Amphetamines effects on senile people

[primal440]

OK, this question may sound sick to some people but let me say this is just purely imagination, I would never consider administering a drug to people unaware of, especially elderly people; not to mention ive never and will never get ahold of something as vile as amphetamine but anyways, from a purely "scientific" point of view: What would amphetamines, any kind, do on a person above 70 years and/or with severe personality/psychological/physical problems derived from their age? Like paralysis, Parkinsonian symtpoms and typical senile faigue and general delirium? Would dosing them would temporarily bring back lucidity or instantly destroy their fragile bodies or maybe do nothing at all? What about the dopamine and adrenalin deposits within them and their reaction to these potent foreign inhibitors?

Has there ever been anyone "Mengelian" enough to perform such a test?
I know some people over here can get ahold of some rare texts and info thats why i ask.

[Nicaine]

It would probably not bring back lucidity, unless their problems were ADD-like... more likely it would result in an agitated or euphoric confused/delirious state with increased sympathetic nervous system side effects (tremors, tics, heart problems, strokes, diarrhea/constipation, etc).

Of course everybody is different, and it would affect each person differently depending on their condition and general state of health. In a way, your question is very stupid and pointless (no offense intended).

[primal440]

No offense taken. It is stupid but i dont thinks its pointless. For the time that I was writting the question I was a bit stupid myself if you know what I mean, but your answer cleared up the picture for me a bit. I will reformulate my question as senility is ambiguous and grandiose enough to catch most of us if we make it to that point, regardless of our individual response to certain substances........

This question is similar to one I read on Cocaine & Coca, until what point in its life would a human being with a typical reaction to the drug, would react to Amphetamine's "positive effects" without getting cardiac or other serious complications derived from its action on the body? Yeah yeah its silly especially considering how a single dose feel already as a physical shatterer (for SWIM), but from what I read a lot of people in germany around the times of WW2 were given amphetamines up to really old ages, to keep on production and activity overall, like guinea pigs; and these were not soldiers. I reckon this regime was quickly cancelled considering how devastating amphetamines can be in a long term. Any insight unto this would also be appreciated.

[izzy31]

SWIM tried this with many different subjects....none near the age 70. The result was a halarious outburst of suddenly wanting to either go somewhere, talk, or learn something.

[primal440]

Hmmm... could you give a little more details on SWIM's actions (that for the time being seem unethical) and SWIM's results with those tries please?

[Micklemouse]

I'm guessing that SWiP has little or no experience with senility? Let me tell one & all that the last thing a person in the advanced stages of senility needs is speed! These people are often very active for long periods of time, confused & paranoid, often randomly violent, sometimes capable of fleeting moments of lucidity, highly susceptible to tardive diskinesia (which can be brought about by amphetamines), & often have compromised immune systems, weak hearts & brittle bones.

Any 'benefits' that may appear from the use of amphetamines would be greatly outweighed by the risks.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by Micklemouse

I'm guessing that SWiP has little or no experience with senility? Let me tell one & all that the last thing a person in the advanced stages of senility needs is speed! These people are often very active for long periods of time, confused & paranoid, often randomly violent, sometimes capable of fleeting moments of lucidity, highly susceptible to tardive diskinesia (which can be brought about by amphetamines), & often have compromised immune systems, weak hearts & brittle bones.

Any 'benefits' that may appear from the use of amphetamines would be greatly outweighed by the risks.

Thanks for saying it more nicely... maybe it does take some experience with what senility/old age is like, or at least having studied or read about it.

I was probably too harsh and I apologize to the OP. I guess the idea of giving amphetamines to a confused and likely agitated senior citizen with various physical illness/weaknesses tripped my emotional breakers a bit... seems hard to imagine a worse substance (even strong hallucinogens would probably cause a senile elderly person less problems).

[Micklemouse]

S'alright? S'alright! Nearly didn't post it after scrolling up & realising I'd pretty much repeated what you'd written (note to Self - must start reading threads from the top!) but thought it worth repeating! Anyway, there is definitely a place for harshness when talking about daft ideas such as this, no matter how hypothetical!

I am intrigued (in a sick sort of way!) to learn more from SWiIzzy about his observations in the field though - not that I could condone such activities you understand!

[Fantasian]

on a slight side note, Could MDMA be used instead of Amphetamine?

[Jatelka]

SWIJ will say this: because she doesn't think anyone else has said it strongly enough:

Giving people drugs without their explicit consent is psychological RAPE.

[primal440]

I feel compelled to reply to Micklemoue and to an extent to Nicaine. My question arose precisely because of my experience with senile people. I have two grandparents that are rapidly shifting towards senility, and both show changes pointed out by Micklemouse (confused, often randomly violent, I would'nt say violent but very agitated, sometimes capable of fleeting moments of lucidity, highly susceptible to tardive diskinesia). Also one grandmother who is already and has been living in full blown senile catatonia for a long time now; with only brief periods of lucidity and movility and that wont change until she dies. So you could say fuck that about not having experiences with senility and empathy, I may not be a doctor or nurse and not know the medical terms for what they are suffering but I do know and feel how they are suffering.

Im not trying to find a magic potion, I just want to see if anyone here has had in vivo experiences with this kind of stuff... like SWIIzzy claims and what they know. And its pretty clear any benefit provided by the Amphs. would be greatly outweighed by the negatives, just ask your monkey how his body feels after a session.

One more thing:
"Anyway, there is definitely a place for harshness when talking about daft ideas such as this, no matter how hypothetical!

I am intrigued (in a sick sort of way!) to learn more from SWiIzzy about his observations in the field though - not that I could condone such activities you understand!"

I'm not here to make enemies but what's up with that? I know you're smart enough to notice the contradiction... However patronizing your replies where they still helped a lot anyhow.

[Fantasian]

Originally Posted by Jatelka

SWIJ will say this: because she doesn't think anyone else has said it strongly enough:

Giving people drugs without their explicit consent is psychological RAPE.

I missunderstood, my idea wasnt to give it to the old person without their consent, instead it was with their consent in order to increase quality of life..

[Jatelka]

^^^ Not in response to SWIF's post, just in response to the whole thread.

And consent in a senile individual is a tricky one no? SWIJ is not saying that senile individuals cannot give consent ever, but it would be difficult, given that consent needs to include processing information, retaining information, and understanding consequences. Not something that people with dementia can do frankly.

[Alicia]

Originally Posted by Jatelka

^^^ Not in response to SWIF's post, just in response to the whole thread.

And consent in a senile individual is a tricky one no? SWIJ is not saying that senile individuals cannot give consent ever, but it would be difficult, given that consent needs to include processing information, retaining information, and understanding consequences. Not something that people with dementia can do frankly.

On the other hand, how is one to judge there care it is essentially taken out of there hands when sadly there illness reaches a sudden point. Swia would rather have some indian pillow her* then face the eventual demise. that way so anything that may be a bonus should be taken forward while not down the amphetamines route. Sad really. but swia knows where your coming from J. Its a difficult one.


*Suffocation (taken from "One flew over the cuckoo's nest") in the end sequence.

[primal440]

And this is a tricky thread. I can see a number of possibilities with this one, from semantics discussions to moral/ethical debates. How sane are you anyways? Have you ever seen a kid/young/adult taking some form of drug without full awareness of the consequences? I have but this is not the point.

The thread originally started aiming at the effects of amphetamines on senile people. I would like to broaden the spectre and add (and perhaps limit) to that just plain "old people", as I can see there will never be an answer to the original question, and I can see how this has affected more than one member's sensibility; and old people is such a gross generalization that you can easily have senile people sitting next to an old guy probably more lucid and sane than yourself. Wether it be psychological drug rapism or medical/scientifical trials there are indeed more chances to find info on the latter: people who are in physical decay but still hold on their minds. I guess Fantasian was thinking of this when he was asking his/her questions.

So let me rephrase: Does anybody know of anything regarding the subjective along as the objective effects of Amphetamines on elderly people?

[Micklemouse]

My apologies to you Primal for any offence unwittingly caused. Should know better than to make presumptions. However if one is not clear in one's reasons or prompts for asking a question such as this, then assumptions are unfortunately going to be made.

As for contradictions, there are many things that I find ethically abhorrent that are nonetheless interesting - results of vivisection & testing on animals for example. I cannot condone these actions, but their outcomes interest me. Similarly I cannot condone SWiIzzy's alleged chemical assault (again an assumption based on the thread & the lack of information presented about consent, capacity of the subjects to understand, etc) on the elderly, but it's outcomes interest me. Do bear in mind that knowingly giving a subject a psychoactive chemical without their knowledge (spiking) is technically assault.

I also realise in hindsight that I misread your original post - again apologies! There will certainly be some interesting literature out there, & I'll try & hunt it down over the next day or so...