Opinions - Parent needs help identifying drug use of son (is it cocaine?)

[dolphinsnow18]

Originally Posted by Nicaine

The reference to "female" above is pure sexism, in SWIM's opinion.

As for the rest, he's known "intelligent, mature cokeheads" but of course it depends on one's criteria for intelligence, definition of maturity and particularly what one considers a "cokehead" to be (aside from a derogatory term used to insult or belittle).

SWIM Agree's..

Intelligence is not as related to drugs as one would think anyways. SWIM's opinion is that the desire for excitement in life plays much more of a role in experimenting with drugs. And if there is a post-experimental chemical dependency, that surely has nothing to do with intellect.

[IHrtHalucingens]

SWIM thinks this is a great thread for this site. We preach that its here to accurately inform people and reduce harm. I think if more parents put this effort in to a situation such as this one things would work out better for all of us.

Being someone in the same age group and sharing many experiences with your son, i think you are handling things very well so far. Your son needs to grow up and become a responsible adult. He doesnt want to because hes got it easy right now, so while not completely abandoning him you need to keep putting pressure on him to start working towards independence. And absolutely give him rules and restrictions while hes living with you. If he chooses the drugs over your support, then absolutely kick him out, with the same pretenses, clean up and you can come back. He may be cold and hungry for a few days up to a few weeks, but once he realizes that if he cant be responsible enough to buy food and put a foor over his head, he is not responsible enough to use drugs recreationally. And he'll take the steps to reaching these goals, thats when you welcome him back, under your rules, and you help him until hes taken all those steps.

From experience i can tell you its not going to just happen one day, hes going to need a reason to change, it sounds like he has found one reason and is getting his GED, he's on the right track, but youi need to stay on top of him for while, dont let the relationship regress back to him disrespecting your home and you and you overlooking it. Let him know your serious. Hopefully thatll give him reason enough for him to make the change, unfortunately it took some legal trouble for me to realize a change needed to be made. But im glad it happened sooner rather than later.

So basically stick to your guns, its key, your handling things very well so far keep on track and your son will thank you for it later.

I wish you luck, but even more i wish your son good luck and hope he gets focused on life.

[Micklemouse]

Nag, I think you got the wrong end of the stick mate! What he's saying is that the girls in the donut shop do not seem the type to be using coke.

[Nagognog2]

My apologies for misinterpretation. This happens when half asleep on national holidays celebrating the murder of my ancestors.

[Trebor]

If I may offer some advice.

If your son is working (I don't know if he is) and is paying you some money to live in your home whilst keeping his coke habit up. I see no problom he is doing what he wants to as a responsible adult. The worst thing you can do is pressure him to quit. He can only quit when he wants. But if you start to see him change (hanging out with pushers and the villiage whore) I suggest you ship him of to rehab. Or else have him join this forum to discuss his use.

[Each Hit]

if he could pay 1/4 rent and still have complete freedom over his life at home, what would be the motivation for getting him to take the steps toward independence?? also, why should the parents concede their personal values to allow their son to continue doing something they consider harmful in their own home??

when i first moved to where i live now (age 13), i met a kid who was a lot like me. he was pretty smart, made good grades, and wasn't afraid to question authority or try new things. during our 8th grade year (the year i moved there), he had already begun experimenting with drugs. by the end of our freshman year, my friend had gone from honor student to failing, showing no effort, missing 30+ days a year, and dealing drugs both at school and at his mom's house. his mom knew all of this and allowed him to continue living at home (i asked him once if she knew he was selling mdma and cocaine out of her house, and he said she didn't care as long as he had a gun -- odd i know). by this time, my friend associated with a completely different crowd and basically turned his back on most of his old friends, myself included. he eventually dropped out during his 3rd year of high school and sold drugs while living at his mom's house (perhaps he was paying her, i don't know). eventually, i graduated, moved away, and lost touch. last i heard, my old friend had a meth addiction and things seemed to be continuing on a downward spiral.

basically, all i'm saying is that parents have to set a limit for their kids somewhere along the line (no pun intended). if my friend's mom would have stepped up at some point and began to intervene in her son's life, maybe i'd have another friend at college to party with and think deep thoughts with on colorful days. sometimes children NEED their parents to point a certain direction and say, "this would be best" or to at least help rationalize consequences of certain behaviors. i was no angel in high school, but when i started slipping up and slacking off, my parents took away freedoms until i proved i could be responsible enough to enjoy those freedoms.

davec426913, it is obvious you want what is best for your son. have you sat down with him and asked why he does cocaine?? do you know definitively how often he was using and in what quantities?? does he have anybody outside of family who is a positive influence that he can trust??

my pet goldfish has used cocaine, both abusively and recreationally, and he tells me that it is possible to use cocaine and live an otherwise normal, healthy life. for him, this meant maybe buying a sixteenth of an ounce every month to use intermittently as needed (or desired ). mr fish still managed to be one of the most successful fish in his school. his only problem was having to keep his drug use secret from his family. he tells me that it made him feel very guilty to have to deceive his family by keeping that secret, but he thinks it would have been worse for his family if they had found out, because mr fish was not a coke fiend, but merely a fish who liked to have a little boost at parties or in the morning. he could easily see how his parents would look past that and think he was in dire need of help just because he owned cocaine.

so, try and get some of the details, if you can get an honest answer. of course, no son is going to willingly spill all the dirty details to his parents, but sometimes it helps just to be able to have an honest talk about things. don't pry, just inquire. if he doesn't have any positive influences outside of your home, you might be the only ones he can turn to for guidance. good luck.

[Trebor]

Originally Posted by Each Hit

if he could pay 1/4 rent and still have complete freedom over his life at home, what would be the motivation for getting him to take the steps toward independence?? also, why should the parents concede their personal values to allow their son to continue doing something they consider harmful in their own home??

when i first moved to where i live now (age 13), i met a kid who was a lot like me. he was pretty smart, made good grades, and wasn't afraid to question authority or try new things. during our 8th grade year (the year i moved there), he had already begun experimenting with drugs. by the end of our freshman year, my friend had gone from honor student to failing, showing no effort, missing 30+ days a year, and dealing drugs both at school and at his mom's house. his mom knew all of this and allowed him to continue living at home (i asked him once if she knew he was selling mdma and cocaine out of her house, and he said she didn't care as long as he had a gun -- odd i know). by this time, my friend associated with a completely different crowd and basically turned his back on most of his old friends, myself included. he eventually dropped out during his 3rd year of high school and sold drugs while living at his mom's house (perhaps he was paying her, i don't know). eventually, i graduated, moved away, and lost touch. last i heard, my old friend had a meth addiction and things seemed to be continuing on a downward spiral.

basically, all i'm saying is that parents have to set a limit for their kids somewhere along the line (no pun intended). if my friend's mom would have stepped up at some point and began to intervene in her son's life, maybe i'd have another friend at college to party with and think deep thoughts with on colorful days. sometimes children NEED their parents to point a certain direction and say, "this would be best" or to at least help rationalize consequences of certain behaviors. i was no angel in high school, but when i started slipping up and slacking off, my parents took away freedoms until i proved i could be responsible enough to enjoy those freedoms.

davec426913, it is obvious you want what is best for your son. have you sat down with him and asked why he does cocaine?? do you know definitively how often he was using and in what quantities?? does he have anybody outside of family who is a positive influence that he can trust??

my pet goldfish has used cocaine, both abusively and recreationally, and he tells me that it is possible to use cocaine and live an otherwise normal, healthy life. for him, this meant maybe buying a sixteenth of an ounce every month to use intermittently as needed (or desired ). mr fish still managed to be one of the most successful fish in his school. his only problem was having to keep his drug use secret from his family. he tells me that it made him feel very guilty to have to deceive his family by keeping that secret, but he thinks it would have been worse for his family if they had found out, because mr fish was not a coke fiend, but merely a fish who liked to have a little boost at parties or in the morning. he could easily see how his parents would look past that and think he was in dire need of help just because he owned cocaine.

so, try and get some of the details, if you can get an honest answer. of course, no son is going to willingly spill all the dirty details to his parents, but sometimes it helps just to be able to have an honest talk about things. don't pry, just inquire. if he doesn't have any positive influences outside of your home, you might be the only ones he can turn to for guidance. good luck.

I did not think of that. But the kid in question is not dealing? Not that cI know of. A friend of my nephew is a dealer. I don't like him hanging out with him. Swim even had to give him a bit of a "lesson" when he tried to give my nephew coke. (The kid is sixteen). The point is is that some people just have to learn boundarys. I had to. My nephew had to. And so will this kid. I just thinki that if he can keep this up without hurting someone, what ever he does to his own body is his business. If his parents just made it so that he couldn't snort in the living room?

His motivation to move out would be that he would have his own place to snort whatever the fuck he wants.

[Each Hit]

Originally Posted by Trebor

I did not think of that. But the kid in question is not dealing? Not that cI know of. A friend of my nephew is a dealer. I don't like him hanging out with him. Swim even had to give him a bit of a "lesson" when he tried to give my nephew coke. (The kid is sixteen). The point is is that some people just have to learn boundarys. I had to. My nephew had to. And so will this kid. I just thinki that if he can keep this up without hurting someone, what ever he does to his own body is his business. If his parents just made it so that he couldn't snort in the living room?

His motivation to move out would be that he would have his own place to snort whatever the fuck he wants.

i agree 100%. some people need to learn boundaries, and it often becomes a parent's responsibility to help highlight those boundaries when the child cannot do it on his or her own. it's a very delicate situation that is probably different for every family.

[GForce]

You have every right to kick a 21 year old man out of your house if he isn't going to follow your rules, I don't think anyone can make a logical argument against that. After all, he is an adult and it is your house. Like you said, your house your rules. It is my personal opinion that occasional cocaine use is not nearly as dangerous as the media and government want you to believe, provided you are responsible about it. However I can completely understand your position; you don't want it in your home.

[DaveC426913]

and sweet. I forgot sweet.

[Trebor]

Well Dave, you clearly like his co-workers. Ever thought of asking them to hold an intervention?

[DaveC426913]

No worries. But glad you clarified.

[KomodoMK]

While I'm with people like darawk on this one. I can not truly judge because I do not know the true merits of the situation.

However, people with self control and will power can go all the way through life using drugs with little to no problem. If, however, you are easily led and lack in the self control department, your heading for trouble. This could be with anything though, drugs, gambling, or anything else that has the potential of addiction.

I do respect you for much of the way you handled this though, many parents would go off the handle and recite all the bullshit they read in the media, at least you took the time and put the effort in to at least take a look at the other side of the argument.

[dolphinsnow18]

Originally Posted by DaveC426913

I am a parent who strongly suspects my teen and a friend are using hard drugs (I know they do pot, etc.). I am not sure what kind of drugs. I'd like some help in identifying it.

They prepared something on a CD case and smeared it on their gums.

I asked a police officer but he said that didn't sound like cocaine at all.

They do this in the basement, so they're not burning or smoking it. It makes them hyper, giggly, active, loud and hungry.

I need to understand what they're doing so I can apporach the issue intelligently.

coke makes one NOT HUngry. SWIM Knows for sure Pot makes ya hungry.

Originally Posted by KomodoMK

I agree with wellhelm on this one, we need a lot more information than you have given to narrow it down.

"It makes them hyper, giggly, active, loud and hungry." Could suggest cocaine with the exception of the hungry part, however some people can eat whilst taking cocaine.

"some people" though its rare. It would also be hard to believe that all of them were hungry if they were doing coke. SWIM got a little hungry once after doing it all night long from 7pm. But thats deifnitEly not been the norm for SWIM

[DaveC426913]

Originally Posted by dolphinsnow18

coke makes one NOT HUngry. SWIM Knows for sure Pot makes ya hungry.

"some people" though its rare. It would also be hard to believe that all of them were hungry if they were doing coke. SWIM got a little hungry once after doing it all night long from 7pm. But thats deifnitEly not been the norm for SWIM

When we did the drug test, the strongest result was Amphetamines (stronger even, a week later, than coke). This surprised him. He figures that's probably what the coke was cut with - he knows it wasn't the best grade stuff. He said "that's probably why I haven't been able to sleep!" (He'd also been spotted doing some frenetic housecleaning in the middle of the night).

I think (hope) that this alone - the realization that he doesn't even know what kind of crap he might have been putting into his body - might cause him to think twice or thrice about willy nilly drug use.

[dolphinsnow18]

Originally Posted by DaveC426913

I think (hope) that this alone - the realization that he doesn't even know what kind of crap he might have been putting into his body - might cause him to think twice or thrice about willy nilly drug use.

Statistics show your wishful thinking to be cerebral excercises in futility if he is getting a pleasant euphoria from whatever he's doing. However, hopefully he will seek out more information as to what he's using.

[DaveC426913]

Originally Posted by dolphinsnow18

Statistics show your wishful thinking to be cerebral excercises in futility if he is getting a pleasant euphoria from whatever he's doing.

Hang on. We're not talking here about regular, informed use (I assume most drug users aren't completely ignorant of what they're doing).

He'd have to be a special kind of stupid to snort stuff when he knows it's not as advertised.

[dolphinsnow18]

Originally Posted by DaveC426913

Hang on. We're not talking here about regular, informed use (I assume most drug users aren't completely ignorant of what they're doing).

He'd have to be a special kind of stupid to snort stuff when he knows it's not as advertised.

thats why I said "if he is getting a pleasant euphoria" in my previous post.
Obviously, if one isnt getting the expected high, there is no reason to do it.

[DaveC426913]

Please note that, while we are discussing the concept of gateway drugs, that does not mean I support the philosophy or thinking behind the idea. Nor am I interested in broadening the discussion to debate its merits.

I am concerned only with my child's circumstance. In his circumstance, pot was the first drug of any sort that he chose to do that his parents never did in the house and never will do in the house and will never allow to be done in the house, by us, him or any of his friends - or our friends.

It is simply where we have drawn the line. It is legally somewhat arbitrary, I grant (the counter-argument "But it isn't even illegal" doesn't wash here.). The real infraction here is "You broke your our number one rule. you have shown the greatest disrespect."

Reputation Comments on this post:

Dave, you've shown the patience of a saint with this thread, & that deserves some credit! Best of luck with the boy,...

[Bajeda]

Whoa, lets settle down here, its getting a bit emotional, and not in a good way, people seem to be getting heated over a side issue that isn't especially intrinsic to the discussion. Still, its been raised, so I am going to try to lay this out plainly so you can understand why the gateway theory for marijuana has been so controversial.


Firstly, yes Dave most people use marijuana first before other drugs. This doesn't make it a gateway drug though.

For any scientific conclusion, you have to have causal evidence. This is a situation where its easy to see that lots of people use marijuana first and then go on to other substances.

I can see three major points of error that science generally avoids that we can make just casually debating about the gateway theory.

Selective Observation (Tendency to "see" what supports our hypothesis but ignore what refutes it... you always need to try and refute the argument if you want to prove it)

Ex Post Facto Hypothesizing (Creating explanations after the fact)

Conjunction Error (Tendency for people to see an event as more likely as it becomes more specific because it is joined with elements that seem similar to events that are likely. The actual likelihood of an event being true declines when it becomes more specific because additional elements must also be true for the overall event to be true)


All of these can apply to creating explanations for a correlation that aren't actually proven to be causal in nature even if they seem to be.

For instance...

X= Smoking Pot Y= Doing Other Drugs


X ------->Y
X <-------Y


X <------ Z ------> Y

Where Z = Socioeconomic status, personality, culture, hereditary factors, etc. etc.


To infer cause you need to do a scientific experiment, as you need the presumed cause and effect to be correlated ( Marijuana use and future coke use actually have had a negative correlation in the past... http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth13.shtml), the presumed cause must preced the presumed effect in time (ok you got that covered for your son at least, though eliminating alcohol doesn't work due to this and the next factor) and alternative explanations must be elminated (alcohol, 'Z' factors listed above?).


Now here an article posted recently ----> http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=25752&

This was a longitudinal study, so you can't positively establish causation, but on the flip side the presumed cause precedes the presumed effect in time and cumulative effects / long term effects can be examined.

This is good, as weed can definitely be a gateway drug while its illegal. Its simple, you buy weed from a dealer who could possibly have hooks for other drugs, or if the dealer doesn't his dealer must right? These things get mixed somewhere along the way (at quite a few levels it seems) so in the short term if you smoking marijuana you are quite possibly more likely to do other substances if they are available through the dealer. This is an effect of prohibition, probably not the drug, which is what the longitudinal study linked to above seems to suggest.



There isn't concrete causal evidence on the gateway theory yet, but the evidence is certainly point away from popular government and media conceptions/portrayals.


So just keep that in mind, that there might be a 'Z' factor you are missing, possibly due to the problems I listed above in bold that make carefully designed, peer-reviewed research necessary. Sorry for the psych stuff, I just find it helpful to put myself into perspective, especially when looking at things on a broader scale.

[DaveC426913]

Fair enough. An associative connection is not the same as a causal connection.

OTOH, showing that pot is indeed a gateway drug is also secondary (at least in a practical sense to parents). It is enough to show that there is an associative connection. i.e. if they're doing pot, there's a higher likelihood they're also doing or going to do other related stuff.

If the pot were happening in isolation, it wouldn't be as alarming as seeing them do it while smoking, while drinking heavily, while hanging out with other drug users. In short, they seem to embrace the lifestyle.

[partyguy420]

actualy swim thinks it is cokcain to... he gets the same way... but swim is weird... when he dose coke... or meth... he can eat like he just smoke a bowl of weed....