Opinions - Parent needs help identifying drug use of son (is it cocaine?)

[Creeping Death]

SWIM is in the same situation, that's all. SWIM is an occasional user, and will not quit using cocaine for any rules or counsellors.

[DaveC426913]

Originally Posted by Creeping Death

SWIM is in the same situation, that's all. SWIM is an occasional user, and will not quit using cocaine for any rules or counsellors.

I imagine you'd quit voluntarily though, if it was going to cost you the roof over your head and the food in your belly.

[Creeping Death]

Originally Posted by DaveC426913

I imagine you'd quit voluntarily though, if it was going to cost you the roof over your head and the food in your belly.

But that might not be fair to SWIM, because it's not really voluntary. SWIM would like to live with you and use coke. And SWIM sees no problem with this.

Maybe you should ask SWIM why he is not as worried as you are?

[DaveC426913]

Originally Posted by Creeping Death

SWIM would like to live with you and use coke. And SWIM sees no problem with this.

I'm really not sure how to respond to this. I'm not in the habit of voting on house policy. There's only two parents here.

[Nagognog2]

In the USA, the problem with many of these "drug-councilors" is they are trained to spread disinformation and hysteria. Such things as "Marijuana makes boys grow female breasts" and "LSD causes permanent insanity with a single use." I don't know what the educational background of Canadian-trained councilors is, but I'm glad you're coming here for further information and opinions. That's what we are here for.

[DaveC426913]

Well, last night, the prodigal son returneth. He made all the usual noises about not wanting to mess stuff up and didn't realize he was hurting anyone, blah blah.

I asked him 'why today'? If we said no, where would he stay tonight? He didn't know, he'd used up his favours everywhere else.

So, not a lot of progress, but I think he'll fly straight for a while. This isn't over by a long shot.

[highganja99]

A simple step would be the locate the CD case and wipe your finger across it to pick up any residue - you could do the "lick" test if you know what your looking for and the color of the powder might be useful too. infact you can get coke detection swabs that you just wet and smear across where you think there has been coke and if there has the swabs turns dark blue. A similar situation i remember was when i found out my son had 2C-I bought online, i couldnt figure out what the hell it was until it was on the news a couple of nights later, bad timing for him i guess. It could be anythign and the fact they rub it on their gums makes it harder to guess what it is as i would only attribute that with coaine use. Other possibilities include ritalin,adderall (ADHD Medications),(methyl)amphetamine. It would seem to be a stimulant in use but you cannot rule out the many drugs there are that could be used in this way.

[Nicaine]

This thread is soooo serious... I guess it has just as much right to be on a drugs forum as any other drug-related topic, but it's a little depressing to encounter ingrained, unbending attitudes toward drugs (not to mention toward the behavior of one's children -- human behavior is unpredictable and can't always be "nice" and "safe"... particularly as children grow up into adulthood).

Why not lighten up a little bit, DaveC426913. It's your business how you deal with the fruit of your loins of course, but soliciting opinions on a drugs forum makes it everyone else's business as well. I hope things work out well for both you and your son, where "well" eventually comes to mean compromise. Otherwise I see a potential for damage to the relationship -- we're dealing with essentially two adults now, and it always takes two to tango.

[DaveC426913]

Originally Posted by Nicaine

This thread is soooo serious... I guess it has just as much right to be on a drugs forum as any other drug-related topic,

I confess I came here merely for advice on identifying the drug in question, but the discussion has been interesting and has dragged out much longer than originally intended. Nobody seems to mind continuing.

Originally Posted by Nicaine

but it's a little depressing to encounter ingrained, unbending attitudes toward drugs (not to mention toward the behavior of one's children -- human behavior is unpredictable and can't always be "nice" and "safe"... particularly as children grow up into adulthood).

I'm not sure if I'm understadning you correctly, but it sounds like you're taking my specific actions and thoughts on this matter and generalizing. I'm not sure what I've said that's ingrained or unbending.

As for nice and safe behaviour of one's children, the whole point is that they learn the connection between their actions and the consequences, right? This isn't a full-grown adult who is capable of maknig his own decisions about his life, this is a person who has been on the planet for 21 years, and has never been away from his parents, never paid a bill, never not had a safety net under him. He doesn't understand what's he's getting into, and he thinks he has nothing to lose.

Originally Posted by Nicaine

Why not lighten up a little bit, DaveC426913. It's your business how you deal with the fruit of your loins of course, but soliciting opinions on a drugs forum makes it everyone else's business as well. I hope things work out well for both you and your son, where "well" eventually comes to mean compromise. Otherwise I see a potential for damage to the relationship -- we're dealing with essentially two adults now, and it always takes two to tango.

No, we're not dealing with an adult. He still has the mentality of a teen. Some day, he will leave home, leave the safety net, and manage to survive, and THEN, when he comes back, he'll be an adult.

Until then, believe you me, he is quite happy to <strike>let us</strike> demand that we pick him up, dust him off and push in the right direction.

He came home because he does not want to be an adult yet.

[bewilderment]

Originally Posted by DaveC426913

He came home because he does not want to be an adult yet.

Sorry to suddenly butt in, but I've been following this thread out of sheer curiosity. I'm just wondering what sort of financial situation your son is in...you mentioned that he had a job, but not whether or not the job pays enough for him to sustain himself independently. Did he happen to go to college?

I ask because I know of many around here that don't move out of their parents home until later because it's extremely difficult to find jobs which offer enough pay until one has experience. Even with college degrees is it very difficult and most find themselves in an unmanageable situation upon graduation because one then may have loans to pay back and a job that may barely make ends meet if one is so lucky.

My friend swim is also thanking her lucky stars that her mother never gave her such an ultimatum. She's had drug abuse problems since around the age of 14 which her mother was aware of pretty much throughout everything. This is because her mother was constantly snooping: reading her journal, breaking into her email account, putting a key-logger on her computer, and even having a motion detector on the liquor cabinet at one point. Her mother never used the "tough love" approach, however. But, maybe swim's situation was a bit more complicated because the first time her mother broke into her e-mail account where she happened to be keeping a journal, her mother discovered that swim was severely depressed and suicidal even going so far as writing a suicide note and playing with a loaded gun for quite awhile one night during the recent time period before deciding that she would wait a little while before she made a definite decision about ending her own life. Swim was put into counseling immediately which her mother attended along with her. But the drug use never actually stopped until things became completely unavailable to swim. Her mother seems to have remained aware of all of it, really, because it's hard to hide things when one is constantly under surveillance --she recalls an episode even earlier, when she was in middle school and her mother searched her room from top to bottom and actually found a pack of cigarettes swim was hiding inside of a bean-bag chair of all places. Swim would also sometimes not realize that her mother had been keeping tabs on something or another until she intervened at some critical juncture --whenever things got completely out of hand.

But, by the age of 16 swim had others, family members such as cousins close to her own age but living independently, who were more than happy to let swim move in. She seriously considered it because she didn't want her privacy invaded anymore, but ultimately stayed at home. This may have played a role in why her mother never offered ultimatums. She still had people she could live with by the age of 18, but her mother most likely wanted to keep her around by that time because she feared that things would really get out of control if she lived with others who really didn't mind the drug usage or who would be oblivious to such. However, at the age of 18 her mother quit snooping for the most part because she believed it was time for swim to simply learn from her mistakes instead of having her mother controlling such. But, swim never used so-called "hard drugs" when she was living with her mother and things may have been different if she had been. Another factor may have been simply that her mother would have been lonely without swim around because swim is an only child and her mother is a single parent. This also lead to a bit of a different relationship between the two than most parents have with their children. Ever since her parents divorced when she was 10, swim felt more like she had a roommate because she was always involved in decision-making that would affect the both of them.

Anyway, swim ended up moving out when she was 20 to move in with her current partner. She used a student loan to pay her half of the bills during the first year, but now is simply having to rely on the financial assistance her partner still gets from her own parents as well as her partner's income. Swim has been looking for jobs, but doesn't get any offers which she believes has to do with her limited job experience, lack of degree, and also that she still doesn't have a local phone number (she and her partner always just use cell phones and she still has her old phone number). Her mother can only afford to help with swim's car insurance and cell phone bill. Her partner turns 25 next month and also has a bachelor's degree. However, at the moment her partner makes $22,000 a year which is barely enough to pay rent, utilities, and buy groceries so her parents are still helping them financially.

Swim still uses drugs, but is not addicted to anything at the moment. She did still have some problems when she initially moved out, but things got sorted out because she was in an environment where she was happy and also because her partner does not use drugs to excess. Her partner will use certain substances and play along every so often and does not mind swim's drug usage so long as it is not putting them in a financial bind, but she simply does not have the problems with moderation that swim has. So, often swim finds herself comparing her usage to that of her partner's and will realize that she is using more than is probably healthy and try to rectify the situation.

However, if the situation had been different and her mother kicked her out then swim would have probably moved in with her cousin who is now addicted to meth (and also uses marijuana, prescription drugs, cocaine, really anything that's around). So, most likely swim's addiction problems would have only become worse.

So, I have to ask: what kinds of options does your son have if he doesn't comply to your rules? I have known many people who end up living with other drug addicts because they cannot support themselves financially and usually the situation only becomes worse. Yes, they may eventually sort things out if they don't OD or get put in prison, but it's a gamble.

I apologize for droning on so long and if some of this is irrelevant, but I thought I'd share a bit. I respect your parenting as it seems more rational than many others out there. It is ultimately your decision and since it's your house you have every right to kick him out if he doesn't follow the rules you put forth. Also, it could be a little lesson in responsibility if you were to have him pay rent or something...charging less than what he would have to pay to rent somewhere else and something he could afford without having to pay every cent he earns. It would take a bit of the money he's using towards drugs out of his hands anyway and it may give him a push in the directions towards being independent because he would most likely start getting the idea of "Well, I'm already having to pay to live here where I have to abide by someone else's rules so I may as well try to save up so I can live someplace where I can do as I please."

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fantastic response

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by DaveC426913

No, we're not dealing with an adult. He still has the mentality of a teen. Some day, he will leave home, leave the safety net, and manage to survive, and THEN, when he comes back, he'll be an adult.

Until then, believe you me, he is quite happy to <strike>let us</strike> demand that we pick him up, dust him off and push in the right direction.

He came home because he does not want to be an adult yet.

Allow me to rephrase then -- you have some very rigid, fixed ideas about what it is to be an adult, what an unequal proposition it is to be a younger member of your family, and how others should behave. You're clearly hyper-aware of your status as a parental authority figure. "Behave the way I TELL you, or GET OUT, because it's MY house and *I* say what you can and can't do, like I've *always* done and you'd *better* listen, blah blah..."

Frankly, if it were me I'd be anxious to get out and stay out. I'm not sure I'd even keep in touch. He must have been quite overprotected growing up.

[DaveC426913]

He and his brother, being of this generation, are totally disillusioned about post-secondary education and job security. They have no idea what to do with their lives. They have min wage jobs - though recently they've both landed manual labour jobs which pay better.

They do pay a token amount of rent - about 1/4 of what a bachelor apartment might cost.

The lesson they haven't learned yet is that the freedoms they want (such as complete control over their lives) have to be earned. They simply don't get that living in their parents' house. This is motivation for them to earn more money and move out. The corolloary of course, is that, should they choose to take some aspect of control of thier lives (such as, I feel like doing coke), then we must realize that it is not a decision made in a vacuum.


Anyway, in regards to your friend toying with suicide, that's why we ensured he knew he could come back. He wasn't abandoned so much as warned. Talk's cheap. Actions speak.

[bewilderment]

I see. It makes sense then why he moved back in. It would take some planning to be able to manage a way to live somewhere else which would probably as he'd have to somehow find a job that pays more and try to find a roommate or something. Does he seem to have any such plans at the moment?

And as an aside, it seems that there are a lot of people who have manual labor jobs who tend to (ab)use stimulants since they increase physical endurance, alertness, energy, etc. I've personally only known closely about 6 people who do such jobs and 4 of them use stimulants such as amphetamines, meth, or cocaine. Of the other two, one of them smoked pot regularly (but, I don't think he would have smoked so much if his wife hadn't been doing the same) and the other was drug-free and I haven't ever seen him even touch alcohol. I've also read that it's pretty common. I was extremely surprised when I once found a baggie of cocaine in my 56 year old uncle's home because he never struck me as the type who would use such...I also wonder whether or not my aunt knew because she also doesn't seem to be the type who would put up with hard drug usage. He happened to work installing elevators in new buildings being constructed. It doesn't sound like it's work-related in your son's case but I wouldn't be surprised if he's hanging around others who use such at work.

I wish you the best with the situation.

[Powder_Reality]

SWIM will add his 2 cents to this discussion, as he has dealt with a similar situation.

SWIM moved out of his house when he was 16 because he didn't get along with his parents. The main reason that he didn't get along with his parents was because SWIM regularly smoked weed and would come home red-eyed and harsh-looking every night. To this day SWIM still thinks that his parents were being too hard on him for just smoking weed, but SWIM's parents are not exactly open-minded when it comes to teenage drug use (and who can blame them?). During this time SWIM was also taking several different antidepressants and antipsychotics for his OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder). This combined with the teenage mindset that the whole world is against them and that they know everything about everything didn't mix very well.

SWIM spent a few months couch-surfing from place to place, but his parents always allowed him to come back home for a night or two when he had no other place to stay. When SWIM finally moved out he didn't have any money saved, he just moved in with a friend as soon as he got a job and started paying rent. They lived in a basement suite and he continued to smoke weed regularly. He also quit taking his meds cold-turkey and suffered through a terrible withdrawal. But SWIM is glad that he quit because he feels that in his case he didn't need them and they were just muffling and distorting his emotions, etc.

When SWIM was living in the basement suite, there were about 4 people living in it, including 2 who were living rent-free. SWIM and his original roommate moved into an apartment somewhere else and SWIM was able to find a better job (although it was the same kind of job: cooking). SWIM learned quickly what it's like to be a "responsible" adult, especially one that enjoys altering his consciousness. A minimum wage job is NOT enough to pay bills, pay rent, buy groceries, and all the other essentials of living on your own (even with the bills split 2 ways). The only way that SWIM was able to eat was when he ate at work for free or his parents bought him some groceries (once again the safety-net). SWIM still regularly smoked weed and liked to try every substance that passed by him, and this ate up a good amount of his cash.

It seems like every drug counselor SWIM sees on TV says that a full-blown addict needs to hit rock-bottom before he turns his life around; and SWIM does agree with this statement to some degree. When SWIM turned 17 he had already experienced what life was like as an average-joe working man living on his own, and it wasn't fun. He never made enough money for rent, was ALWAYS hungry, had to deal with people freeloading on his couch, and was always broke. SWIM decided that he needed to move back into his parents house because he just couldn't make it on his own with a minimum wage job.

SWIM worked a night-job while he was living at home, and a lot of employees used cocaine as a way to pass the time and stay awake. SWIM used cocaine quite a few times, but never got "addicted" to it. He may have felt cravings for it at certain times, but if he couldn't afford it then he couldn't afford it. SWIM spent most of his paychecks on drugs since he wasn't paying rent anymore, and usually ran out of cash halfway between pay periods. SWIM eventually became tired of this and decided to quit everything and start living sober for a while. SWIM lived clean and sober for about a year and during this time he was able to grow mentally and start thinking more about the future.

SWIM is now 18 and although he is still rather young, he has already experienced life as a working-class adult. SWIM uses marijuana semi-regularly, but mostly just to help him sleep whenever he experiences one of his insomnia spells. SWIM also enjoys dosing MDMA on special occasions and trying other substances that pass by him, but it no longer puts a dent in his bank account since he was saving money while he was living sober. SWIM is now in the process of finishing his high school education and is hoping to get into college or university and study either business or pharmacy.

So sorry for kind of rambling on and on about SWIM's life story, but it seemed to relate well to the subject. In SWIM's opinion teens and young people need to experience things first-hand before they learn to make good decisions that work for themselves and everyone else around them. SWIM was lucky enough to experience the outside world for himself while he was young. Although it wasn't always a fun experience, it was still a good learning experience and it helped SWIM to make the decisions that he needed to make about his life.

DaveC426913, SWIM thinks that you are handling the situation quite well and is also happy to see that you turned to other sources for drug information instead of just believing all the anti-drug propaganda you see on TV. Too many parents these days deal with similar situations by coming on way too strong and aggressively while spewing bullshit "facts" that they heard from DARE. SWIM hopes that everything works out for you guys.

Reputation Comments on this post:

another excellent post

[DaveC426913]

Originally Posted by bewilderment

find a job that pays more and try to find a roommate or something. Does he seem to have any such plans at the moment?

No. Again, still a 21-year-old teen. He's recently gotten himself his very first ever girlfriend though. It is the two of them that are feeding each other in this drug habit.

Originally Posted by bewilderment

It doesn't sound like it's work-related in your son's case but I wouldn't be surprised if he's hanging around others who use such at work.

Yeah. He worked in a donut shop. With an all female staff. The kind of girls/women who work in donut shops. Not likely.

We were very proud of how long he'd held that job. Two years. That was a huge achievement for someone who has habitually walked away from everything.

But he lost that job recently because of chronic lateness (we suspect that his recent drug habit and girlfriend pushed an existing lateness over the edge).

Ironically, he was well-liked. He's a very sociable, upbeat kind of guy.

[bewilderment]

Originally Posted by DaveC426913

No. Again, still a 21-year-old teen. He's recently gotten himself his very first ever girlfriend though. It is the two of them that are feeding each other in this drug habit.

Yeah. He worked in a donut shop. With an all female staff. The kind of girls/women who work in donut shops. Not likely.

We were very proud of how long he'd held that job. Two years. That was a huge achievement for someone who has habitually walked away from everything.

But he lost that job recently because of chronic lateness (we suspect that his recent drug habit and girlfriend pushed an existing lateness over the edge).

Ironically, he was well-liked. He's a very sociable, upbeat kind of guy.

Yeah, I was wondering whether or not his girlfriend also used drugs. Do you happen to know if she uses cocaine? It's going to be incredibly tempting for him to continue use if she does. Although, it would depend partially on who was using in the first place. Swim has usually found that drug-users often pick up habits from whoever they are in a relationship with.

Swim's current spouse didn't use drugs nearly as much as swim did when the relationship began. She smoked marijuana a couple times a week and had used ecstacy a few times when she was a DJ, but nothing major. Swim, however, smoked pot daily and had a pretty serious psychological dependency on dissociatives/hallucinogens. Her partner seemed to be trying to impress swim or somehow get into swim's mindstate and jumped headfirst into the substances that swim used. It actually scared swim a bit at one point during a short drug-binge her partner got herself into. Her partner also tried to fit in with swim's family and bond with them which meant that two nights while they both stayed overnight at her cousin's house, they used meth. Swim had already declined the offer so as not to put her partner in an awkward position, but when swim's cousin made the same offer to swim's spouse she was all for it so swim decided to join in as well. It wasn't anything special or intense for either one of them and they never used again. But, her spouse fainted the next day when coming down and continued to have fainting spells for a few weeks. The doctors never determined the cause exactly, but her partner found out that she had a heart murmur that apparently everyone knew about except her which may have been a contributing factor . Swim felt awful for playing a part in the ordeal.

But, now that they've been together for almost two years swim's partner has gone back to the same sort of usage patterns she had before she met swim. It seems that it may be mostly the first part of the relationship during the initial bonding when the person really tries to get into the same interests as the one they love.

However, I do think it's great that he has a girlfriend. Having a good, healthy relationship often pushes one in a positive direction. If things work out with her (or maybe with someone else that comes along in time) then maybe he'll finally take the initiative and move out and maybe into a place with her where they could both work towards paying bills.

Sorry about the other comment with the co-workers. I just saw "manual labor" which, for me usually means a job such as construction, painting, working on roofs, etc. where there seems to be a larger percentage of stimulant use compared to some other professions out there.

I'm also curious: you mentioned before that you don't bug him about marijuana use when he wasn't at home. Are you as strict about that as other drugs? While you have every right to enforce whichever rules you choose, it seems that it may be a bit harder for some to stop usage of various substances all at once especially if his friends use...he'd most likely continue smoking pot if for no other purpose then just to fit in. In swim's experience, drug users most often like to hang out with other drug users and whenever a person stops completely they most often find new friends because a) they don't want to be around drug usage when they are sober and/or b) people often feel uncomfortable using drugs around people who have sobered up. In any case, swim feels that one should be more tolerant of marijuana use as long as one is not using to an extent that it impairs important activities or development. Marijuana is actually less harmful than alcohol. The only real downsides are that it is illegal (I'll never really understand why) and that often people who use it are more likely to come into contact with others using "harder" drugs which can lead to them to trying other things and making drug contacts...not that I'm calling it a "gateway drug".

All the best.

Reputation Comments on this post:

great post, especially the part about drug users sobering up.

[DaveC426913]

Originally Posted by bewilderment

Yeah, I was wondering whether or not his girlfriend also used drugs. Do you happen to know if she uses cocaine? It's going to be incredibly tempting for him to continue use if she does. Although, it would depend partially on who was using in the first place. Swim has usually found that drug-users often pick up habits from whoever they are in a relationship with.

While he has done coke in the past, it was his gf that got him on it this time (though we have to account for a lopsided story). She is continuing to it after he has decided to quit, and he has told her not to do it when she's around (again, this may or may not be true - our son has a long history of lying his way out of trouble.)

He is also a follower.

However, I do think it's great that he has a girlfriend. Having a good, healthy relationship often pushes one in a positive direction. If things work out with her (or maybe with someone else that comes along in time) then maybe he'll finally take the initiative and move out and maybe into a place with her where they could both work towards paying bills.

Yeah. Well, we've had quite a few people tell us in confidence that "she is a bad influence". If the above is true, then this is not so healthy a pairing.

He is spending virtually all his free time with her now, and we suspect he'll make noises about moving in with her soon. (A bit of a jump - this is his first girlfriend.)

I'm also curious: you mentioned before that you don't bug him about marijuana use when he wasn't at home. Are you as strict about that as other drugs? While you have every right to enforce whichever rules you choose, it seems that it may be a bit harder for some to stop usage of various substances all at once especially if his friends use...he'd most likely continue smoking pot if for no other purpose then just to fit in. In swim's experience, drug users most often like to hang out with other drug users and whenever a person stops completely they most often find new friends because a) they don't want to be around drug usage when they are sober and/or b) people often feel uncomfortable using drugs around people who have sobered up. In any case, swim feels that one should be more tolerant of marijuana use as long as one is not using to an extent that it impairs important activities or development. Marijuana is actually less harmful than alcohol. The only real downsides are that it is illegal (I'll never really understand why) and that often people who use it are more likely to come into contact with others using "harder" drugs which can lead to them to trying other things and making drug contacts...not that I'm calling it a "gateway drug".

One of the diffs between pot and cocaine is that cocaine can literally, simply kill you.

We were strict about pot until they turned 18. Now we have to balance our "wishes" with our respect for their decisions as adults. We still don't allow any drugs of any sort on the property. We do still see pot as a gateway drug, and have extant proof to back that up. We have even had to temporarily intervene on abuse of alcohol. These poor kids don't even realize that there's a whole world of people out there that don't do pot 3x/week and booze 7x/week as a form of recreation. A little late to be finding them constructive influences now...

[darawk]

Originally Posted by DaveC426913

One of the diffs between pot and cocaine is that cocaine can literally, simply kill you.

Ignorance kills, cocaine doesn't. Your son could die driving to school tomorrow, he could also die from cocaine. Instead of trying to simply make him stop using "hard" drugs, you should talk to him about them and how he can use them safely. He's going to do them eventually whether you want him to or not - but if he gets in trouble do you think he'd come to you for help or would he be too afraid?

We were strict about pot until they turned 18. Now we have to balance our "wishes" with our respect for their decisions as adults. We still don't allow any drugs of any sort on the property. We do still see pot as a gateway drug, and have extant proof to back that up. We have even had to temporarily intervene on abuse of alcohol. These poor kids don't even realize that there's a whole world of people out there that don't do pot 3x/week and booze 7x/week as a form of recreation. A little late to be finding them constructive influences now...

Marijuana is not a gateway drug anymore than alcohol or cigarettes(there is real, conclusive, proof of this in the form of a NIDA funded study). And while you're right that plenty of people go through life just fine without drugs, many people go through it just fine with them. If you tell him "don't do drugs because they'll ruin your life" - he'll resent you and he won't listen. He knows that's bullshit, there are plenty of successful and intelligent drug users out there.

The only good choice you have here is to talk to him as if he were another 'real' adult - not your son. If you outright say "you can't do this" he'll still do it, or more. And worse, if he gets in trouble or gets hurt, he won't come to you for help.

An important thing to keep in mind is that there is no such thing as a bad drug, only bad drug use. Don't judge the severity of the situation by which drugs he's doing, judge it by how they're affecting his life and how much control they seem to have over him.

[bewilderment]

Originally Posted by DaveC426913

While he has done coke in the past, it was his gf that got him on it this time (though we have to account for a lopsided story). She is continuing to it after he has decided to quit, and he has told her not to do it when she's around (again, this may or may not be true - our son has a long history of lying his way out of trouble.)

He is also a follower.


Yeah. Well, we've had quite a few people tell us in confidence that "she is a bad influence". If the above is true, then this is not so healthy a pairing.

He is spending virtually all his free time with her now, and we suspect he'll make noises about moving in with her soon. (A bit of a jump - this is his first girlfriend.)



One of the diffs between pot and cocaine is that cocaine can literally, simply kill you.

We were strict about pot until they turned 18. Now we have to balance our "wishes" with our respect for their decisions as adults. We still don't allow any drugs of any sort on the property. We do still see pot as a gateway drug, and have extant proof to back that up. We have even had to temporarily intervene on abuse of alcohol. These poor kids don't even realize that there's a whole world of people out there that don't do pot 3x/week and booze 7x/week as a form of recreation. A little late to be finding them constructive influences now...

I agree about the differences between pot and cocaine and do understand why you are much more concerned about the cocaine. Now, Swim has never tried cocaine, but does have interest in it and would do so if she ever has the chance. Still, drugs which one hears about so many people dying on is scary and it still frightens her a bit whenever she learns that anyone she knows is using "hard substances". I always put that phrase in quotes because I really don't know where to draw the line. All drugs have their positive and negative consequences...Alcohol and tobacco kill many people --not just because they are used by more people, but just because they cause more damage than many illegal drugs-- every year. I wouldn't call tobacco a hard drug nor really would I call alcohol such, but it is a nasty drug which has more documentation of causing extremely serious health ailments and the intoxication (which isn't as enjoyable as most drugs which are illegal) just doesn't seem to outweigh the possible harmful health effects. Likewise, some drugs which may possibly cause brain damage aren't commonly termed "hard drugs".

I don't think that comparing alcohol and cocaine was appropriate. They do, however, carry the same possible consequences such as overdose resulting in death, brain damage (I've heard more about alcohol causing it more than cocaine though), serious health ailments and problems functioning if one becomes out of control with usage. But, personally, I would consider cocaine a "harder" drug simply because of its addiction potential (the effects wear off very quickly which leads more to addictive-type behavior) and the fact that it's easier to O.D. on. Oh, and the fact that it can be cut with things as you mentioned (which wouldn't have to be so if it weren't for these silly drug laws which don't allow regulation!).

Nevertheless, all drugs can be used responsibly, even drugs such as cocaine and heroin. Does your son have any interest in harm reduction at all or does he just do whatever because his friends say it's safe? Because that is certainly something to be concerned about. It worries me when people I know do drugs which they know virtually nothing about. My pal, Swim, tries her best to educate herself as thoroughly as possible so as to play safe. Some general good rules for responsible use are here (although chemically testing EVERYTHING would be pretty impossible for the average joe): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsible_drug_use

The girlfriend does sound like a problem, but I guess there's not much to do about it. I would think, though, that if he were very serious about not doing cocaine then he would be distancing himself from her if she's using...unless, he's just head over heels in love. Two drug-users together can be good or bad. As I mentioned before, it's been good for swim because her partner uses drugs sparingly which encourages swim to make better choices, but swim also doesn't feel like she's constantly being judged because she knows her partner doesn't disapprove. But, swim can easily see how if she were involved with someone enthusiastic about drugs, it could be a disaster. What things have you heard of the girlfriend? Is she an addict (or on that path) or just an occasional user?

It could be a bad move for him to move in with her if she is encouraging usage....people who are young, in love, euphoric, feel-on-top of the world, inexperienced in life, and both have "hard" drug-use as a pastime (or lifestyle?) can easily get carried away. Again, as I mentioned, swim got a bit carried away with drug use when she first moved in with her partner and away from her mother's watchful eye. If one isn't allowed to do something at home and then suddenly has all the freedom in the world, they may become overzealous and get into some trouble. This is why I asked about his options concerning living quarters...drug-users tend to fuel each other's drug use if both are heavy users. It's can be a good partnership if at least one is sensible, but if the two are reckless then things can turn ugly. Does the girlfriend seem more mature?

It does seem a leap to move in with his first girlfriend, but so did swim although luckily everything is turning out beautifully so far--going on two years. Does he seem like he really loves her or is he maybe just trying to find a way to move out so he can continue using cocaine in privacy?

And, as far as the whole gateway drug...well, I don't really think there is such a thing. My opinion is that for some reason or another, some are more inclined to do drugs more than others (maybe open-mindedness, thrill-seeking, rebelliousness, or many many other reasons). From whom I've known (which isn't an extended amount of people as I'm rather introverted), those who use drugs to "fit in" with a certain crowd usually don't keep using drugs for years and years since the crowd they hang out with will likely change. These people also are usually introduced to marijuana as their first illegal drugs by friends. Other people have the desire to try drugs for whatever reason on their own will often end up changing their friends if the ones they have do not use drugs.

I've always found the term "Gateway Drug" to be a strange concept. Basically, whatever a drug-curious person gets their hands on first is the gateway drug. Most often, the easiest substances to procure are alcohol, tobacco, and marijuana (or perhaps prescription narcotics). And, since so many seek to demonize marijuana, it is often said to be "the" gateway drug. It also can tend to lead to other illegal drugs because as I mentioned, making contacts occurs if one is buying MJ and using with others...but, also because people find out that they've been so entirely misinformed about marijuana by everyone telling them it's some horrible, awful thing that they figure people are lying about the other illegal substances as well. And, there is a lot of lying going on out there and the dangers of "hard drugs" are greatly exaggerated in general, but people need to actually do the research and figure out what they are getting into before they do it. Most drug-users out there don't have a clue about the how what they are ingesting works or how i interacts with their bodies or other substances and that's where people get in trouble.

But, as far as having friends who are drug-users, there are different types of drug-users. Many pot-smokers look down on any other drug. Some hallucinogen users do the same. And there are plenty of illegal drug-users who abhor drinking alcohol on a regular to semi-regular basis...or just abstain from it completely. There are generally benign drug-using groups of friends and also those who are reckless, engage in other criminal behavior, and are just of bad character. Sometimes having other drug-users as friends can be good because a person is more likely to open up to another user about their habit than to a non-user and if the user friend is more responsible then they can help keep the other in check. What kind of people do his friends seem to be?

I'd be rather worried about the girlfriend thing if she happens to have a large drug-appetite. But, likely, if they did move in together it would be short-lived because drug habits are expensive (does she have a job?) and one or both may become grumpy without and problems would most likely arise.

Has counseling already begun? Is there any progress there?

[DaveC426913]

Oh, and I forgot to mention: we were extremely proud when, a few months back he took it upon himself to finish his HS education. Without an ounce of help from us, he did all the paperwork took the tests, etc, and is now working toward his HS equivalent diploma.

This is huge. It is one of the first times we have ever seen him take any sort of responsibility and exhibit any kind of motivation.

(And one of the reasons why we never saw it coming when we were told about his habit.)


We will try to concentrate on these positives. I think he wants to as well. (Though what he wants now, and what he'll still want three months from now is a crap shoot).

One day at a time...

Thanks all.

[Nagognog2]

"Yeah. He worked in a donut shop. With an all female staff. The kind of girls/women who work in donut shops. Not likely. "

Pardon me, but I have known some very sweet and intelligent women who have worked in donut shops, wait-staff positions, many lower-tier jobs. This was generally due to a lack of financial resources (a). And a sexist attitude in society that means a single girl, alone, must have something wrong with them and can be paid less (b).

I, sir, must take offence at this portion of your missive.

[DaveC426913]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

"Yeah. He worked in a donut shop. With an all female staff. The kind of girls/women who work in donut shops. Not likely. "

Pardon me, but I have known some very sweet and intelligent women who have worked in donut shops, wait-staff positions, many lower-tier jobs. This was generally due to a lack of financial resources (a). And a sexist attitude in society that means a single girl, alone, must have something wrong with them and can be paid less (b).

I, sir, must take offence at this portion of your missive.

Please re-read the relevant posts before (mis)judging.

The post that prompted my response was thus:

Originally Posted by bewilderment

...I wouldn't be surprised if he's hanging around others who use such at work.

I'm comfortable betting money that his intelligent, mature, female fellow employees are not cokeheads in their spare time.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by DaveC426913

I'm comfortable betting money that his intelligent, mature, female fellow employees are not cokeheads in their spare time.

The reference to "female" above is pure sexism, in SWIM's opinion.

As for the rest, he's known "intelligent, mature cokeheads" but of course it depends on one's criteria for intelligence, definition of maturity and particularly what one considers a "cokehead" to be (aside from a derogatory term used to insult or belittle).

SWIY is still displaying fixed/repetitive patterns of thought; from here, it looks like a combination of rigid conditioning and lack of insight into one's own inability to think outside the box (perhaps known in some circles as social conservatism). Given this, I'll just approach the matter on your own level: How come your son is a "cokehead" if you're such a great parent? If he's lacking in maturity as you say, seems to me it's more your failure than his -- you did not succeed as a parent in instilling your values. Perhaps it's time to just leave him alone... maybe he'd do better without your guidance.

Reputation Comments on this post:

You're going down way to hard on dave. Even though you apologized for this post, you should not loose control.

[DaveC426913]

In case you stop hearing from me: It appears that I am unable to post to my own thread without a three minute waiting period. I don't know how often this will happen, but it likely will curtail my further participation.

Originally Posted by Nicaine

The reference to "female" above is pure sexism, in SWIM's opinion.

Simply put, I am comfortable taking the risk that this is not the place to concentrate my energies if I were looking for external influences. You are welcome to doubt my confidence.

Originally Posted by Nicaine

particularly what one considers a "cokehead" to be (aside from a derogatory term used to insult or belittle).

I was using it facetiously/sarcastically, particularly in regards to his fellow employees. It is not a general term I use. It is certainly not a term I apply to my son.

Originally Posted by Nicaine

SWIY is still displaying fixed/repetitive patterns of thought;

You're attempting to pathologize. A strawman. I'll skip to the relevant portions of your post.

Originally Posted by Nicaine

How come your son is a "cokehead"

I have not, and do not, call him a cokehead. See above.

Originally Posted by Nicaine

if you're such a great parent?

1] Who said I was a great parent? Certainly not I.

2] Because my son has that mysterious thing known as 'free will'. Which is one of the things I've taught him to exercise. Just as parents can't take credit for everything their offspring does, neither should they take blame for everything. I'm guessing you don't have children of your own.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by DaveC426913

2] Because my son has that mysterious thing known as 'free will'. Which is one of the things I've taught him to exercise. Just as parents can't take credit for everything their offspring does, neither should they take blame for everything. I'm guessing you don't have children of your own.

True. BTW, please accept my apology for coming across rather aggressively without sufficient reasons (I'm exhausted/sleep deprived atm, although I don't mean it as an excuse). I really don't know you well enough to make so many assumptions... Internet forums are notoriously deceiving in terms of what people are like in "real life." Sorry about that...