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Opiate addiction Support for coping with Opiate addiction and Opiate addiction treatment.

 
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  #1  
Old 30-11-2006, 03:41
oathrocks oathrocks is offline
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using suboxone to detox from oxycodone...

SWIM was taking percocet, oxycontint, and lorcet daily for about 3 years. Seven months ago SWIM decided he needed to sober up from ahile and aquired some suboxone 8mg pills and used thme to detox. SWIM took them for 5 days, and then quite cold turkey..He was feeling so bad he decided to keep take them and ended up taking 1-2,g for about 3 weeks. SWIM then relized he traded one addiction for anouther, and for some reason decdied to go visit the doc and get some more percs, and oxys. SWIM has been back on the daily oxy-perc reigment for about 2 months and it has been effecting his work and now needs to stop for good. He has a little sub left and has decided to make the switch and do a 5 day sub detox then cold turkey. SWIM is wodering if anyone has been through a 5 day sub detox then cold turkey???? SWIM is planning to do somehtig like this
day 1 6mg
day 2 8mg
day 3 6mg
day 4 4mg
day 5 2mg

any thoughs would be great...SWIM has about a 100mg oxycodone daily habit with an occasional 30-40mg of hydro with..
  #2  
Old 30-11-2006, 04:26
Forthesevenlakes Forthesevenlakes is offline
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Re: using suboxone to detox from oxycodone...

Suboxone (buprenorphine) can be very beneficial for those hoping to detox, but usually tapering off suboxone is a process that lasts longer than 5 days. What SWIY is doing might help a little, but SWIY will still get withdrawals at the end of day 5. SWIM's suggestion is to get more suboxone. If SWIY explains to his doctor that he is concerned about the addiction potential of his medication, and would like to taper off of them, or that he would like to switch to suboxone for his pain, the doctor should be understanding. He may say that people taking opiates for pain will not get mentally addicted, but SWIY must state that even if he has been taking them as directed, he is still concerned about the physical addiction potential and would like to try being off drugs. The doctor will probably be understanding, and even if he isnt, if SWIY has the medical records to back up his position, he can always consult another doctor about this, since there is absolutely nothing illegal about trying to get off opiates prescribed for a real pain condition.

However, if circumstances happen to not allow this, and SWIY is stuck with only a few pills and unable to obtain more, here are some things to keep in mind:

1. Suboxone has a very long half life, about 37 hours. This means that SWIY can space out his pills a bit longer than a day without suffering withdrawals.

2. SWIY would stop use of oxy and hydrocodone and wait until the withdrawals hit, then place 4 mg of suboxone under the tongue and let it dissolve. Wait 20 minutes or so, and if the withdrawal symptoms do not dissipate, try another 2-4 mg.

3. SWIY should attempt to hold out more than a day if possible until taking more. If SWIY wants to avoid withdrawals completely, then wait 24 hours and take another 4 mg. Buprenorphine is fairly powerful and SWIY can probably stop the withdrawals with just 4 mg even with his opiate tolerance. If this doesnt work, try another 2 mg.

4. Attempt to step the dosage down by half each day. This is a pretty rapid detox so the halving may not be able to be done, if so, take the smallest amount possible to avoid withdrawals.

5. Give SWIYself more than 5 days total to complete the taper. By breaking up the pills, SWIY's taper may last 10 days, but this will make the cold turkey part at the end easier.

6. Keep tapering down until SWIY is at a very low amount, maybe 1 mg/day, and then attempt to go more than a day even if he has some buprenorphine left. Maybe 36 hours or so.

SWIM does not know if SWIY can taper down this fast and still not suffer withdrawals at the end. Usually a buprenorphine taper takes a few weeks to a couple months. But it will be easier than quitting cold turkey, to be sure. Good luck and let us know how SWIY is doing, we're here for you.
  #3  
Old 30-11-2006, 04:37
oathrocks oathrocks is offline
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Re: using suboxone to detox from oxycodone...

thanks forth, very good info!! SWIM is going to make them last as long as he can inbetween doses as you said, and try to make them last as long as possible..SWIM has a total of 28 (3 8mgs, and 2 2mgs) SWIM dos not have insurance and can't afford to go to a sub doc, let alone afford the cost of the SUBS being as they are so freakin expensive. Would you think it might more effective in the long run with wds and going cold turkey if he tappered down his oxycontin dosage for the next 1-2 weeks to minimal usage then start on the subs?
  #4  
Old 30-11-2006, 05:11
Forthesevenlakes Forthesevenlakes is offline
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Re: using suboxone to detox from oxycodone...

Tapering down the oxycontin dosage before switching over would certainly help. The key part, and most difficult part, will be that to make the withdrawals at the end as minimal as possible, SWIY must not take enough oxycodone to get high. Just enough to keep away from the withdrawals. SWIM would also advise against taking the dose first thing in the morning, since that is the hardest dose to not take for many people when they have a serious opiate addiction. Try to be up and active for at least a few hours before taking the mantainance dose. If SWIY is normally taking 100 mg oxycodone a day, then try to take only 20-50 mg a day at first. SWIY may suffer some withdrawals after around the 12 hour mark after taking the drug, if possible try to ride them out until the next day, but if they are unbearable, then take a very minimal amount (10-20 mg) to stop them. But like SWIM mentioned earlier, try not to exceed 50 mg a day. After a few days of this, drop the dosage down by 5-10 mg for a few more days, and repeat until the minimal dose needed is lowered significantly. Then follow the instructions that SWIM gave above, wait for withdrawals, but attempt only 2-4 mg suboxone at first. Dropping the oxycodone dose first is a very wise move. The hard part will be resisting the urge to say "fuck it, I'm quitting anyway, so why not get high?" SWIY has to fight this urge, though. It is absolutely imperative since taking enough to get high will throw off the whole tapering process. If SWIY has a trusted person in his life he can give the pills to, and have this person give him only a certain amount each day, this will really help keep SWIY from "cheating" on the taper. Remember, the longer the taper and the lower the dose SWIY drops to, the easier the withdrawals will be at the end. They may still occur, but they should be managable, and when it comes time for that, this site has a lot of good threads on tips and actions that can help with them.

SWIM is surprised that no generic buprenorphine is available in SWIY's area. SWIM could swear that he's seen some available, and its the same thing thing thats in suboxone (except without the naloxone).

One final warning: life may seem very boring while tapering off, even without the pain of withdrawals. Staying social at work or with friends (provided they arent using opiates), lots of rest and exercise, and keeping mentally active can really help during this time.
  #5  
Old 09-12-2006, 21:25
oathrocks oathrocks is offline
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Re: using suboxone to detox from oxycodone...

Today is SWIMS day 4 using sub and off the oxy. The transation was easy, no problems what so ever. SWIM took his last dose of oxy Tuesday around 9pm, and waited untill Wednesday at 8pm (23 or so hours) as long as SWIM could wait to take the sub, about 30-40 minutes after SWIM felt 100% better!! Thursday he took a total 8mg, and Friday 8mg, with 4mg morning, and 4mg evening doses. He was not had any wd systoms, he woke up this mornign feeling 100% then he has in about a year...no cravings, or vivid dreams..anyways the only side effect he has is after he takes the sub he gets a monster headache, but a headache is better then wds..but it is nothing asprin cant fix..
  #6  
Old 10-12-2006, 20:08
rodent Gold member rodent is offline
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Re: using suboxone to detox from oxycodone...

I doubt I could give any more advice that Forthesevenlakes hasn't already. I also detoxed with Suboxone but from methadone which took forever. Oxy was my first problem then methadone (which was a huge mistake) but Suboxone was a godsend. The issue is in the US docs have to be specially licensed to prescribe it for addiction and they can only have a limited amount of patients... or at least thats how it was a couple years ago.

Hopefully since Oxy is SWIYs monkey, the WD's won't last as long as methadone's. It might be in SWIYs best interest to find a doc who can prescribe it and get more as it is better than going back to Oxy or whatever if things become difficult.

Good luck bro, I really hope things work out.
  #7  
Old 11-12-2006, 07:07
Forthesevenlakes Forthesevenlakes is offline
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Re: using suboxone to detox from oxycodone...

Rodent is correct about doctors being able to treat a limited amount of patients with suboxone. SWIM has heard that they are only allowed to prescribe buprenorphine for 30 patients with regards to addiction. Don't know if this is 30 patients at a time, or EVER. SWIM has heard 30 patients in the doctor's lifetime, but this seems a bit draconian to SWIM. But then, so does limiting the availability of addiction treatment which is effective...

Interestingly there are no limits on the amount of patients a doctor can treat with buprenorphine for pain. This creates a possibility for loopholes, but SWIM thinks/hopes that the limit on addiction patients will change soon. Granted, the pharmaceutical industry could conceivably fight to keep these laws in place, since they stand to make much more money from keeping patients on methadone or other opioids indefinetely...
  #8  
Old 18-02-2007, 11:02
kizevin kizevin is offline
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Re: using suboxone to detox from oxycodone...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forthesevenlakes View Post
SWIM is surprised that no generic buprenorphine is available in SWIY's area. SWIM could swear that he's seen some available, and its the same thing thing thats in suboxone (except without the naloxone).
Unfortunately, the patent on Buprenorphine(Subutex/Suboxone) doesn't expire for a few years, so it's still very expensive without insurance.
  #9  
Old 19-02-2007, 00:45
Forthesevenlakes Forthesevenlakes is offline
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Re: using suboxone to detox from oxycodone...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kizevin View Post
Unfortunately, the patent on Buprenorphine(Subutex/Suboxone) doesn't expire for a few years, so it's still very expensive without insurance.
If SWIY has a good doctor, perhaps he could inquire about Nalbuphine, its another opiate agonist/antagonist and could serve a similar purpose. SWIM thinks its available generically. Not sure if it would be as efficacious as buprenorphine though. What's odd is that SWIM was almost certain that buprenorphine is available in a generic form. He's going to ask around about this.
  #10  
Old 19-02-2007, 01:14
kizevin kizevin is offline
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Re: using suboxone to detox from oxycodone...

Unfortunately SWIM's doctor is a dick. He flat out won't take insurance and there's no other docs around in this kind of field. SWIM is sad

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addiction, bupe, buprenorphine, detox, detoxing, drugs-forum, oxycodone, oxycodone addiction, oxycodone detox, oxycodone withdrawal, oxycontin, oxycontin detox, percocet, rapid detox, rehab, suboxone, suboxone detox, suboxone dosage, suboxone use, taper, withdrawal, withdrawals

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