Cooking With Amanitas: How To Do It Right

[Bajeda]

Swim is becoming increasingly agitated going through all the drug-related sites he knows, as it seems that no one has a clue how to consume Amanitas Muscaria properly.

There are reports of people puking, not feeling anything (quite common), feeling way too much, the taste being horrible (swim put some in a PBJ once, bad idea!), etc. etc.

Swim has seen all sorts of information about Amanitas, ranging from "ITS POISON!!" to "ITS INACTIVE!!" to "DON'T TAKE MORE THAN A TABLESPOON OR SO!!", plus almost every single preparation or recipe guide he has seen has been for fresh mushrooms that are either dried or cooked directly.



Now swim has taken amanitas about 4 times before, and only on two occaisions did he get actual psychedelic effects. Ironically, the two times he did get effects he ate them in the most disgusting ways. First time he made a tea with friends that a girl messed up by putting tons of orange peels and honey and sugar in because she couldnt stand the smell, which of course only made it 10x worse! The other time he did it he threw close to 9 grams of really terrible quality Amanitas (they had random roots and dirt on them that swim could barely get out, plus they were disintegrating) into a bowl of already prepared ramen noodles and ate as fast as possible until he got to the end when the taste was horrible so he couldn't drink the remaining soup. So the consumption in these cases was terrible, but the experiences were actually fairly enjoyable, though only the ramen one got any truly psychedelic effects (such as floating around inside the GPS system of swim's friend's car!).


Swim has a larger quantity of Amanitas now. He already depleted some by trying them in PBJs like he usually does with psilocybin mushrooms. They were quite disgusting, as the Amanitas tasted like what could only be described as "gerbil" and had the consistency of sand. Swim eat probably around 6-7 grams and got barely threshold effects. No real enjoyment there, just a slightly "different" feeling.


So now swim still has a decent amount of Amanitas left, but he doesn't want to waste anymore or go through unnecessary unpleasantries in order to get a good (or any!) experience from these mushrooms. He has read posts, reports, and other anecdotal evidence suggesting that Amanitas Muscaria taste quite good when cooked, and that the further conversion of ibotenic acid to muscimol would reduce unpleasant side-effects and increase potency. Swim has also read a ton of other utter bullshit on the topic of Amanitas so he is just completely confused at the moment. Its surprising how little interest the members of drugs-forum seem to have in the Fly Agaric mushroom, potential unhealthy side effects aside (I mean come on, there are a good amount of IV drug users, heavy drug users, polysubstance users who experiment with dangerous combinations, why would everyone be scared off by unverified and unknown reports?). In any case, swim is set on consuming Amanitas in the near future, and he wants the entire experience to be somewhat enjoyable, including consumption.


Swim is compiling below all the potentially useful anecdotal evidence he can find on this topic. There are many conflicting facts stated in much of the anecdotal material he has seen, and many of the reports seem quite unprofessional in nature and give swim the impression the person doesn't quite have an idea what they are talking about. Swim will try to filter out all the questionable information he finds.

If any members on drugs-forum have experience with Amanitas please post here to help swim out. Recipes would be helpful, as well as answers to the questions swim is going to list out at the bottom of the post.







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Steven Pollock, J. Psych Drugs Oct-Dec 1975.

"When we returned to a friend's residence, we boiled six caps of various dimensions. Frank consumed two in his mushroom soup and I ate four (the usual dose being one to four caps). The taste was something like chicken. Curiously, I became nauseated within minutes but the feeling was fleeting. Within a half hour I noticed many peculiar effects. Audition became enhanced and synesthesias became prominent with multi-modality overflow. I began to taste odors, to small tastes, and even to hear odors and tastes. Visual disturbances were almost non-existent, but I noticed frequent recurrent gustatory, olfactory and auditory flashes. Tactile sensation became markedly enhanced. Occasional moments of nausea occurred during the first two hourse of the experience, but then the pseudo-delirium settled into a profound euphoric state of consciousness. Equilibrium was affected as by ethyl alcohol throughout the intoxication, but mentation in contrast remained unimpaired. After six hours, though still under the Amanita influence, I retired for a night of sound sleep. Frank experienced a state of wellbeing and restfulness without any nausea. He felt a sharpening of auditory, gustatory, and tactile sensations. While taking a shower during the evening, Frank seemed to taste cleanliness and he later slept well.
"A few days later we again tempted our fate but with dried Amanitas. I ate four caps and Frank consumed three. Each of us experienced a pleasant intoxication with only mild sensory alterations including subtle echo patterns. Frank did feel nauseated, however, for the first half hour, but the predominant effect afterwards was induction of euphoria. A nonintoxicated observer noticed no distinctive changes in our behavior."

Alt.Drugs post

I was the sober person for a Amanita muscaria experience with some friends. They consumed some fresh mushrooms with peanut butter, as the taste was horrid. Nothing happened for a while. Then...they all ended up getting sick (vomitting). The illness was brief but violent and unexpected. That passed and the buzz set in. They described it as similar to a few beers. Nothing special, and certainly not worth the experience. They have not done it since and I don't think they will. Based on their experience, I would not recommend it. If you do try it, be careful.

^^^^^^

This sounds somewhat similar to the experience of swim and his friends, though they consumed commercially dried mushrooms and only got slight nausea. Still effects were lacking, a "buzz" is the right word to describe it. Could have been dose related.




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-Abstract-
This report is written to share the lessons learned from a psychedelic session that happened under the influence of Amanita muscaria. There is little compiled information about A. muscaria available, yet the mushroom can be found in the wild and for purchase through online companies, so this report aims to share enough details about one session in hopes that future mistakes will be avoided.

The evening was a traumatic event that produced a variety of experiences for those under the influence and those whom were sober. This report neither condemns nor condones the ingestion of psychedelic substances. If you choose to participate in a session with A. muscaria, this report should be one of many used in your research. Respect for your mind, body, and setting can reduce the harm, which happens with such risky behavior.

-Background-
Amanita muscaria is a large mushroom that is red with white concentric spots on its cap. Also known as the Fly Algaric mushroom or toadstools, the fungus is familiar though its representation in fairy tales. The caterpillar in Alice in Wonderland sits upon one as he smokes from his hooka, while the animated cartoon Smurfs live in them. These mushrooms grow from the spring through the fall at the base of Oak and Birch trees after a rainfall. They are found in the North East & West United States, the Ohio River Valley, Scandinavia, and as far away as Siberia.

The use of A. muscaria as a psychoactive substance is found throughout a variety of sources. Some speculate it may be recorded in the Rig-Veda around 2,000 BC as the sacred 'Soma' consumed and then recycled through drinking the eater's urine. A Native American author, Keewaydinoquay, writes in 1978 of the traditional use of A. muscaria by the Ahnishinaubeg (Ojibway) people who live near Lake Superior in North America. Debates exist between Norse scholars on whether or not the mushrooms were consumed by Viking Bezerkers before going into battle. Recent reports exist as well about the use of the substance in a recreational manner, yet its current spiritual use is rarely heard of.

According to Erowid (www.erowid.org), 'A. muscaria and all other Amanitas are unscheduled in the US. They are legal to sell, possess, or ingest.' This makes it an extremely attractive candidate to use for modern shamanic work conducted within the United States. Scientific research shows that there are two major active chemicals that bring about the unique muscaria experience. Ibotenic acid and muscimol work with a small collection of other constituents. Ibotenic acid is found in greater amounts within a fresh mushroom. In large amounts, its considered toxic causing twitching, dizziness, and nausea. When A. muscaria is dried the ibotenic acid is decarboxylated into the more psychoactive muscimol, multiplying the activity 'by a factor of five or six and reduces the undesirable side effects of fresh Amanita muscaria'. (Psychedelics Encyclopedia, Peter Stafford, chpt 9)

All sources warn about the extreme caution that needs to be used when consuming Amanitas. The white colored relatives of A. muscaria such as A. verna are extremely poisonous. Because only one of the white Amanitas was psychoactive, A. pantherina, it is best to avoid all white mushrooms unless one was an expert at recognizing the different species. Many sources state that potency of A. muscaria can vary greatly mattering on size of the cap and what season is was grown. Johathan Ott, whom witnessed a significant amount of Fly Agaric experiences, urges potential users to 'start with no more than 1/4 -1/2 cup of chopped material'.

With this literature research and the results of a recent, positive, and mild A. muscaria experience. I felt comfortable distributing some A. muscaria to a group of spiritually active people during the fall equinox in 2002. The following describes the experiment.

-Materials & Methods-
1/2 Max Cup of Dried Amanita muscaria
Bananas
Frozen Strawberries
Frozen Blueberries
Soy Milk
Orange Juice
Ice

The above ingredients were blended into a beverage. While working with other companions to create a sacred space during a tattoo ritual, the beverage was served to the following female participants between the hours of 9 & 10 pm.

1st round
V - Smoker, over thirty, over 140 lbs. Took less than 1/2 a cup of the material
L - Mother, smoker, over thirty, over 140 lbs. Took less than 1/2 a cup of the material.

2nd round
S - Non-smoker, over thirty, under 130lbs. Took 1/2 a cup of the material quickly.
D - Non-smoker, under thirty, around 130 lbs. Took close to 1/2 a cup of the material at twice the speed of D.

Leftovers-
I - Non-smoker, under thirty years old, around 140lbs. Took less than 1/2 cup of the material over a slow period of time.

A male guardian was set to watch over the five participants while they were being hosted in a remote house far from any other homes.


-Results-
V was the first to vomit after consuming the material. She was twitching lightly, had multiple out of body experiences giving her a pattern of lucidity moments towards L and the guardian throughout her journey. She fell asleep around 2am and reports of a permanent psychic opening between herself and what could be described as the collective unconsciousness. Total travel time was a five-hours.

L defecated an hour after consumption. Sometime afterwards she vomited. She experienced open-eyed visuals and had minor twitching. She was mostly lucid for the event as she spent time with her buddy V. She fell asleep around 2am and gratefully held her humor about the mess. B had a five-hour journey as well.

S vomited after consumption and maintained some lucidity while she cleaned after herself. She then ran from the hosts and had to be physically restrained for 45 minutes. It was noticed after she was sat still that her whole body was severely shivering and profusely sweating. The sanctuary hosts were seriously concerned about her well being and struggled with the thought of transporting her to a hospital. She was the least lucid in the guardian's opinion. She cleared up around 4am and finally slept around 6am. She reports to have an overwhelming experience that involved significant swings of positive and negative mental, emotional and spiritual levels. D's total journey time was eight hours.

D vomited about an hour or two after consumption. While she was vocally emoting a very positive experience, there was some serious concern about her epileptic-like convulsions from the guardian, male companion, and sanctuary hosts. The group reports that she was not lucid for a significant amount of time. She fell asleep around 3am. Total time was a six-hour journey.

I did not experience any vomiting. Bowl and urinary movements were normal. I experienced mild hand twitches that occurred with specific emotions. Lucidity was phasing in and out during the session and there was plenty of physical vertigo experienced. 2am arrived with a significant experience that was a completely thrilling, high flying, physical and mental exercise. Total time was a six-hour journey.

-Conclusion-
The summarized observations listed in the next paragraph are the specific ones mentioned in other A. muscaria sources that were experienced by the majority of participants during this session.

A. muscaria induces vomiting. Marijuana does not remove the nausea.
A. muscaria affects the body's ability to regulate temperature.
A. muscaria impairs motor coordination and causes mild to severe twitches.
Intense death/rebirth and out of body experiences can happen while under the influence of A. muscaria.

If a group wishes to experiment with this mushroom in a respectful manner, the following are some suggestions on how to proceed.

Start with smaller doses. 1/2 a cup of chopped material sold by the same ethnobotanical company produced very different sessions. Its clear that the product sold by the company can vary in strength. The doses should be given on a gradual basis. One suggestion is 1/8th of a cup of chopped material every two hours.

Establish a clear support system with sober guardians and experimenters before the next session. Complete attention should be given to the process. The session should be treated as a ritual for all involved. For every experimenter, there should be one guardian who will act as an escort, keeping the experimenter away from any dangerous actions. This will hopefully avoid an unsuspecting guardian from suddenly being overwhelmed with serious concerns. If this is not possible, a buddy system should be established for the experimenters. V & L's cooperative empathy should be an example to follow.

Participate in a preparation method such as fasting and stating group intent. The casual manner in which the material was distributed echoed the individual chaotic pieces that each person experienced. If another session happens, anyone whom will interact during the trip should work together as an active, listening group, while each individual still focuses on their own intent.

In summary, what was intended to be a social exploration into the subtle energies within our physical bodies became a stressful evening. While the potential behind these mushrooms becoming a modern spiritual sacrament is large, the hesitation about going through a similar experience subdues the dream. This fungus can teach some unexpected lessons for those whom simply desire psychic playtime. It might be best for you to live the Amanita muscaria experience vicariously through honest reports such as these.

Thank you for reading.

responsibility was stressed
mixed with faith in my body
and love from my friends

more was pushed than anticipated
thank you for your space
more was given than asked for
thank you for the emotional support

Swim finds this report to be quite interesting. The main problem is that instead of listing the amount of grams consumed, they had to list it by cup. Well to clarify this some swim did some searching online to try and find a way to roughly convert 1/2 cup of chopped mushrooms in a weight in grams.


Mushrooms, 4 cups chopped = 3 ounces dried
* Hmm, this would mean 4 cups chopped mushrooms is 85.5 grams worth of dried mushrooms. I don't know if chopped means fresh or dried though. That would come out to 10.69 grams or so per half cup, which isn't too bad a dose. If this is an accurate representation of how much was taken by the person who wrote the report above, maybe the Amanitas consumed were of a higher potency. Or maybe by chopped mushrooms the site meant fresh choped mushrooms, which would be extremely irritating.



8 tablespoons
1/2 cup
4 ounces
113.4 grams
* This would mean that 1/2 cup is 113.4 grams? I somehow think this is referring to liquids only. Sorry for not being swift with all the measurement systems, but swim's not a very experienced cook, and he has been so many places he doesn't know which system of measurement goes where anymore for alot of things.



1 Am. Lbs.
ounce/c
1 cup
1/2 cup
1/3 cup
1/4 cup
1 tbs.
1 tsp.
1/2 tsp.
1/4 tsp.
mushrooms, sliced
5 cups
3.2
90
45.0
30.0
22.5
5.63
1.88
0.94
0.47
mushrooms, cooked
2 cups
8.0
226
113.0
75.3
56.5
14.13
4.71
2.35
1.18
* Ok so this would appear to be yet another fresh mushroom conversion or something, because I seriously doubt that weight of dry mushrooms could fit in there. Anyone know a fairly (or at all) accurate ratio to use to find how much less a dried mushroom weighs than a fresh one? Swim doesn't know how much water weight they lose....

As a general rule mushrooms rehydrate 4 times their dried up weight( so..if you need 4 ounces of fresh shrooms, you need 1 ounce of dried). The only species I'm acquainted with that rehydrates more than this ratio is Marasmius and it tends to be more in the vicinity of almost 5 times their dried weight.

^^^ This seems like it could be potentially useful information, but I don't know how to apply it exactly as I haven't slept in too long. I'll probably have to come back to this.....



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First; the procedure. Make sure the cap to stem ratio is kept about 3:1, the same as it is found per mushroom in the natural state. Dry on screen in the oven on the lowest setting with door cracked open. This only takes an hour or so at most. Render into a powder in a small electric coffee or spice grinder/mill; the finer the better. I try to attain a powder size like baking powder and certainly finer than coffee. This WILL NOT affect the activity of the end product, it only makes ingestion more difficult. Use around 1 cup water per dose and start with a bit more than this to allow for evaporation during processing.
The lower end dose/person is 8 grams dried and the upper end is 15 to 20 grams dried. What follows is the most important part of the entire ritual of preparation. Bring the water up to within a few degrees of 190 degrees (F). Use a high quality candy thermometer or better yet, a lab thermometer. This temperature shouldn't vary more than 22 degrees on the upper end. A little simmering won't kill it, but it is an indication that one has reached at least 212. You'll find stirring lowers the temperature very quickly, but it's best to keep a close eye on things throughout. Once 190 has been reached, stir in the powered material and leave to steep at least 30 minutes. I usually leave it there for at least 1/2 hour to 3/4 hour, stirring frequently.
Allow to cool until warm enough to drink. That's all there is to it!

There was a bunch more information in this report, but none of it was really novel. What I found interesting about this though, was that the writer suggests brining water up to almost simmering and putting already dry mushrooms to steep in it. Would this convert yet more ibotenic acid to muscimol potentially?

Also, like many other people whose reports I've read, this person doesn't mention taste and simply says to drink it when its cool. Funny, as the other tea reciipes I've read have said for the most part that it tastes like crap. Hmmm...

Is there anyway to make a tea or other concoction where consuming the mushrooms themselves isn't necessary? Or at least, any ideas on how this drink could be made better? Like adding actual tea bags, or maybe ginger or other spices, or simple honey and sugar.... Anything to make it taste better basically.

Anyone have experiences with this they would like to share?

l
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The caps were dried slowly on a metal screen in front of a radiant heater (two nights drying -- stored in cupboard during the day), which gives them a nice appeareance and does not appear to make them too 'harsh'. Tea was made by bringing about 12 oz. of water to a FULL BOIL, then adding the caps to the water AFTER it is removed from heat and letting the mixture sit for 30-45 minutes. This reconstitutes the caps and creates the tea. Then the tea was strained and poured into another cup. The caps were disposed of -- I suppose you could eat them, but I don't.

Drank about 6 oz, then waited two hours. Then I drank another 3 ounces, waited an hour and drank the final 3 ounces. I can't say that I enjoy the taste of Amanita Tea, but it's tolerable.

The effect of the Tea is not too strong. Slight visuals: 'things look a little bit alive' and a feeling of well being. I played with my 3-year-old for an hour and a half, and enjoyed every minute of it. Very much a relaxing tonic.

However, I have the feeling that had I prepared the tea with three caps, instead of two, using the same method, the experience would have been better, probably significantly stronger.

The effects last, maybe 4 or 5 hours. Some mild 'flash backs' in the following days, but not unpleasant at all.

I've read a lot of negative reviews of Amanita Muscaria, but in my humble opinion it really is something of a wonder drug. Besides the enjoyable buzz, I felt energized and the nasty cough that had been tormenting me for days disappeared, pretty much for good after I drank the tea.

For the record, I've eaten Dried Amanita, and made tea by boiling dried caps, and smoked the dried caps. This method -- a slow tea as it were, has so far been the best.

Maybe the caps aren't necessary if the tea method is used? The writer of the report said that effects were mild. This is hard to interpret, however, as two caps were described as being used in the tea (its not in the quote, I know) which could be a range of weights. I would guess 3-8 grams if I had to, but can't really know for sure.

Anyone make an Amanita's concoction and get rid of the mushroom itself and still feel effects?




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I had tried dried amanitas the week before, equivilant to about 2 small dried caps, crushed and then stuffed into OO gel caps, and the effect was mildly euphoric and happy. Amanitas grow everywhere in this misty Oregon coast, so a few days later when we found some more, we promptly took them home, cleaned them, removed the stalk and gills and proceeded to dry them in a warm oven with the oven door cracked. This time I decided to do something different, as I like to cook, and I love mushrooms anyway...I decided to make gravy with the amanitas.

We had 8 medium to large mushrooms. First of all, I took the pan the amanitas had dried in and added about 1 1/2 cups of water, and brought that to a slow simmer. To this broth I added garlic, salt, and pepper, the usual homemade gravy stuff. In a separate pan I browned some onions in a little oil, and then added about 2TBS of flour to brown. I then added my mushroom broth to the flour mixture and stirred it constantly while it simmered to make a nice brown gravy. We fixed some sourdough toast to dip in the gravy. The gravy was very tasty, just like Mom used to make...(except Mom's gravy never caused me to hallucinate.) Now my boyfriend ate his gravy without eating the mushroom bits, as he really doens't like a mushroom flavor. I on the other hand ate the gravy with the mushrooms bits. Although we both had very nice trips, complete with enhanced sounds, beautiful colors, visuals, and a vibrating euphoria, I also became very queasy and I threw up. Later I became uncomfortably cold and clammy, and my mouth was very, very wet. In fact my whole body felt wet to me. It was as if i could feel every pore opening up and sweating. Yuck. I kept thinking I was hot, yet I was ice cold.

I believe it was eating the pieces of mushrooms that did this to me. Other than that, it was a very nice trip indeed! I have some more amanitas drying in the oven as we speak, and I plan on doing the gravy thing again. However this time I will only take the broth, and not the mushroom pieces. I wonder how much more interesting Thanksgiving dinner would be if we had Amanita gravy with the turkey? )

This is a more promising report, as the boyfriend - so far as I can tell from the writing - didn't get sick as he didn't eat the mushrooms. Then again, he wasn't writing the report so I don't know if he actually experienced full effects or if the person who wrote the report just assumed such.

At least this report hints at the fact that Amanita Muscaria can be tasty if prepared correctly, which is what I had been hoping for swim's sake.




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DOSE : 10 g oral Amanitas - A. muscaria (tea)
BODY WEIGHT : 190 lb

My first experience with Amanita Muscaria was with 5 gram dosage. It seemed smarter to start out with a light dose to see what the effects might be. This proved to be too small a dose as it produced only very faint effects for an hour or so. My next attempt was to double the dosage to 10 grams. I prepared them by pulverizing the 10 grams of dried Amanita Muscaria v. muscaria in a coffee mill until it had the consistency of sawdust. It was then boiled in water in a covered pot for one hour. Covering the pot should theoretically increase the carboxylization of the Iboteric acid by increasing the pressure slightly inside the pot. The resulting mixture did not have any bitter taste as described in other accounts. I can only guess as to why this might be. It sounds as if all the Ibotenic acid had not been carboxylized in those samples and this might be what produced the bitterness and nausea. (Perhaps the bitterness in the other accounts came from the lemon juice which was added, after all it is not tea and should not be expected to taste like tea) It had a very rich mushroom flavour like an excellent mushroom soup, the next time I will try adding beef bouillon to the liquid. There was also no nausea whatsoever.

I was for the most part relaxed although I was somewhat apprehensive after reading some of the other reports. I kept a bucket handy in case of nausea. After ingesting the mushrooms and broth on an empty stomach it began to occur to me that it might be better to have something in my stomach just to have something to come up if I did get sick. Soon after taking the mushrooms I ate two pieces of pizza. When it became apparent that no sickness was forthcoming I continued to snack on the pizza on and off throughout the evening.

The effects started approximately one hour after ingestion. The best description I can come up with is that it is like having flu, but without feeling sick. Profuse sweating, starting at the top of the head and gradually moving down the body was the most noticeable effect. This was soon joined by extreme cold much like the chills one gets when feverish. As strange as it sounds these effects were not unpleasant. It felt much like being drunk but without any loss of mental faculties. Other than being cold there was a general analgesia something like a narcotic but, again, without the loss of mental faculties. Throughout the evening I was relaxed and in a very good mood. After changing clothes three times because they were drenched with sweat I finally took a warm shower which chased away the chills and seemed to reduce the amount of subsequent sweating. All effects had worn off after about five hours.

After feeling the effects of 10 gms. I will double the dosage on the next attempt possibly adding 5 gm. increments in the future. It seems to me that the important thing is the proper preparation of the mushroom to insure that all of the Ibotenic acid has been converted to Muscimol in order to ensure that there are no toxic effects. This however is conjecture. My experience may be due to the dosage or to variations in the mushrooms themselves. Only additional experimentation will prove this hypothesis.

DOSE : 25 g oral Amanitas - A. muscaria
BODY WEIGHT : 160 lb

My quest for unveiling the maya(illusion) that we live in our everyday experiences began years ago. Since then I have realized that through intense meditation or ethnogenic experiences will one be able to slip into the thousand other realms parallel to our own. The use of psychoactive plants are preferred by me given my lack of my dedication to a lifetime of meditation. Besides, the use of hallucinogens runs in my ancestry as it does to many others. I had run into amanita muscaria a few times in my personal studies of psychoactive plants and mushrooms. Its long time use in human cultures from the ancient Egyptians, Indians (thought to be the main ingredient of the famous Soma drink from the Rig Vedas) and the shamans of Siberia intrigued me. Amanita muscaria is believed by some to be the origin of the legend of Santa Clause and the world known christams holiday. With such claims and history attached to amanita, I knew this was one experience I had to undergo.

I obtained three 4'-6' caps of fly-agaric mushrooms with various size stems. Total weight 25g. The mushrooms were pre-dried and so they were sliced up in 1/2' squares. 6 cups of water was heated in a pot until the water was just barely boiling. The sliced mushrooms were then put into the barely boiling water. Amanita mushrooms contain ibotenic acid and muscimol. The latter believed to be the main ingredient for an ethnogenic experience. It is said that heat changes much of the ibotenic acid which has negative effects on the liver to the much wanted muscimol. The mushrooms were left to boil for an hour and after strained and seperated from the reddish brown liquid. 3 1/2 cups of the liquid was left and the cooked mushrooms sliced where rolled into a ball. 3/4 of the liquid and shrooms were ingested leaving the rest in case more was to taken later if they weren't potent. The taste was unruly and I found that sucking a lime afterwards help some. The full effects should be felt in two hours, if not the rest was to be downed.

The first 30 minutes were spent in holding down my bulging stomach. Alot was ingested. Nausea was bareable. I should note that I fasted for a day, which is good practice when ingesting psycoactive plants and mushrooms, I had no clue as to what I was to expect accept for other peoples' experiences. At the 45 min. interval my skin became flush and I started to sweat profusely. A feeling of a drunken state came on with the symptoms. A heaviness of the feet began soon afterwards and continued up through my legs to the hips and then to my torso. At the 55 min. interval speech was not possible and walking was dificult. Mild distortion in perception was present. The 'walls and floor are breathing' is the best way to describe it. The room and contents did not appear to be real, but more like a realistic hologram. A cautious, yet curious feeling was felt instead of a full euphoric feeling since this was my first time after all. Powerful electric surges began to eminate from my navel and spread like a ripple in water to the rest of my body mostly felt in my head. These powerful deep electrical surges began to intenify as the 1st hour passed. Powerful enough that focusing of the eyes was impossible. I could not read a single page of a book. The feeling best to describe this is to stand up and spin half around very quickly and stop abruptly and spin half around again and continue this process then increase the speed and shorten the spins to quarter turns and so on. You could then see that the disorientation was very great almost overwhelming.

That is when anxiety started to kick in. I looked at the clock and I was only in an hour not even the beginning and was experiencing convulsions and powerful surges that no drunken state, hallucinating phase, or any other state had ever produced. I knew then that I had ingested to much amanita for my body weight. I kept a cool head and just had to go along with the experience. There was no way out! At the two hour mark I had to lie down on the floor where I layed down blankets and pillows and had house-techno music playing to keep me in a tribal like trance. Then convulsions at that time where so great the only way to describe it is to imagine lying on a bed of 12'inch subwoofers and having a deep bass note play at short burts. Again starting from the navel and radiating out. As I layed down, I noticed an upside down cone (invisible, but yet discernable. Similar to the the 3D art pictures where an object appears from a background but still retains the backgrounds color.) starting from my navel and spreading to the cosmos. The cone was spinning in a clockwise direction from my perspective. It was the most amazing thing I have seen so far. I soon realized I was oberserving the life line that every living thing has connecting it to the cosmic (implicit) realm. I heard about that lifeline or tentacles in many Hindu literature and also Carlos Castaneda literature, but never thought I would see it in my day (this life at least). But the experience was short lived.

I blacked out 2 1/2 hours into the experience. I awoke in my bed to the music ending which most likely put me in trance and I felt unimagineable pulses through my body. I felt that my body and especially my head were going to explode. It was very frightening. This experience is not for the light hearted. Rarely in ones life does one experience such a powerful cosmic energy. I believe that that energy is too raw for a mind that is not very close to acheiving enlightenment. Very humbling. I got up frightened and tried to walk around. Then it happened. The powerful surges which pulsed at a constant rate started to slow down and decrease in intensity. My conciousness was not focused in my head as is usually, but above and beyond my head. It was an out of body experience. As the pulses slowed down greately but still vibrated deeply and these pulses where the only thing I could hear, my view began to become tunnel vision. If someone knows how your vision is when you black out black out, this is how it was. I lossed it. I believed I had taken to much amanita and my death was definite, yet I was going to face it in an altered state. I had mistaken the surges for my heart beat and as they slowed down to a beat per second I freaked and tried to call the ambulance and made a scene. They don't call them bezerkers for nothing.

Looking back, it was not death that approached me, but the cosmic realm that my consciousness approached through my lifeline eminating from my navel and then in a repeated cycle came back to my body where I would awaken and then sent back to the cosmos repeating itself over and over again. I thought that I was approaching death for the last time that fateful morning, but little did I realize that I was returning home for the first time.

Comparing these two experiences is interesting....


The person who weighed more took less amanita's and actually boiled the water. This was the person who get less effects.

The person who weighed less took over twice as many amanita's and simmered the dry mushrooms in water. Way too intense effects to be pleasant at all it sounds from the description.


The question is... What made the biggest difference? Weight vs. Amanita Potency vs. Water Temperature?

Weight was definitely a factor, but its hard to gauge how much of one. Mushroom potency is essentially impossible to evaluate with the information provided.


The water temperature's effect on the experience is far more interesting to swim. If the person who wrote the first report prepared 25 grams of Amanita instead of 10 grams, but in the same style (i.e. boiling water), I think the effects would be stronger, but would the side effects? Also, if the person who only simmered the water and let the Amanita's steep used 10 grams would he get stronger effects than the man who boiled the mushrooms? Would the side effects have been more severe if 10 grams were simmered instead of boiled?

I don't know if anyone on these forums can do any more than speculate as to the possible answers to these questions, but if anyone has an idea or knowledge of the impact of heat on Amanita's and their effects (Non-anecdotal evidence would be nice, though it seems hard to find. Observations from an experienced user would be great too!) or any possible use of manipulating water temperature when making Amanita broth/tea it would be appreciated.



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live in Brazil, in the very south of the country. Here in my state (Parana), in winter we have some damn cold temperatures, and I discovered that we had Amanita muscarias avalailable by the Kilo. When we first try the experience, we dried about 60 specimens in the oven at 80 degrees Celsius for about half an hour, with the oven half open. Then we made a tea and divided between 6 people: every single one of them got sick (4 vomited). I was one of the 4, but before that I had the beginning of pleasant effects: body felt kind of light, mind was clearly more controllable (without a tornado of thoughts that is usually hard to control) and visual distortion (not heavy).

Then we tried about 4 other times, all of them with around the same amount of mushroom, sometimes leaving the mushrooms more toasted, other times less but in every single one the nausea was pretty bad. Then I talked with this teacher of the Federal University down here, that told us that we should take the red skin OFF! She is Swiss and is a teacher of anthropology that studies ethnomycology (the study of mushroom interections with cultures). Back in Italy (where she lived), they used to ingest this way, she said, and the nausea was reduced tremendously! I tried and really realized that, eating just 1 Amanita without the red skin, and had a very weird, I would say, but pleasant trip.

Anyone attempt to take the red skin off before consumption? Haven't heard of this before, though it sounds interesting.



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I just discovered this recipe last night and I must share with the rest of our little community.

I had recieved an ounce of amanitas a day prior to this experience and had a rather ho-hum trip. I have tried aminitas on numerous occasions ranging in dose from 2.5 to 7.5 dry grams and have found it to be a very interesting spirit. However, if you have had the displeasure of dining on these mushrooms you have probobly discovered the taste to be less than pleasent. Trying to avoid having to eat them again (as I find the lingering taste in my mouth to be a source of nausea) I considered making a tea out of them.

I could not have imagined then what a good idea this was. I only used 7 grams in the tea and split it with a friend (making each dose only about 3.5 grams per person) but the trip was definitley more powerful than my previous experience at 7.5 grams, especially in the area of visuals and sedation.

The first few hours of the experience were quite nice. I was in a very relaxed environment (my home) and with people I can stand while trippin so set and setting were in line with a good trip.

It started out with a comfortable sedated feeling for roughly 3.5-4 hours comparable to a moderate dose of opium (not what I expected from a mushroom but VERY, VERY euphoric and chill). Then at roughly t+ 4:00 the trip changed to being more like a drunk feeling that was comparable to the earlier state with more energy and a little less of a 'damn this couch is the most comfortable thing I have ever sat in' feeling as before.

At approximetley 5 hours the trip started to actually become what I would classify a trip. I started to get light visual distrubances and things had a wavey look to them almost as if under water. It was not a mind blowing heavy visual trip like large doses of acid but more of a 'wow, everything just looks soooo COOL'. All in all a pleasent experience and a lot more than I was expecting at just 3.5 grams. By the way, my buddy had an experience very much in line with mine.

And finally the recipe:

1. boil an amount of water you don't mind drinking once it tastes like shit (because it will).
2. add a few crushed up vitamin c pills or lemon juice (this adds acidity to the water all though I am not sure this is neccessary)
3. add your mushies
4. boil for 15 minutes
5. for the last three minutes of boiling add a tea bag to cover up the taste of the shrooms.
6. strain mixture; discard mushies.
7. let cool and add a large amount of sugar.
8. drink it down

You can boil this mixture down to a very small amount of liquid for drinking purposes. This recipe produced very little nausea for me (less, in fact, than a previous time I ate 1.5 grams-and a whole lot more effective) and any that was produced was easily dealt with with a little canabis.

Please enjoy this recipe. Use it and the aminita mushroom responsibly to assure this powerful ally can remain legal and respected by those who know it's true power.

Yet another tea recipe that advocates boiling the mushrooms in the water rather than adding them to simply steep...

Interesting that the person who wrote this reported increased effects and little nausea. Its hard to tell what this means. The dose was fairly low, and it isn't known whether the mushrooms were the same ones the writer used in previous experiences (including the 7+ gram one). Somewhat promising though.




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And the final outside quote I'll be using today....

Amanita muscaria can be "WELL" cooked and eaten in Scrambled eggs, beans, soups etc in small quantities (30 to 40 g. fresh weight) with good results. They are quite tasty like this and have been reported as giving a general sense of well-being. Notice I stressed, "Well" cooked, they should be cooked first to a well-done state so as to convert most of the Ibotenic acid to Muscimol (see below).

Ok... This is from James Arthur's website.

Some interesting facets here. He says that Amanita Muscaria can be "WELL" cooked and combined with other foods to create a tasy hallucinatory meal.

First off, does anyone have an idea as to the effects of temperature on Muscimol, Ibotenic Acid, and whatever else may come into play? Swim is still thoroughly confused due to the lack of scientific data on this subject combined with the huge variety in anecdotal evidence.

Also, if swim has already dried mushrooms would he still be able to cook them?




Well swim lied, he forgot to add one more quote. See below.

DOSE : T+ 0:00 1.5 g oral GHB (liquid) T+ 0:15 15 g oral Amanitas - A. muscaria (plant material) oral Ginger (tea)
BODY WEIGHT : 147 lb

We were hungry and went grocery shopping (what a disaster that was!) but came back with our supplies along with tons of food... We were going to take them differently this time. I vaguely recall reading a few different perparations, and the most common seems to be in a tea. Once, I read that someone sauteed the mushrooms--that's almost what we did. We've tried grinding them up in a coffee grinder and then encapsulating them, and we get mountains of powder and hundreds of capsules to swallow if we want at least ten grams. No thanks. I ground them up once and mixed them into a fruity gelatin--do not do that. Do not do not. The mushroom powder is dispersed unevenly and it's gross and ugh. We've also just eaten them--that was hard. The crispy bland flavor just was edible once--I couldn't do it again. It was not bad, but my stomach gave me that 'what are you even thinking about eating' sort of tenseness that rejected the mushrooms regardless of it not being terrible.

So this time, we decided to have a swirly to drink (orange soda, grape soda, etc, mixed together) with a little GHB to calm us down. That was at 1:45pm. We also had a pizza we bought, pre-prepared but not frozen, and thought to put the mushrooms on that. I counted out 30 grams and you know what, that's a lot on a pizza. We decided to just bake the pizza anyway. I decided let's sautee them, and I grabbed the cookbook--it was essentially melt a lot of butter and throw herbs and salt into it. Mix. Throw in mushrooms. Wait 10 minutes, then eat! This is a receipe I can follow.

I combined:
2 teaspoons of olive oil
10 teaspoons of butter
4 cut sprigs is fresh Thyme
2 teaspons of Golden Balsmic Vinegar
Some garlic salt
Some onion salt

And I mixed it up. Nothing to do with the recipe, aside from the butter...(It should be noted that I started to write this submission a good 1.5 hours after ingesting the mushrooms).

At 2m, we started to eat them. We did not add the mushrooms to the melted butter mixture when cooking, rather, we allowed them to soak a bit before eating them. It should also be noted that we had previously dried the mushrooms in the oven--they were sitting around, waiting to be used.

For nausea, my girlfriend prepared ginger tea for us. We actually purchased ginger root and cut it up. I suppose we had about a rhizome (I can't spell it) perhaps the size of her thumb and used that. This made for a pretty strong pot of tea, but the ginger can be reused once. (which we did, but ended up not needing to drink it). Also keeping in mind that a little food with the mushrooms is good for preventing nausea, we had a small amount of sushi rolls, perhaps three for both of us. By the time we started eating, the GHB had begun to kick in, and I had started playing music from the theme of the Animatrix. I took off my shirt, leaving my undershirt on, as I recall AM made me sweaty. Unfortunately, she did not disrobe!

Anyway... The meal was pleasant. The mushroom preparation was fantastic, I cannot suggest it enough. There was no mushroom taste--it was all butter and garlic and mm mmm mmmm. Good stuff. We ate everything--stems, heads,caps, gills, halves, remnants. The stems had to soak a little longer than the caps, and were a little odd to eat (we were using the chopsticks we used for the sushi, this actually worked out very well over all), but we managed.

I started to feel my first signs of stomach disruption perhaps at... 2:36. Nothing big. Just like it didn't know what to do with what I had given it. I had actually finished eating at 2:30, she still had perhaps three small caps to go at that time.

By 2:47, I was putting laundry away, and she was putting away the dishes. I could feel something happening, not unpleasant. The best I can relate it to (and I am still feeling it now and then at 3:39) is a niacin flush, without looking flushed and not so intense in the sensation. It first started in my abdominal area, and then relocated (not flowed) to my face. It felt like I was getting a niacin rush in my eyes by 3:00. Very interesting, not unpleasant at all. By 3:10, my vision was becoming blurry--I had started to write a list of things to do for the next day, and when I looked up to idly stare across the room and think, I noticed I couldn't read any of the book titles on my book shelf. At this point I decided to head to the computer and start writing a trip report.

3:43--I just finished writing everything you've read. Presently, my wrists are sweating, I feel that 'flush' in my cheeks. My arms are sweating, heck, now that I've done the full body scan, I am sweating. Eyes are not dilated. GF is nowhere to be found, and music is not playing.

3:45--Found GF. She's reading a book, or, she's trying to. She is unable to focus and her vision is becoming blurry. Mine is so blurry now that I would be unable to drive if in otherwise perfect condition. I cannot approximate the visual acuity that I have, but focus drops off after a few feet. Hunched over a keyboard, I guess I can understand not noticing the vision go so quickly.

I find that when walking, I sometimes make an exaggerated movement.

Now I find that I am sweating, perhaps more like misting the sweat rather than raining it, and that I am chilly. I can feel the chill mostly on my arms, which are exposed. The house temperature is about 65, which is about where I like it. I have to attribute the chills to the mushrooms. I can now feel a patch of wetness forming on my upper back, but I'm not cold there--it seems the chills are mostly going up and down my arms, and my hands now are feeling... hmm.. a pleasurable tingly chill, but like they are sweating--the backside of my palms are. I paused from typing to rub my face, and I felt a chill on my face wherever my hand touched. Not a chill--a sudden cold feeling, followed immediately by a cessation of the cold and instead it was being pleasurable--like a woman's hair brushing against my skin. It's 3:51 and I'll go find something else to report...

My GF and I had been waiting to do these for a while. It has been a few years since our last experience, and at the time, she was doing great and had a wonderful time and I didn't feel much of anything. We had made a stirfry once to try to ingest them, and I don't believe we got an even split. We intended to have 10 grams each, but that doesn't seem to be the case. So she did great and I sat around bored.

Anyway, this time, we decided we wanted to do them during the day, as normally our experiences were at night. (We believe it was from when we lived with our parents, we'd wait until they go to bed--it became somewhat of a tradition to take something at night).

3:54-- GF says she sees rainbow patterns underneath the text of the book she is reading. I believe I see them now and then, too, when I am writing.

4:14--Finally saw some visuals. I was reading, and listening to Chapterhouse (GF was still reading). I looked up at one point to, again, stare blankly in space and ponder, and saw the reflection of a pool of water on the wall, as it dappled. (Yes, there was water to cast that reflection, it happens daily on schedule based on if the sun's out and where it's at in the sky). As I looked at it, I noticed what I thought were.. very faint.. jellyfish... mounted on the wall. Not mounted, but floating there. I closed my eyes and could very faintly see them, but better with them open. The wall was white, the jellyfishlikewhateveritwas was yellow.

I soon noticed the outline of many of them, all swimming in place, pointing in different directions. When I turned my head, they did not go with my field of vision. I turned my head completely and looked back, they were still there, but I was able to see them from a different angle and side depending on how I turned my head. Also, I have had (and so has my GF) frequent bouts of salivation. For no reason, whammo, I need to swallow a lot of saliva. I am still sweating frequently and it is still enjoyable to type, as it gives my hands a pleasurable sensation. My GF hasn't anything new to report other than further deterioration of vision and the rainbows in her reading have become more pronounced, like if she had a the 'sudden magic rainbow' active desk or something stupid like that.

5:00--we've eaten some of the pizza, had more soda... that's about it. It is a pleasant day, everything feels pleasant... The dapple on the wall is gone, and instead of jellyfish like things, there were circles that would grow and shrink into themselves, perhaps like a winamp visual, although in yellow wireframe. I am no longer sweating, but did so for most of the time so far. We are thinking about eating the cookie dough that I bought. The last few times, food tasted SO GOOD when deeply affected by AM. We were hoping the same would happen, and bought some things we like but don't normally have... in hopes it will be better.

One change (this is still the same stream of thought--or my brain is a runaway freight train) is that I am now actually feeling a bit cold. When reading, I felt momentarily like I was close to having too much to drink (alcohol), but when I realized it was grape soda I was drinking, the feeling immediately went away.

I feel extra energy, and lazy... at the same time. I decided to test if the energy meant strength, and picked up one of the dumbbells neither of us use that we have laying around... it was profoundly heavy. I lifted it over my head and put it back down, and could feel the sinews in my right elbow work and something pop as I lifted and lowered the weight. This is not to say I'm a skinny computer geek--I work out on a daily basis (ok, so I'm just a computer geek). But this dumb bell was 5 pounds (and I used my right arm), and I am accustomed to lifting 40 lbs over my head with my right arm. So it is interesting--I feel like I could do pushups or situps or whatever, and the moment I start, ehhh tired, the energy isn't there. If it's the thought that counts, it's not accomplishing much... I just did two pushups. I think I felt and heard every bone in my left hand pop or crack. After that, I decided perhaps I could do something else; take my pulse. My pulse is 88; it typically is about 60.

5:41 -- well, nothing too exciting. We ate the cookie dough. She was in bliss. I guess that's excited. She ate and sat and stared and moaned as she at it, saying how great it was. It tasted to me like... cookie dough. Not good, not bad, but like I was not hungry, and not particularly affected even though it is a treat. (she also likes to eat dietary disasters as much as she can, and perhaps that is part of it).

With the situation of bliss in mind, we engaged in some exercises... This worked out pretty well, as I was able to go to the hilt, where on normal occasions, I was forbidden to do so due to her having pain. It was quite different; she actually encouraged the behavior. Not wanting to be one to disappoint...

5:42 Unfortunately this didn't last nearly as long as either of us hoped, but the bed felt so nice and tactile sensations were so pleasant, we decided to take a nap. I recall at one point having a very vivid, colorful, if somewhat nonsensical dream, and being warned to ignore the noises I heard. What I heard sounded like popping.. explosions.. gunshots! I woke up. I heard fireworks outside. Here it is, the first time I take a nap with something that... well. No sense getting into that. I quickly started to focus on what I was dreaming on, and it was slipping away at light speed. What made sense before I woke up suddenly seemed so surreally stupid I don't know how I was so accepting of it. Then, I couldn't remember what it was! Dejected, I laid back down and fell back asleep.

7:30--I awoke, needing to use the bathroom (I had no plans to save any for later usage). GF was giggling in her sleep.

7:45 I had decided to actually get up, feeling quite refreshed, when she suddenly asked how I felt, and I told her (and relayed all of the above to her that she had missed). She, too, had been awoken by the fireworks outside, so I knew it wasn't just me dreaming them and waking myself up with the idea. She was unable to recall any of her dreams, but was not keen on the idea of getting out of bed. She did express an interest in alcohol, but I am not so sure that would be a good idea, so I declined. (Absinthe she wanted, in particular, and while this mushroom trip was more of a trip to the mailbox and back rather than a full-blown one, I am still skeptical the liver would be too happy with alcohol, let alone absinthe, in addition to the AM).

8:00--that's now. No more chills. Just realized vision is much better (yet, that's how I knew it was 7:30, 7:45--clock across room I was in was legible). No flush feelings, no visuals. I feel quite pleasant though. Like I spent the entire day doing nothing and thoroughly enjoyed it. It wasn't even like I was upset with the time spent waiting for the effect--someone else had said their feeling was as if they were embraced, rather than grabbed, and feel more like someone patted my head and praised me for getting good grades or something. Since I am an adult, that sensation is not something I have experienced in quite some time--at least, I haven't taken praise that way in quite some time.

GF says she feels very nice, upset there wasn't more, but not disappointed at all.

There seems to be a trend of experience reports involving thorough cooking of Amanitas or boiling into tea having lesser effects and lesser side effects. Plus, while many people say the taste is disgusting (swim personally agrees at the present moment) people who cook up their Amanitas tend towards either mild dislike or enjoyment of the taste.



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Sorry if I went a bit overboard there with all the information, but this is bothering swim that there is such a lack of cohesive evidence as to the effects of Amanita Muscaria, the best method of preparation (besides drying the mushies ahead of time, seems like most people agree on that), how to avoid side-effects, etc.


If anyone on the forums is able to answer any of the questions asked above, that would be appreciated.



If anyone on the forums has a decent amount of experience with Amanitas Muscaria and feels they know how to use it correctly your knowledge would be IMMENSELY helpful and appreciated. Swim is specifically looking for the best method to prepare Amanita Muscaria so that there aren't too many side effects during the experience, and possibly so that he can actually enjoy eating the mushrooms instead of wanting to simply die because of his taste buds. Any other tips or suggestions would be welcome as well. Thank you.

Reputation Comments on this post:

thx for sharing that large pool of knowledge

[inpsydout]

A shaman happened to know the answer after watching the moon during the whole night long yesterday. He said this video had the answer http://youtube.com/watch?v=ffDPTKn7HiY , but it could not be read by the people of the West. Japanese anyone?

[The Dreamer]

Okay, here's the theory I've come up with:

It appears that cooking the mushrooms may have something to do with the decarboxylation of ibotenic acid (toxic, causes muscle twitching and hallucinations) into Muscimol (non-toxic and 10x more halucinogenic) or perhaps it helps to convert muscazone(toxic) and muscarine(toxic, causes sweating, salivation and nausea) into something less toxic. But exactly how this all works I don't know exactly.

Also, I've noticed that sources who talk about cooking usually recomend 180F degrees as an absolute cap. This would melt everything but Muscimol (melts at about 185F) and since the most potent part is just under the skin of the caps this may boil everything but Muscimol out into the water.

So my cat is going to:

Dry them completely to decarboxylize as much ibotenic acid as possible then boil them at about 170-180 F and let most of the toxins seep out. This should increase potency and reduce discomfort. But this is based on very limited knowledge. The skin on the cap should be peeled off and discarded also. I'll post again after he's tried this.

[Bajeda]

Will be interested to hear about the results.

One question though; why should the skin on the cap be peeled off and discarded? Wondering about the logic behind this, specifically any references would be nice (though understandable if hard to produce).

[Panthers007]

I have no idea where the 'peel the skin' rumor came from - but none of Bongo's cohorts ever did this - and all are happily alive and well.

I've seen quite a few assays of A. Muscaria. None of these contained more than a tiny trace of muscarine*
- although the mushroom was named after this compound. Strange, eh? Yup. Also there is a German extraction mentioned in the Merck Index. It was for extracting bufotenine from these. They seem to be mistaken as no further assays ever found any 5-OH-n,n-DMT in these.

* - so small as to be physiologically insignificant.

[The Dreamer]

I really should keep a running tally of my sources but I haven't been. Here's one that Alfa posted in the documents section:http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/loc...tid=64&id=1744

It talks about the traditional Mexican practice of removing the skin on pages 133 and 134 so it is a well established practice. It also explains in the same area that most of the Muscimol is just under the skin.

So (and I stress that this is just my own theoretical suggestion) if you were to heat a pot of water and soak the dried mushrooms for a long period of time the other compounds (or at least the remaining ibotenic acid) would melt and seep out into the water (the Mexican natives discarded the water after boiling so they weren't extracting the Muscimol they were removing something else) while (I'm guessing) the solid Muscimol would remain in the amanita. I think that the removal of the mushroom's skin may be an additional attempt to remove ibotenic acid that hasn't seeped out entirely.

But this all depends on how porous amanitas are and whether or not muscimol would leak through into the water in its solid state. I think the amanitas would have to be whole and without too many rips in the skin when they enter the pot.

Panthers007 muscarine poisoning tends to cause perspiration and salivation. The vast majority of experience reports that I've read mention this also. I just assumed there was a connection. How sure are you that muscarine isn't present in any significant quantity?

[Panthers007]

Quite sure. I'm quite familiar with muscarine and the nature of the poisoning it causes. And modern research - quantitative analysis - shows extremely low levels, if any present at all. It's possible this mushroom was confused with Clitocybe Dealbata* as they do occur in the same habitat. Who knows? But muscarine, and bufotenine, has been found absent. Occasionally just low levels of muscarine. With bufotenine never being found since the German report from the 1920's. Who knows what it was they found and thought to be bufotenine? The report went on to state they crystallized the bufotenine out as a picrate.

* - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitocybe_dealbata

[The Dreamer]

Does heat destroy Muscimol/Ibotenic Acid because I have heard of people smoking Muscarias before so I assumed not. However, my cat was experimenting with some for the past few days and found that on the first two occasions he got no effect. Then on the third he did get some effect.

I told my cat that it may have been due to the fact that he had heated the Amanitas the first two times, first with some just boiled spaghetti and second directly in the microwave. The third time he made a chocolate smoothie and it worked just fine. He did the first two in one day and the third a day or two later. Meaning that the first two didn't help to build up a dose for the third.

My cat thinks I am crazy because he has seen many posts about smoking Amanitas. But perhaps if heat is applied over a long period it may break them down? Does anybody have an answer to my cat's riddle?

Oh, the chocolate smoothie method worked wonders for my cat by the way. He's found that only chocolate or hot sauce (Frank's in his case) will cover the taste up properly. He used some chocolate sauce to cover up the taste and a few chunks of a chocolate bar to cover up the texture and he blended the mushies first with some olive oil until they looked like oatmeal to soften them.

It would have been perfect if my cat was not allergic to milk. But I suggest adding some; it might end up tasting pretty good.

[Bajeda]

Were the Amanitas prepared in any way (i.e. heating to convert ibotenic acid) before making the smoothie preparation?

[Lobsang]

Well possibley the best information to look into preperation of Amanita Muscaria is Hawk "The Soma Shaman". He has a book and DVD on preperation. He is strange but has 30 years of experience with Amanita.

[The Dreamer]

The Amanitas where cooked until paper-like at 170 the first time the second time my cat just left them the way they came since the first attempt failed (they were already pretty dry). But on both occasions they touched something that was steaming (ie 212 degrees F) before consumption.

And actually the third time I believe that my cat's experience was due to the Cannabis he smoked two hours later (no effect until then). His friend had a similar experience that only precipitated after he smoked. I think there is some sort of synergistic effect between Amanitas/shrooms/LSA/Cacti and Cannabis as the strange highs my cat experiences don't seem similar to either and last about 10 hours.

[leadcoffin]

Some ethnobotanical sites are now offering an A. muscaria resin -- of which my priestess knows not the composition. Perhaps I can persuade her into more research.

[Panthers007]

I would be very worried about any "extract" of a. muscaria. At least with the dried mushroom off the net, you can examine it. But who knows what some kid on eBay found in his yard and boiled in rubbing-alcohol?

Be afraid. Be VERY afraid.

[leadcoffin]

Originally Posted by Panthers007

I would be very worried about any "extract" of a. muscaria. At least with the dried mushroom off the net, you can examine it. But who knows what some kid on eBay found in his yard and boiled in rubbing-alcohol?

Be afraid. Be VERY afraid.

the vendor certainly wasn't forthcoming with listing (if any) active ingredients. Of course, it's only an incense and not intended for human consumption.

[Lobsang]

Well there are suppliers that I would trust. But one needs to be very careful.

[Panthers007]

Originally Posted by leadcoffin

the vendor certainly wasn't forthcoming with listing (if any) active ingredients. Of course, it's only an incense and not intended for human consumption.

I wonder how long it will be before someone figures out that burning incense leads to "human consumption?" If you are lighting something on fire in order to breathe the vapors - you are consuming it. I'll wait...

[Lobsang]

It is cat incense

[The Dreamer]

I agree, anything I purchase is solely for the breathing pleasure of my cat. He seems to enjoy it.

[psyche]

One question though; why should the skin on the cap be peeled off and discarded? Wondering about the logic behind this, specifically any references would be nice (though understandable if hard to produce).

Strange. I've read somewhere, a long time ago, that if one would want to try smoking A. Muscaria, he should peel off the skin because it's the most potent part. Not throw it away.

Anyway, SWIM's brother had an experience with Amanitas, but it wasn't a pleasent one. Somewhere around 22:00 SWIM's brother, whom I will call M for short, ate couple of mushrooms that were partially dried. He didn't finish them but ate the drier parts and left the center uneaten. A little while later M became nauseous and appeared a little bit drunken, so they proceeded to smoke some weed outside. After that M decided to get to his own room to lay down because of the nausea.

At about 24:00 SWIM heard some rambling at the other end of the house. After a while wondering what's that he heard loud shouting and cursing, so he went off to see what's going on there. When he opened the door he saw M holding an egyptian stone-cat statue and shouting at the top of her lungs, sounding very frightened and angry. He dropped the statue and SWIM started to tell him everything is all right and asking him what's going on, but after a while he noticed that M wouldn't see or hear him but just kept on shouting. They weren't even alone, but there was SWIM's youngest brother sleeping in the next room with his friend, and they had no clue what was going on.

SWIM had to stay there to keep an eye of M because he wouldn't stay still but would jump up all the time and fall down as soon as he got up. He had obviously been hitting walls and desks in his room before SWIM came in and the pain just got him more furious. Eventually the youngest brother came in to see what's going on and he was understandably shocked, but stayed there to help SWIM out. Once they weren't careful enough and M fell head first to the floor and hit his eyecorner, getting a decent sized wound and making him shout and struggle like madman. They had to watch him for three hours after which M finally calmed down enough to sleep.

SWIM and his brother kept keeping an eye of M in case he would wake up. Checking his breathing and pulse, they took turns to watch him. SWIM thought that M would sleep it off and they would get to explain to him in the morning how messed up it had got. But when M started slowly so some signs of waking up, at around 6AM, when it'd been 8 hours from the ingestion, SWIM slowly made the depressing realization that M still couldn't talk anything coherent and didn't have a clue where he was. He made loud moaning sounds, like trying to clear one's throat, which was propably explained by a bruise in his throat, which he had to have hit somewhere, propably on the desk. He started moving around a little and puked a couple of times on a bedware he was sleeping on on a floor, and soiled himself too.

In the midst of all that they had to try to keep it from his father, who was, on top of all, very anti-drug. He had been sleeping on another house on the yard and came in for a while before going to work to eat a breakfast. Ofcourse he had to peek in the room at some point, as if it wouldn't have been hard enough night. I don't remember what he said, but he was frightened and angry and didn't and shut the door soon and stormed off. It must've been quite a sight, the room all messed up, blood stains on a bed and M lying on the floor in the middle of puke.

After an hour he decided to finally call an ambulance, because he didn't have the energy to hold his brother longer, and it'd been almost 12 hours after the ingestion, and M still hadn't got a contact of the outside world. It was a great relief that it was finally going to be over and he could get sleep. Ofcourse he had been a bit worried about M's health, too, because no one knew how badly he'd been hitting his head before he came in.

His brother was released the next day from the hospital. He had slowly came too during the day he was submitted in and started realizing were he was. He was so glad to be alive, even though he woke from hospital. From his perspecive, he had thought he had gotten in hell. He didn't know what was going on, but there were painfull strikes regurarly and he could do nothing to stop them. He was amazed because he didn't think hell existed, but had to believe when he found himself in midst of it. He had a sense that he needed to struggle to win the hell, and that's why he was furiously trying to get up all the time. His eyecorner got stiched, and his throat was soar for a couple of days, but otherwise he was allright. They had tested his urine so he had to go to meetings with social workers afterwards.

So, while this kind of reaction may be rare, be prepared for it. M thinks the fact that he went asleep was a cause for this kind of reaction. He said he has read of other people go completely oblivious to the external world when they have fallen asleep, too. It was still exceptionally long, well over 12 hours spent in completely another world.

[Bajeda]

What did the urine test results show?

[psyche]

They revealed the use of cannabis. I guess that's the only drug that showed up. And SWIM told the paramedics he had eaten fly agaric mushrooms.

[The Dreamer]

That sounds awful. I think perhaps that what is happening to all of us is that we aren't converting all of the Ibotenic Acid to Muscimol and perhaps in swiy's brother's case most of it was still Ibotenic Acid.

Maybe the drying helps but one should still boil them. I saw a video from Japan where a very strange (and often nude) individual cooked them in a pan (apparently higher than 140 degrees F). Next time I'm going to try and boil them like in the reports that Bejeda posted earlier.

And Lobsang I think I'm going to buy the book from that Soma person. Thanks.

[Bajeda]

Soup was absolutely disgusting to eat, especially by the end, but as mentioned previously, was the only truly effective method for my panda.

Originally Posted by Bajeda

Now swim has taken amanitas about 4 times before, and only on two occaisions did he get actual psychedelic effects. Ironically, the two times he did get effects he ate them in the most disgusting ways. First time he made a tea with friends that a girl messed up by putting tons of orange peels and honey and sugar in because she couldnt stand the smell, which of course only made it 10x worse! The other time he did it he threw close to 9 grams of really terrible quality Amanitas (they had random roots and dirt on them that swim could barely get out, plus they were disintegrating) into a bowl of already prepared ramen noodles and ate as fast as possible until he got to the end when the taste was horrible so he couldn't drink the remaining soup. So the consumption in these cases was terrible, but the experiences were actually fairly enjoyable, though only the ramen one got any truly psychedelic effects (such as floating around inside the GPS system of swim's friend's car!).

[Lobsang]

Well after reading a lot. I will say this. I think that if a person was to eat these mushrooms they would be best off starting with a very small abount. And then each day eat a little more and then just get to the threshold amount. Then gradually increase over time. Perhaps the body can be more effective at converting the chemistry of the mushroom. That the body can be conditioned. I suspect that this is the case. Because the soma shaman guy says he eats these mushrooms daily. And he seems to indicate that one becomes more able to do it with time.

You know like cigarettes. At first when you smoke they feel very toxic but then after the body chemistry changes they no longer feel that way. I suspect from what I have read that there is a conditioning process going on here. So one might consider gradually increasing the dose over time as I said.

[The Dreamer]

My cat didn't find them toxic at all. He just didn't have much of an experience.