Tanaiste calls for tougher drug laws (Ireland)

[Trebor]

The Tanaiste and Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell has said there is a need for tough sentences on people who are found guilty of drug offences.
Speaking on RTÉ Radio, he said there was a need to 'get real' on sentencing and contrasted an 18-year jail sentence handed down to two Irish men found to have imported drugs into Britain with recent sentencing on drug offences here.
He said guns and drugs went together and judges could not 'go soft' on individuals simply because their barristers argued they were a small cog in a big machine.


Seperately, he said he was disappointed that the Catholic Hierachy had not given its opinion on the age of consent to the Dail committee, which recommended that it be lowered earlier this week.
Mr McDowell said the committee had written to the Catholic Hierachy looking for an opinion but did not get one. He said the Church of Ireland synod had responded.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1209/drugs.html

I really hate this man. I mean, you have no idea how much I hate him.

His policies with drugs are about as sense making as Bush when he's drunk.
The fact that he also involves the church in STATE matters is also crazy.

[Lunar Loops]

Originally Posted by Trebor

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1209/drugs.html

I really hate this man. I mean, you have no idea how much I hate him.

His policies with drugs are about as sense making as Bush when he's drunk.
The fact that he also involves the church in STATE matters is also crazy.

You are not alone in that Trebor and I think I have every idea how much you hate him. The man loves the sound of his own voice and I have sweet dreams of a cheesewire garotte.

[Trebor]

He's number nine on my hate list followed by:

8: Mary Harney (Whore banned shrooms)
7: That cunt of a teacher that said I was a hateful person.
6: The Presedent who does nothing but help ban shrooms yet they grow in her state garden!
5: Grainne Kenny (obvious)
4:Bush
3: The Pope
2: Christian Fundamentalists
1: Everybody who keeps reality TV business!

[Nature Boy]

Our government are a pack of assholes! Catholic Church consultation for sexual policy? Anyone see the irony (hint: get your eyes checked if you don't) here? And drug policy organised by a pack of wankers who don't have the first clue about them in the first place. Sorry about the language folks but this week's domestic news has left me with nothing but a sickening feeling in my stomach. I actually thought this country was progressing towards something about two years ago. Now I feel like everything's going completely backwards. That sort of reversal is hard to palate. I actually have more faith in George W. Bush than Bertie Aherne things have gotten so bad. Irish politics are amongst the most corrupt and narrow-minded in the world. It hurts me to even think about it.

[Trebor]

Originally Posted by Nature Boy

Our government are a pack of assholes! Catholic Church consultation for sexual policy? Anyone see the irony (hint: get your eyes checked if you don't) here? And drug policy organised by a pack of wankers who don't have the first clue about them in the first place. Sorry about the language folks but this week's domestic news has left me with nothing but a sickening feeling in my stomach. I actually thought this country was progressing towards something about two years ago. Now I feel like everything's going completely backwards. That sort of reversal is hard to palate. I actually have more faith in George W. Bush than Bertie Aherne things have gotten so bad. Irish politics are amongst the most corrupt and narrow-minded in the world. It hurts me to even think about it.

Can't the people do something? Come on lads1 To the Dail! I say drug users should start a party, not to persue their own agenda, but the agenda of the Irish race. Decent health, education and security for all. Then, just maybe, the people will see that they are not all back alley wasters.

Or else we could all go to the dail and chant "Berrrrrttttttttieeeeeeee" over and over. And Nate, here's a qoute from yesterday's "Times": "I asked him to be sure and he assured me. I'm now sure." Berrrrrtttttttttieeeeeeee said that about when he asked Bush about planes transporting CIA prisoners through Shannon Airport.

[Trebor]

Originally Posted by Nature Boy

Our government are a pack of assholes! Catholic Church consultation for sexual policy? Anyone see the irony (hint: get your eyes checked if you don't) here? And drug policy organised by a pack of wankers who don't have the first clue about them in the first place. Sorry about the language folks but this week's domestic news has left me with nothing but a sickening feeling in my stomach. I actually thought this country was progressing towards something about two years ago. Now I feel like everything's going completely backwards. That sort of reversal is hard to palate. I actually have more faith in George W. Bush than Bertie Aherne things have gotten so bad. Irish politics are amongst the most corrupt and narrow-minded in the world. It hurts me to even think about it.

Can't the people do something? Come on lads! To the Dail! I say drug users should start a party, not to persue their own agenda, but the agenda of the Irish race. Decent health, education and security for all. Then, just maybe, the people will see that they are not all back alley wasters.

Or else we could all go to the dail and chant "Berrrrrttttttttieeeeeeee" over and over. And Nate, here's a qoute from yesterday's "Times": "I asked him to be sure and he assured me. I'm now sure." Berrrrrtttttttttieeeeeeee said that about when he asked Bush about planes transporting CIA prisoners through Shannon Airport.

[funkspiel]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._peirce11.html

[drugsrbad]

Originally Posted by Nature Boy

That sort of reversal is hard to palate. I actually have more faith in George W. Bush than Bertie Aherne things have gotten so bad. Irish politics are amongst the most corrupt and narrow-minded in the world. It hurts me to even think about it.

whoa whoa whoa.... i wouldn't go that far....you might get arrested for treason for a statement like that haha. only 765 days 3 hours 51 minutes 40 seconds till bush is gone(then we will get stuck with another loser like hillary Clinton.)

[Trebor]

Originally Posted by drugsrbad

whoa whoa whoa.... i wouldn't go that far....you might get arrested for treason for a statement like that haha. only 765 days 3 hours 51 minutes 40 seconds till bush is gone(then we will get stuck with another loser like hillary Clinton.)

Hi! I'm Trebor. I live in Ireland. We have a government that doesn't know it's head from it's ass, of course with Cowen that's understandable. As for your idea that we may be done for treason. Not a hope! We're one of few countries left that still have freedom of speech. Also, why not Hilary Clinton? She'd be by far the sexiest president you guys ever had.

[drugsrbad]

Originally Posted by Trebor

Hi! I'm Trebor. I live in Ireland. We have a government that doesn't know it's head from it's ass, of course with Cowen that's understandable. As for your idea that we may be done for treason. Not a hope! We're one of few countries left that still have freedom of speech. Also, why not Hilary Clinton? She'd be by far the sexiest president you guys ever had.

Treason was a joke. hillary being the sexist haha, yeah right i am straight, but bill is better looking than hillary.

[Nature Boy]

You know how expensive it is to set up a political party in Ireland? I'm pretty certain you need at least €10,000 to even run for local elections, not to mention how much it would cost to run for national elections. It's also illegal to officially state a desire in changing drug prohibition policy in regards to collective political parties.

But that's only the tip of the iceberg. The, what I'm guessing, 70% of conservative voters need to die out first and that's going to take at least twenty years, without even assuming that the likes of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael have a plan to keep their grip on Irish politics to ensure further generations of corruption, backhanded tactics and general bullshit of that sort.

We're living under the shadow of a backwards society still brainwashed by the stumbing Roman Catholic Church. Our only hope is a move away from religion and a gradual secular movement must take place in order to truly change the rotting foundations of this nation. It will take time and it will take intelligence. Unfortunately it seems all of the intelligence is operating in the private sector while there isn't a single working brain between the people involved in the state sector.

Decentralization is crucial in order to crack this nut. Most people involved in politics are from the land of rural bungalow blitz. They sit back and collect their brown envelopes without having lived a day in the life of the modern world. I don't mean to offend people who don't live in the cities here, but Ireland's rural backwardness is still fucking up this country's politics despite there being more people living in cities today.

Have I painted a pretty picture in displaying how difficult it will be to kill this monster?

[Lunar Loops]

Originally Posted by Nature Boy

I don't mean to offend people who don't live in the cities here, but Ireland's rural backwardness is still fucking up this country's politics despite there being more people living in cities today.

Hmmm, I agree with most of your post, but not so sure about this part. I have lived in both for long periods of time and I see no real difference between those in power who come from the city and those that come from the country. Corruption is rife in politics in this country and the jackeens and the culchies can share equal responsibility. In fact if you take the proportion living in the cities (and Dublin in particular) as a percentage of the voting population, you could say they are even more responsible for our current incumbents.

Let's see where the current terrible two hail from shall we? Step forward jack-booted jackeens Bertie and McTool. Enough said.

You are so right about the church and the state though, if it wasn't so awful, it would be laughable.

[Trebor]

Fuck it1 Do what the Kennedys did and take bribes from dealers. I'm sure if we said we'd legalize coke some Columbians would endorse us. And if we legalized weed I know a guy named Dutchy who has lots of money. And to do away with the conservative vote I bet the Columbiansd have guns. That'd work.


And with regards to church-state relations I believe that it was Ireland and Fascist Italy that were the only two countrys ever to recognise the importance of the church. Bullshit! It's becuase of the church that I was sent to a conservative catholic school where I more or less had it drilled into me that god would help you. Well there is only one seyt of prints in this sand and they match my feet perfectly.

[Nature Boy]

I hardly think Colombian cartels are the solution to our woes. It was rumoured that the Kennedys took bribes off the Colombians in order to keep cocaine illegal. Why would they bribe the government to make it legal? Wouldn't the government start growing their own coca plants instead to make 100% profit instead of letting someone else take their money off them? Either way, it's never gonna happen. Moot point.

[Trebor]

If governments paid the cartels to grow their plants for the governments both would be happy. I meant about how the kennedys were boot-leggers during prohibition.

[Trebor]

I totally agree with what Liam is saying about rural backwardness. When Siwm was in Secondry School, those who emigrated into the city for school would say "Want ta buy some hash?" Swim could have showed them a lump of turf and they'd have believed it to have been hash. What they didn't know was that Swim had plants growing on land owned by one of them.

[Lunar Loops]

Originally Posted by Trebor

I totally agree with what Liam is saying about rural backwardness. When Siwm was in Secondry School, those who emigrated into the city for school would say "Want ta buy some hash?" Swim could have showed them a lump of turf and they'd have believed it to have been hash. What they didn't know was that Swim had plants growing on land owned by one of them.

Not knowing what drugs look like can hardly be classified as being backward. Knowing your substances is hardly some measure of sophistication and intelligence. What NB was talking about was the policy makers not the average Joe on the street (or lane as the case may be).

On a side note, SWIS has always thought it bizarre that something as filthy and polluted as what passes for hash in this country is called soap.

[Trebor]

But it is evidence of backwardness, even Swim's brother who hasn't a clue about drugs can tell the difference between weed strains. Without even smoking them.

On a side note, Swim only once smoked soap and that was becuase he didn't know it was in the joint. He thought he'd been handed the good stuff.

[Lunar Loops]

Originally Posted by Trebor

But it is evidence of backwardness, even Swim's brother who hasn't a clue about drugs can tell the difference between weed strains. Without even smoking them.

On a side note, Swim only once smoked soap and that was becuase he didn't know it was in the joint. He thought he'd been handed the good stuff.

It is a sign of not knowing anything about drugs, but that is ALL it is. Knowing the difference between different strains of weed is not a sign of general intelligence or sophistication. Not knowing about drugs does NOT make a person backward, it just means they do not know about drugs.

Drug knowledge is not a measue of someone's intelligence in general or indeed whether or not they are culturally or socially backward.

[Nature Boy]

Originally Posted by shroomonger

Drug knowledge is not a measue of someone's intelligence in general or indeed whether or not they are culturally or socially backward.

I would disagree with that if the person in question is using drugs. Information is easy to find. You are pig ignorant if you refuse to investigate what you are putting into your body.

[Lunar Loops]

Originally Posted by Nature Boy

I would disagree with that if the person in question is using drugs. Information is easy to find. You are pig ignorant if you refuse to investigate what you are putting into your body.

Very true, but I was only talking in general terms (i.e. someone who has absolutely no interest in illicit substances or their consumption and subsequently no knowledge of them is not necessarily backward).

[Trebor]

I agree.

[Lunar Loops]

Originally Posted by Trebor

I agree.

Apologies for bludgeoning the point.....SWIS does have a tendency to go on a bit at times.

[Trebor]

You're forgiven. No problem man.

[Nature Boy]

Well yes, that's true of course. However I feel that people who form opinions about drug use and air them publicly should do their research. The newspapers are crammed full of articles bad-mouthing every single illegal substance under one umbrella by people who don't know hash from weed. I find that it's something of a national disgrace that the difference between soapbar and healthier forms of cannabis has never been highlighted in a national newspaper (at least to my knowledge). Prohibitionists seem more concerned in cracking down on high THC strains of marijuana rather than stomping out the much more harmful soapbar which is quite worrying. An example of this would be the scenario a buddy of SWIM's found himself at a music festival once. A similar uncertainty over the difference between MDMA and ecstasy pills also occurs.

He, along with many other people in his campsite area, were smoking soapbar (yes I know, tut-tut!) when a group of Gardaí entered the area and proceeded to confiscate skunk off some Welsh visitors leaving all the soapbar smokers alone, as if what they were smoking was completely harmless. This sort of ignorance or warped prioritizing is just plain wrong. It's also bizarre that someone can get done for possessing zero THC hash while people zero MDMA ecstasy won't get done despite the fact that hemp products are being sold legally in various shops. This is another scenario SWIM has heard about. The hypocrisy, confusion and general lunacy over drug policy in this country is seriously disturbing.