), this could make sense because it may competetively reverse the prevention of the reuptake to increased reuptake. Typically the stronger the amphetamine the greater the affinity for a dopamine receptor... so for some amphetamines, excess reuptake will not interfere with its actions.

For the norepinephrine reuptake question
from wikipedia

"Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (NRIs), also known as noradrenaline reuptake inhibitors (NARIs), are compounds that elevate the extracellular level of the neurotransmitternorepinephrine in the central nervous system by inhibiting its reuptake from the synaptic cleft into the presynaptic neuronal terminal. The drugs inhibit the class of neurotransmitter transporters known as norepinephrine transporters. They have virtually no action other monoamine transporters."

"
The noradrenaline transporter or NAT is a monoamine transporter that transports the neurotransmitternoradrenaline from the synapse back to its vesicles for storage until later use. It also appears to transport the neurotransmitterdopamine in the same way, but to a lesser degree.
"

my understanding of this now, is that bupropion increases norepinephrine transporter's action and in a combination with extra dopamine uptake, will allow more dopamine to transport, easier.

Any questions? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Excellent post, thx for taking time to answer question so thoroughly

[~lostgurl~]

Thanks for the info Tayo! Does anyone know if bupropion prescribed for methamphetamine withdrawal? Has anyone used it for this?

Reputation Comments on this post:

no problem. good questions.

[tayo]

Here's a study on it. http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct/gui/sho...4FD8D?order=41

And here's an experience for it
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=62615

and here is a university of washington article on it
"Interestingly, in a short-term study of medical therapy for methamphetamine users, the antidepressant bupropion (Wellbutrin), which has established efficacy in smoking cessation, reduced both cue-induced drug craving for methamphetamine (Figure 5) and subjective high after methamphetamine administration [25]. Although bupropion's role in the treatment of methamphetamine dependence requires further study, it may be a reasonable first-line agent for the treatment of depression in methamphetamine dependent individuals.
"



If someone were to show this to a doctor I believe they would prescribe it...

here's the link to the PUBmed abstract study that I can't post on the website because I don't have access to the full text.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...=pubmed_docsum
someone should upload this to the archives^^^^

[~lostgurl~]

Fantastic! SWIM thinks she is suffering from post methamphetamine depression, she will bring it up with her Doctor and report back. Thanks again for all the info, very much appreciated!

[hh339]

Originally Posted by tayo

If someone were to show this to a doctor I believe they would prescribe it...

And if not, you could get it as a quit smoking aid anyway. At least where Stan lives.

[tayo]

Yeah, the only issue there could be the dosage. I'm making an assumption that it would be less for smoking addiction and more for depression.

[hh339]

Originally Posted by tayo

Yeah, the only issue there could be the dosage. I'm making an assumption that it would be less for smoking addiction and more for depression.

Smoking: I have seen 150 mg tabs.

[tayo]

Bupropion reduces methamphetamine-induced subjective effects and cue-induced craving.


http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/loc...=913&catid=135

[Sickpup]

Buprorion is the only DRI that is an RX.The DRI family includes some potent meds,such as amphetimine and cocain.Bubrorion is also a modest dopamine agonist.It is most effective in generic short half-life 100mg tabs.France in the 1970's released a DRI for depression,however it was diverted and used on the street so It was pulled.Buprorion has been termed the suburban rx cocain.side effects are along the lines of a junior cocain.Other DRIs are being studied for depression atm also.In a sense one could say Freud was right after all,It just took the pharmas a while to catch up.

[~lostgurl~]

SWIM got a script for Bupropion to help her quit smoking and hopefully it will help her with depression from quitting methamphetamine too. It is not subsidised where SWIM lives and the cost is $200 per month, but if she can stay off the meth and ciggies $200 per month is not much to pay. Her dose is 150mg for 1 week then 300mgs. She is supposed to stop smoking 1 week after she starts taking it.