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SWIM was recently prescribed zopiclone for his insomnia. SWIM would compare his first experience of 7.5mg as a small line of ketamine. His thoughts slowed down and he was unable to carry a full thought for more than about 5-10 seconds before he forgot what he was thinking about. He also experienced a heaviness in his body (especially in his legs) and impaired balance. It wasn't very effective as an insomnia cure (SWIM just stayed up for the next 3 hours feeling half asleep until he finally passed out).
The next day SWIM felt half-conscious from a combination of sleep deprivation and feeling spaced-out from the zopiclone hangover. He even had to leave work because he felt so "out of it".
SWIM tried the pills again, this time taking 11.25 mg. He fell alseep quicker this time (within the hour), and was able to get about 13 hours of sleep in. When he woke up he still felt groggy and spaced out. He called in sick to work and spent the day relaxing on his couch. As the day went on, he felt better and better. The psychological side effects that SWIM experienced from the zopiclone made him feel twice as bad. Granted he was also experiencing unpleasant effects from his lack of sleep, but he felt much worse the days following his zopiclone use.
SWIM experienced a relapse in his HPPD symptoms during this period and is still experiencing some of them. SWIM also experienced a relapse in some of his OCD symptoms during this period.
This experience has only reinforced SWIM's distrust in doctors and medications. SWIM played guinea pig to his psychologist for 3 years as a kid and had to endure the side effects of many different antidepressants. SWIM happily spent the next few years after that med-free. All he needed was healthy food and exercise. But after putting his trust into doctors again and trying one of the new "wonder drugs" of the time, he once again experienced nothing but negative side effects. This so-called "cure for insomnia" only made SWIM's symptoms worse the next day.
It will be a long time before SWIM can put his trust back into doctors. And as far as medications go, SWIM doesn't plan on letting any doctors pump him full of pills anymore. Especially not any of the new "wonder drugs" we all see advertised on TV.
This is just SWIM's point of view and personal experience. Certain medications may help some people, but SWIM for one has never had any positive effects from them. He just thought he'd share his experience with other users.
SWIM had zopiclone prescribed a few months back for his insomnia aswell. It didn't do any good for SWIM either, it took him several hours to fall asleep (usually aided by a few beers) and the zopiclone just made him more drowsy and zombie like the day after. In desperation he tried 14mg and 21mg doses which gave SWIM mild visuals and entering a awake dreamstate (but still no bloody sleep ) and if SWIM recalls correct zopiclon is capable of producing a delirum state similar to certain antihistamines and tropane alcaloids so be very aware of SWIYs dosing. SWIM stopped using zopiclone after 5 days with no desired effect, and has fallen back to the tried and prooven THC-induced sleep, even though this isn't optimal for his studies but much better than suffering from insomnia and zopiclone-'hangovers'.
This was the first occassion in several years SWIM had sought professional aid, and of course wasn't very thrilled by the results, so he shares SWIP_Rs misthrust with doctors and its back to selfmedication for SWIM.
Oh and lastly the horrible taste....zopiclone made SWIMs saliva taste metallic the day after using ruining the taste of all food, another good reason to quit that s**t.
Just my 2 cents and SWIM hopes SWIP_R finds another solution to his insomnia. Good luck m8!
Drug:Zopiclone/Immovane Dose: 30mg (4 X 7.5mg) taken orally (double SWIMís prescribed dose) Environment: Taken sitting in bed, with her computer on, listening to mellow rock music. Light is on SWIM can see the keyboard. Plan: To fight the effects of Zopiclone and write this report. Tolerance: SWIM usually takes 15mgs per night for sleep Background Info: SWIM only slept for about 4 hours previous night, last meal was 3hrs before Zopiclone. SWIM also took 500mg Taurine 2 hours beforehand. SWIM had been feeling manic earlier in the evening, but this had kind of faded off by the time SWIM took Zopiclone. SWIM is feeling hungry but decides not to eat until +30mins so as not to interfere with pills.
T +00:30 SWIM eats a muesli bar T +00:40 SWIM is having difficulty typing without lots of errors, she is missing letters and adding letters and much of what she types does not make sense. She canít be assed fixing errors so Instant Messenger is stopped. SWIM is still hungry so makes herself some soup and toast T +00:50 SWIM eats toast and soup & smokes a cigarette T +01:05 Feeling slightly stimulated SWIM gets engrossed in the internet, but not anything that involves typing! T +01:10 Yawns T +01:15 Yawns again T +01:20 SWIM starts to have trouble concentrating T +01:25 SWIMís head feels quite heavy, if she lay down she would definitely be able to sleep, T +01:30 SWIMís vision is slightly blurred and focusing on the computer becomes difficult. T +01:35 SWIM starts to feel disorientated T +01:40 SWIM notices her heart rate is slightly faster than usual T +01:45 Extreme sleepiness which SWIM no longer feels like fighting T +01:50 SWIM is slowing down. feels quite disorientated and keeps forgetting what she was in the middle of doing. Her typing for this report does not make any sense and she is hoping that tomorrow she will be able to decipher it! She smokes another cigarette. T +01:55 All SWIM can think about is sleep T +02:00(notes typed did not make sense) T +02:05(notes typed did not make sense) T +02:10(notes typed did not make sense) T +02:15 SWIM's desire to sleep overwhelms and she turns off computer, turns out light and goes to sleep
T +05:10 SWIM wakes up, she is still feeling very tired, her vision is extremely blurry, she gets up and eats a couple of crackers, turns computer on and reads a couple of posts (which SWIM still remembers reading the following morning) T +05:40 Sleep
T +09:40 SWIM wakes up feeling wee bit tied, lots of yawns, but a clear head. She usually wakes up at 7am no matter what time she takes her pills, but today she woke up at 8am, most likely because her dose was higher) If SWIM is bored she will probably go back to sleep for awhile but if something catches her interest sheíll stay up. T +10:00 SWIM drinks a fruit smoothie and takes her usual vitamin & mineral supplements T +11:00 SWIM is feeling wide awake now, Concentration and energy have returned to normal
Not too different than SWIM would have expected, except *maybe* waking up after 4 hrs instead of 8+ . He never did get much recreational value from larger doses of sedative/hypnotics, although small doses are a different story.
P.S. SWIM was hallucinating slightly (for the first time) last night after taking his normal bedtime dose, probably cuz he was exhausted/burned out on top of it.
Zopiclone is a very effective aid for insomnia. I've been scripted it on and off for years.
A therapeutic dose "is" contrary to common belief and pharmacy advice half a 7.75mg tablet consumed on an "as necessary" basis not nighly. If you over-indulge your left with retrograde amnesia and a foggy head after sleeping far longer than necessary and ofcourse a monster tolerance. YMMV
I fail to see the recreational value of this medication. I did once take more than I should (accidentally ofcourse) which resulted in half a blister pack empty and re-arranged furniture amongst other odd noctural activities. Amnesia in a blister pack.
It's one of those meds that should be used for it's intended purpose IMO.
Last edited by MrMouse; 21-02-2007 at 04:04.
Zopiclone, in my experience, is an excellent aid for insomnia but I wouldn't suggest going out of your way to obtain some if your sole reason to is to use it as a recreational drug.
As the above poster said, slight to pretty-strong amnesiac effects can occur at far higher doses without any advantages over normal doses as a sleeping aid or a recreational drug.
As far as extended use gets, all I've noticed is that just before the onset of sleep it's pretty common that some pretty crazy thought patterns seem to rustle around, which is pretty funny if you have anyone to dictate them to.
Swiim's getting zopiclone prescribed right now against insomnia - the insomnia is impairinig his daily work and his entire life and are coming from heavy restless-legs-syndrome and very often waking up in the middle of the night and being in a half-sleeping state.
although swim is a very regular drug user of psychedelics, cannabis, opiates (lower strength one like tilidine and tramadole), but this symptoms are there for his entire lifem be it drug free or not.
swim's right now pretty often at the doc because of heavy suspucion of what the underlying disease is: fibromyalgosis and a mild soft parts rheumatitis.
sleepless nights, long durations until falling asleep etc. are the causes of zopiclone prescription, 7.5 mg tabs.
on the first night, swim took one tablet, it took about 20 minutes to start feeling effects. swim is drug-experienced and can pretty much say if something comes on or not, and to know not to dose higher.
he felt very drowsy, a bit like being drunk, also feeling of very heavy body, especially lower legs were like cemented. after come on swim felt to sleep 15 minutes later, very deep, no dreams of which he can remember, and woke up very refreshed and with a feeling of healthiness.
like, you would feel if you had a sleeping disorder and can't think of not being tired (except on meth & coke, but this is a whole another part of swims life, and he doesnt do speedy things anymore). as a sidenote, he slept 9 hours straight.
next night, swim took 15 mg, and this time he had some more heavy effects. to be exactly, swim can't remember whole 2 hours, in which he may or may not be awake or anything, not even dreaming. totally erased memory, but again a very deep and refreshing sleep. no hangover next day.
third night, swim tried to sleep again without any helpers. it was a horrible night, with a totel netto sleep of maybe 4 hours, out of 8. next day was extremely hard, also due to having two very good days before, that down day was also heavily depressing swims mood.
fourth night, swim did a new experiment: 50 drops of tilidine and 15 mg zopiclone. swim does not recommend this. he took it at 7:00 PM, and woke up at 6:30 AM next morning. he can't remember the whole time, and at least 3 hours are COMPLETELY erased from his memory. his girlfriend called him at 5. day and asked what was wrong with swim the day before. she called at approx. 10 PM, and said she hung up the phone after 5 minutes, where swim only talked stuff not understandable, vocally as well as the sense. swim knews for sure he must have felt asleep on the couch, and that he put the cordless phone into station for loading right after he came home from work as he can remember this clearly.
5. day as swim came home and his girlfriend called, the phone was under the bed, and swim also woke up on the bed in a weird upside down position.
since then (3 weeks) swim takes 7.5mg daily because it helps him strongly with his sleep, only problem is that zopi does only work for about 6 hours, so his doc already took the name valium into mouth.
it's a very nice drug for pure sleeping aid, but really not comparable to benzos for being high - you'll feel pretty good and have nice "zero line" of thinking in the head which is very helpful with a stressful job as swim has (although, this could lead to psychical dependence, swim supposes), and in doses where you would feel extremely good with benzos (seen relative) you'll not even sleep, you'll fall into coma and completely erase your memory for a few hours before. also, strange thought patterns occur sometimes, not very unsimilar to psychedelics, but on a much dumber style. also, swim registered open doors which where closed before, and sometimes even strangely rearragend cloths on his body and that people tell him he writes extremely strange and senseless stuff on ICQ on some evenings.
total help as a drug against insomnia problems: ++++
recretional usage potential: +
avaibilty: ++++; it's prescribed very often by doctors, as it should not be causing as much dependancy as benzos and is advertised with this plus; but, several studies show, that strong withdrawal symptoms can occur within even therapeutical length of usage and dosis can occur. and, as every drug user with general medicinic interest knows, heroine was also advertised as not causing dependancy (compared to morphine) when it was created by the Bayer Company.
She was post working a week of nights, and, as can sometimes happen, was physically exhausted but unable to sleep at all, because of body clock insisting: "It's day-time, not sleep-time"
She took 7.5mg Zopiclone
First effects felt at about 15 to 20 minutes, very heavy in the limbs, swiftly becoming rather uncomfortable. Mind still very active but body effectively paralysed.
What followed was an unknown period of exceedingly vivid hypnogogic hallucinations, none of then pleasant, followed by lurches back to wakefulness with periods of unreality and depersonalization and being unable to determine whether she was asleep or awake.
When she finally slept, there were hideous anxiety nightmares, associated with night terrors/sleep paralysis and a distinct feeling of something malevolent sittining on her chest (the whole incubus/sucubus thing, which has happened before, but never with such intensity).
She got about 6 hours total and awoke to a thick-headed, pounding head feeling horrible with a distinct metallic taste in her mouth. This was combined with an ongoing exhaustion, and feeling frustrated and completely unrested.
It may very well not have been the Zopiclone at all, but the general sleep deprivation and poor nutrition that accompany a week of nights. Nonetheless this is NOT a drug SWIJ will use again.
She had extremely vivid nightmares for several days following and also had further episodes of sleep paralysis.
SWIM finds their weaker 3.75 mg tablets quite effective with her occassional insomnia; she just takes the one pill which doens't knock her out but enables her to relax enough to fall asleep. Kalms tablets and Melatonin can also help when stacked with the Zopliclone pill. She finds if she does 7.5 mg that she feels too groggy next morning.
@jatelka: swim was talking to his doctor, and he told him that there were a lot of patient (most not of him), that had very strong sleep deprivation, and where zopiclone started real anxienty and stuff, where it in general seems to be very helpful to people like swim who do sleep regulary but have a general problem with the quality and deepness of sleep.
however, as swim is a tall and heavy guy, he generally needs high doses of most drugs to get high, same counts for medicine to work.
however 15 mg zopiclone is WAY too much for him. try 3.75mg or even a tablet slicer and try half of the half tablet.
zopiclone in general seems to be somewhat a crossover of benzo's and dissoziatives like PCP and ketamine. swim would say, more recreational use than diphenhydramine (which was extremely not good), but way lower than most benzos.
the metallic taste in the mouth (bitter) is a pretty common sideeffect due to release of zopiclone (or the stuff its metabolized in swim does not remember really) is released into the saliva producing tissues.
so if you want to try zopiclone, be prepared and in a safe place: you'll maybe acting for several hours and doing extremely strange stuff and won't remember anything (like swim wearing his boxers upside down and turned out and having a sock on his ear and stuff across the room spread and modified.
swims girlfriend told him he talked about cat-shaped trees and stuff. no delusions of which swim knows, but his mind is completey blasted away under higher dosage. however, low, non-recreational uses can also induce a nice and heavy body feeling, slighty comparable also to light opiates, but with completely different head buzz.
SWIM is pretty confident that it was Zopiclone (normal to heavy regular use) mixed with methamphetamine withdrawal that was causing her Restless Legs Syndrome (RLS). Something for others to be mindful of as it really is an awful thing to go through.
zopiclone is fucking aweessssome, but real strong shit - be warned
swim popped a few, then went into this sorta dazed state of mind, didnt really give a fuck what was going on as long as it was still going on sort of deal, make sure you dont have access to car keys or swimming pools though
this girl i know was prescribed zopiclone (imovane) after having trouble sleeping after witnessing a murder... she is a semi-regular drug user, different amounts at different points of her life... little bit of everything. high tolerence to benzos and opiods... not due to heavy use but it just seems to take a lot to calm her down because she is just super hyper/bubbly/anxious.
ANYWAY, no drug use at this point for a few weeks. she used the zopiclone and found it great to sleep on nights where she was anxious or afraid of having nightmares. just a great sleep, waking up refreshed.
recently she took the regular prescribed dose, but decided not to sleep because some friend came over. it felt INTENSE... like the time she almost overdosed on benzos... or the end of that euphoric opioid feeling, when it's just slow & blurry & comfy... thoughts wandering, that's the last thing she remembers.
tbut apparently she BEGGED her boyfriend to get pizza hut (which she hates) and ate HALF of the pizza (she has never come close to eating that much in her life) . THEN had crazy bossy hard sex (very out of character for her).
she woke up with a stomach ache and sore pussy. STILL after hearing what happened she can't remember one SECOND of the sex or pizza.
i have heard similar things about ambien... but i thought zopiclone was different, gentle. is this reaction common with such a small dose?
i know you're supposed to go right to sleep so technically she was misusing the drug.
she has never had amnesia before and it is just fascinating to her to have such a reaction to a non-controlled substance.
Zopiclone and the other "Z" drugs as they are known such as zolpidem (Ambien) act on the GABA receptors in the brain. It acts on the same sub-unit that benzodiazepines act on, the GABA-BZD receptor.
This would explain the amnesia. Do not underestimate the power of these just because they are not controlled. More and more people are starting to use these recreationally as they have very similar effects to benzo's. I should not think it will be too long before they are scheduled.
My gurl used to eat in her sleep while taking a high, but prescribed, dose of Zopiclone, she would wake up with empty packets of biscuits next to her but have no recollection of eating them. This started about a year into her Zopiclone addiction and stopped when she stopped taking them.
While in this thread I might as well write something about my gurls experience coming off Zopiclone. she had been taking 2-3 X 7.5mg pills a night for almost 4 years and she stopped taking them at the beginning of last year when she went to rehab. The first night she woke up a lot and had cold/hot sweats but the second night she slept like a baby and there were no noticable withdrawal symptoms during the day.
In my gurls experience she would say these pills are extremely psychologically addictive but not actually as physically addicting as many people think. She would prefer to come off these any day compared with benzos.
I am a physician who has been troubled by sleep for many years. It began around 1990 but probably began earlier. I had CFIDS like symptoms and began having short term memory loss which has gotten worse over the years as documented by serial neuropsych testing. However, turns out not to be CFIDS but hyperadrenergic postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome. You will find POTS if you Google it, but the hyperadrenergic variety is rare. I found a guy Dr. Goldstein at NIH who figured it out. My sympatheric nervious system puts out too much epinephrine. He thinks it may cross the blood brain barrier and interfere with sleep.
In 1983 my polysomnogram demonstrated for the first time total loss of S1/S2 and REM sleep. I mentioned this to the pulmonologists reading it and they said, "don't worry...normal for a lab study." They were only looking for apnea, central and obstructive, narcolepsy and pathological daytime drowsiness. They were not interested in sleep architecture.
Only recently have docs looked at that.
Imovane has been available for years but recommended for two week use as are most soporifics. I keep up on sleep literature and Sepocor decided to make a racemic modification and isolate the + isomer and sell it in the US. Their studies say six month use is fine.
Well, I found that when I could sleep on it I had more energy. However, like all drugs that work on GABA receptors, you get morning rebound anxiety. I get depression and anhydonia, anterograde and retrograde amnesia, and basically feel like s#%t.
My conclusion is that ANY drug that works on the GABA receptors is potentially addictive and will give rebound. When it was legal I tried GHB. Terrible drug. At the time I also did addiction medicine and got a call from someone who had a guy in the hospital taking it around the clock. Got him off with phenobarb.
Because of my hyuperadrenergic state...nothing works, even that new drug which is a melatonin agonist.
Having spoken with many people I have come to believe that all these drugs are dangerous an make things worse. What is the answer? I don't know yet.
This summer I am going to stop taking zopiclone and see a guy who is supposed to be a specialist in sleep archetiecture. I don't have my hopes up because I probably no more than he does.
Only recently have I heard estimates that 20 percent of the American population may have primary sleep disorders which contribute to depression, drug addiction, alcoholism and physical problems. Chronic sleep deprivation can effect the immune system and believe it or not possibly cause type II diabetes...which I have.
swim has taken zopiclone 7mg and 3m and honestly swim didnt find them the sort of drug to abuse.
swim got the 7mgs off her mum who had just come out of rehab for methadone, she said that this drug isnt like other sleeping pills where if you try to stay awake you will feel stoned, she said after a while the effects wear off, so really its only good for sleep, and it really is a good sleep aid.
swim just fell asleep easily but didnt feel drowsy, nor the next day.
then swim asked for some from the doctor, he gave her 10 3mg tabs and swim found them to work for sleep as good as the 7mg ones.
swim woudnt really think zopiclone was a good drug to abuse, but works well for insomnia.
SWIM loves Zopiclone and occasionally takes several tablets and forces himself to stay awake to experience the effects. SWIM even enjoys the bitter taste he gets when taking Zopiclone. Although SWIM develops tolerance to the dose withing few days there is hardly any withdrawal difficulties even if taken for two weeks straight.
SWIM thinks that Zopiclone is best to be taken occasionaly or cycled rather than continuosly since the tolerance builds up very fast.
SWIM is RX'ed zopiclone 7.5mg for insomnia.
He likes to mix them with pregabalin( SWIM does not recommend mixing this, as it may be dangerous).
When mixed with pregabalin SWIM gets into a beautyfull world of euphoria, relaxation, funny thoughts, a bit drowsiness and a bad taste in the mouth.
SWIM thinks zopiclone is better than benzodiazepines, because it feels much stronger and more euphoric.
YMMV very much offcourse.
Love to all, and stay safe
Last edited by Man5onite; 21-11-2008 at 06:07.
Reason: Forgot an )...hihi
SWIM has found zopiclone to be one of the best downers, very nice relaxation and euphoria; it also alters though patterns making it good to do creative work and makes SWIM willing to work on stuff, something unusual for a downer.
SWIM tried zopiclone once for sleeping and it took hours to fall asleep. At the time SWIM was recovering from a serious motorcycle accident and decided to snort his oxy rx and the combo was nice but had a difficult time differentiating some of the effects from the oxy. Decided to try zopi the next day as pure recreation. As blowing is his preferred method he tried that. The result was constant nasal drainage which completely flushed out the zopiclone leading to needing 15-20mg to get an equivalent 5-10mg dose. Due to the lack of visuals and others effects related to a hypnotic SWIM found this to be essentially a waste of the drug. ISWIMO, zolpidem seems be the better downer by itself but from the other post it seems when mixed with other drugs the zopiclone taken orally seems to shine.
10mg zopiclone, Elsebody said at one stage he didnt know if his eyes were open or closed.
He wasn't really awake that long, as he was taking the zoppy in the straightie way, to sleep. He smiles slightly at the memory of the short experience, though.