Article: "How Feminism Destroyed Real Men"

[Nicaine]

This was posted on another forum, but I wanted to get input from the people I know & love around here on it . I hope this is the correct place to repost it (if not, mods please move or delete).

The link:

http://tinyurl.com/ppg9z

Here's an excerpt, WITH SNIPPED PORTIONS (I'll post my reply immediately afterward, and it's changed little or not at all from what I said on the other forum):

Women thought the last victory of equality was to make men more 'sensitive'. The bitter irony, says this male writer in a piece that will infuriate the opposite sex (including his wife Liz Jones), is women don't like wimps after all...

Back in the Nineties, emboldened by the successes of feminism, women sought to slay the dragon of patriarchy by turning men into ridiculous cissies who would cry with them through chick-flicks and then cook up a decent lasagne.

Suddenly, women wanted to drive home their newfound equality by moulding men to be more like them.

Now, over a decade later, women are waking up to the fact that these men are drippy, sexless bores. The feminisation of men hasn't produced the well-rounded uber-males women were hoping for.

Instead, women are now lumped with flabby invertebrates, little more than doormats, whom they secretly despise but are too proud to admit it.

Rather than partnership, professional women tend to seek dominance in a relationship. They map their lives out early on and pursue their dream of 'having it all' with cold-blooded ruthlessness.

Deep down, women love men who stand up to them, who won't be pushed around. They love men who will look them in the eye and tell them to shut up when their hormonal bickering has become too much.

They love men who will draw a line in the sand and walk out on them when they've had enough. They love men who know their own minds and are man enough to stick to their guns.

In recent years, men have been trained like circus seals to be inoffensive to women, and no longer know how to entice them and turn them on.

Men are now generally terrified of women. They hold their tongues for fear of being misinterpreted as sexist; they constantly attempt to secondguess their partner in order to avoid giving offence.

But women secretly long for a man with swagger, who is cocky and selfassured and has the cheek to stand up them and make fun of their feminine foibles.

Bring back the real men, girls. You might just remember why you loved them in the first place.

(portions snipped to conform to copyright laws -- please read the full article linked-to above).

[Nicaine]

And my reply...

Here's the deal for me: I personally find the 00's ideal of feminism (intelligent, sharp, witty, gorgeous, athletic, assertive, successful woman) to be so mind-blowingly attractive that it's laughable comparing to the dim, dumpy, obedient, overpainted, out-of-shape 1950s-1970s ideal.

No clue how it's affected *most* men, but Hilary Swank falls somewhere in the ballpark of my perfect woman (perhaps slightly on the masculine side and a little 'too' in-shape for my tastes, but not far off). Ohh Bay-BAY! %)

I love, love, love, love, love what women have become the last 15 years or so. Fwiw, I'm neither a "macho BS image" nor "wimpy/geeky" type guy, just myself. Which BTW I also appreciate being able to be, without having to put on some idiotic grainy-voiced George Thorogood act around people, male OR female (not that I can't play that part purty good whenever desired... LOL).

But women secretly long for a man with swagger, who is cocky and self assured and has the cheek to stand up them and make fun of their feminine foibles.

Sorry, I don't buy it. Self assured, yes. Swagger, cockiness, making fun of "their feminine foibles"... utter and complete bullsh*t.

Men are now generally terrified of women.

Is that true? If so, all I can think is... DAMN, their loss! Poor fools.

[grecian]

How does this guy claim to know what women want. I know i do NOT want to be anything like him, he thinks being a 'real man' involves cheating on your wife and then getting her to call you the boss and then writing about it in a fascist newspaper.

Originally Posted by article

In recent years, men have been trained like circus seals to be inoffensive to women, and no longer know how to entice them and turn them on.

Ummm, what? Speak for yourself mate! Anyone else failing to see the connection between not offending women and not turning them on, i'm lost on this one.

Im going for the Freudian ground on this one, well I think its Freudian anyway, women want a father figure to keep them in check same as men want a mother like figure to tell us off when we get muddy. I swear my girl likes/respects it when i tell her to stop moaning/speaking rubbish/fannyarsing about with make-up, same as i like/respect it when she doesnt let me on drugs-forum or to the football when i got assignments due, or stops swim from having another pint when he's already rolling on the floor.

Key here is its mutual.

This article is drivel, as i would expect from the Daily Mail, i think its caused my second rant of the nite tho so atleast it got me thinking.

[Woodman]

This article reads like a guy has been suffering the lash of a pussy-whip for years. He has had enough of it, and now that it seems his marriage is doomed, so he has decided to bite back in a particularly vicious manner.

He has clearly had a sudden infusion of testosterone and it has apparently invigorated him enough to write this piece; yet, he remains psychologically bound (perhaps by way of his political disposition) to the feminist ideology.

He not only cheats on his wife and brags about it, he intentionally humiliates her, mentioning her by name, in several parts of the article.

NEWS FLASH: "real men" don't make commitments that they can't keep; a concept that is summarily rejected by liberals (particularly socialists) and feminists because it does not fit into their politically correct ideology. In fact, it is only a widespread feminist myth that "'ALL' men cheat," so this guy is falls right in line with the feminist idea of a "man".

His chains are only partially broken, perhaps from being emboldened by a new sense of masculine virility, but it is only through adhering to personal responsibility that one can make the transition from childhood into becoming a real, "Man"!

I did read several passages that I found to be particularly amusing:

-----------------------------------

"Young women have a crystal-clear agenda: they want the career, the wardrobe, the smartly furnished house, the 4x4 and the cute kids they'll ferry in it to expensive schools. No man is going to get in their way; and the men they choose for themselves are pliant and feeble enough to facilitate that programme.

Concentrating so much energy on work and family matters requires these women to pick a man who is predictable and secure, who won't upset the apple cart by pursuing dreams and instincts of his own."

----------------------------------------

"Real men don't pretend or even try to understand women. They simply love them for being the mysterious, capricious creatures that they are. And they don't take them too seriously, either. They know the vicissitudes of the female mind, its constant insecurities and the fluctuations in mood

Rather than pander to them, they simply watch them drift by like so many clouds on the horizon. They don't get entangled in a woman's feelings and listen to her prattling on and on until she's talked herself out. Such strong and stoic men are exactly what women need to anchor themselves amid the chaos of their emotions."
-----------------------------------------

Yup, that part sounds about as right as I've ever known it to be.

[Nature Boy]

Feminism hasn't just destroyed real mean either, it's destroyed real women. A sexually empowered woman is frowned upon by many traditional feminists just as much as they are frowned upon by conservative old farts. For a movement that tries to embetter the role of women in society, why do they frown upon sexually empowered women, the complete opposite of how the dominant male class views a sexually empowered man?

[Jatelka]

^^^ How does feminism frown on sexually empowered women NB? Interested to hear SWIY's viewpoint.

[drugsrbad]

Many responses have disagreed with the author, but I have to give him credit. Hot women love guys that a cocky and funny. If you are, a pussy like most of America is you will end up with a woman that treats you like shit. I have been in both sides of this. I used to treat women nice, like equals. You know what that got me. A lot of girl " friends". If you treat a women like she is an equal to you will be crushed. You have to know as a man that you are better than they are and confident, otherwise enjoy banging fat chicks your whole life. Men 30 years ago knew they were better than women were and that is why it was so much easier to get laid. Nowadays women think they have a say (women's rights BS) and men bowed down and be came these ubermen aka pussies. Women from my experience love to be teased and treated like shit. If you treat them nice and buy them gifts blah, blah, blah... they walk all over your. Not to sell shit but search double your dating (not sure of the author) it has helped me a lot. You may think being nice is the answer but it is exactly the opposite.

[grecian]

Originally Posted by drugsrbad

If you treat a women like she is an equal to you will be crushed.

This sounds like something Borat would say.

With regards to the above post I cannot understand why people see this as such a black and white issue, can you not be cocky and funny without thinking you are better than women? The fact that some people feel so threatened by women is the funniest thing. I wouldnt for one minute deny that men and women are very different but I prefer to see the differences as complementary. I just got back from work and I know for a fact my day would have been completetly shit if I didnt have girls to flirt and have a laugh with there. I think I am equal to them, and I do not feel crushed.

[drugsrbad]

haha that did kind of sound like a borat comment, i was drunk writing this. Most people try to have the upper hand or the power in a relationship, especially in America (that why marriage doesnt work here). If you don't have the upper hand on them they will ahve it on you. This may only be true with younger people. I can't say for sure. This is just my opinion anyway. do whatever you want. Young women suck.

[Nature Boy]

Originally Posted by Jatelka

^^^ How does feminism frown on sexually empowered women NB? Interested to hear SWIY's viewpoint.

Just the general attitude towards promiscuity. It runs through almost all of western society.

[Woodman]

Originally Posted by drugsrbad

...Women from my experience love to be teased and treated like shit. If you treat them nice and buy them gifts blah, blah, blah... they walk all over your. Not to sell shit but search double your dating (not sure of the author) it has helped me a lot. You may think being nice is the answer but it is exactly the opposite.

Well... that certainly is an interesting perspective.

I wonder, does that persona come with a side-order of purging and self mutilation, because anyone who's LOOKING to get treated badly probably has a few other compulsive disorders that need to be taken into account.

[drugsrbad]

Originally Posted by Woodman

Well... that certainly is an interesting perspective.

I wonder, does that persona come with a side-order of purging and self mutilation, because anyone who's LOOKING to get treated badly probably has a few other compulsive disorders that need to be taken into account.

haha I guess you have never been to high school or college in America?

[Nature Boy]

Fuck all this nonsense about "women like this" and "women like that" etc.

Every individual is unique, male or female, and every individual is attracted to different personality and behavioural patterns or traits just as diversely as types of physical attraction are. All this mumbo-jumbo bullshit is a complete and utter waste of time and for anyone to believe that, they must clearly be lacking in the old upstairs department. It makes about as much sense as feng-shui or astrology, dare I say religion, or some other ridiculous tripe like that. It sickens me that there are spinmasters out there who've made rich, successful careers out of this mindless rhetoric. [/rant]

[Woodman]

Nice rant.

Well put.

'Nuff said!

[Each Hit]

Originally Posted by drugsrbad

haha I guess you have never been to high school or college in America?

oddly enough, some women like to be treated like people rather than doormats. you won't attract the low self-esteem women who think the only way men will like them is by having sex with them, but you are more likely to find a person you can respect and love (and isn't that the whole point??)

maybe i'm a romantic loser, but i'd rather be with a woman i respect and see as equal. if you only enter a relationship with someone you feel is inferior, what does that say about your view of yourself??

[drugsrbad]

i was only talking about gettign laid. Good looking women get treated great by every loser that tries hitting on them. when you treat them differently they will think of you diffferent from ever other loser that buys them drink and tells them how hot they are.

[Each Hit]

maybe if you don't try to "hit on them" and try to connect on a human level, you'll understand what i'm saying. though i tend not to focus on sex so much as i focus on finding somebody i can connect with.

honestly, the whole oversexualized mentality of today's culture really bothers me. sex is basically a drug for most people. have you read "brave new world" by aldous huxley?? you might find startling similarities to our culture's developing trends...

[drugsrbad]

well i have had relationships that i enjoyed in the past. I never did the whole bang chicks thing till rtecently. I enjoy it at the moment casue im still in college. Sex is a drug on most level it releases chemicals that makes you happy. what is wrogn with looking at sex as getting your fix? i don't see a point in looking for a meaningful relationship is worth it. Most marriage in america fail so why not just get laid and have a good time?

What do u mean connect on a huiman level? be friends with them? I have a lot of "girlfriends" also that i treat like another guyfriend, but i also have a few fuck buddies. i see nothing wrong in what i do do.

[Nature Boy]

I have no problem with people having a sexual desire and not necessarily wanting a relationship, sex afterall is a good thing, but there are no easy answers in regards to how treating women will effect your chances of getting laid. Treat women however you please, as long as you don't cross the line and act like a complete and utter dickhead. It may be a common cliché but be yourself and go on your instincts. That advice is a lot sounder than basing your entire approach towards relationships/getting laid on someone else's bullshit recommendations.

[El Calico Loco]

Nature Boy said it for me. Every person is an individual. I dislike the author of this article for the same reason I dislike gender-fems like Steinem. All men are X. All women are Y.

Bullshit!!

Here's a generalization for you: all generalizations are false. Philosophers and linguists should enjoy that one.

(This statement is true. The previous statement is false. )

Swim's shrink once told him that, according to the theory she subscribes to, people are attracted to others for two reasons:

1. Because they see something of themselves in the other person
2. Because they see something that challenges them in the other person

Usually a mixture of both rather than one or the other.

Makes sense to me. Suckers (like Swim) will often find themselves attracted to damaged people because Swim wants to help others. He also has a soft spot for waifs and strays and will sometimes engage a homeless person in conversation for more than five minutes.

The shallow probably attract each other, especially when ShallowOne doesn't seem to like ShallowTwo. There's the something-in-common and the challenge.

It might explain why so many women (and some men he's known) seem to hook up with jerks or losers over and over; they think they can fix them. And they're used to it.


ECL

[sunyata]

Originally Posted by Woodman

Rather than pander to them, they simply watch them drift by like so many clouds on the horizon. They don't get entangled in a woman's feelings and listen to her prattling on and on until she's talked herself out.

It's called Meditation for the Married and would probably prevent a lot of divorces.If applied in other areas as well it might induce General Peace.
I'm glad to see the Buddha's teachings in places one would not expect to find them.

God Jul