USA - Very concerning news from AZ - passed proposition shows how drug war goes too far!

[thundercles]

It seems Arizonans have gone proposition crazy on the latest ballot, passing most of the many propositions on it. Some of the concerning ones to this forum include a complete smoking ban from any indoor facility, including bars, head shops/tobacco stores, etc. I wonder how that one will effect the very popular huukah bars in the area, or if smoking huukah is considered traditional smoking. Another proposition passed looks great: it provides special funding to schools of young children, but completly paid for by an 80 cent cigerette tax! It's about time voters here stop expecting smokers to pay for everything.

This brings me to the very most unsettling propostition passed, which barely made it with a 52/48 percent. Here is the premise, methamphetamine users are utterly demonized in Arizona, I think child molesters may be more popular at the current time. This propostion passed which goes into effect in 2 months will completly remove bail from anyone arrested on any offense deemed "methamphetamine related" This is before trial people! A police officer can arrest you, say he found a baggie of something on you that may be meth, and you are automatically denied bail. Even rapists and murderers arn't automatically denied bail.

But the propostion goes further. It also completly denies anyone on trial for a meth-related offence ANY chance of probation. Since even minor possession of methamphetamine is a felony, this guarantees prison for anyone arrested for such an offense. If you are caught with methamphetamine, you are denied bail and automatically sent to prison upon conviction, there is something fundamentally wrong with that. It saddens me to see that drugs are so demonized and hated among a population of people that they would be willing to pay lots of money to severly punish (Arizona has a huge problem with its prison system already with overcrowding and is turning to privitization to solve the overcrowding problem. Stuffing this many extra people in prison will cost LOTS of money) and also deny rights that rapists and murderers get. Legislation like that makes me truly ashamed of being an American.

Despite your standing on methamphetamine which is highly controversial even among drug users, laws that deny any non-violent offender bail and probation despite ANY circumstances is plain wrong.

[Police Officer]

You're lumping the war on drugs with the war on meth. Two totally different animals.

When we arrest people with meth, we have ways of telling what it is. Training and experience, and meth field test kits. We just dont say it "may be meth."

I would ask that you identify this new law in Arizona by name or link.

[thundercles]

Originally Posted by Police Officer

You're lumping the war on drugs with the war on meth. Two totally different animals.

When we arrest people with meth, we have ways of telling what it is. Training and experience, and meth field test kits. We just dont say it "may be meth."

I would ask that you identify this new law in Arizona by name or link.

It was proposition 301 on the Arizona ballot in the election that just happend.

And it used to be that the war on crack was different from the war on drugs. Then the war on PCP is different from the war on drugs. Now it's the war on meth is different from the war on drugs. Legislatures and media love to rotate around picking on one drug and declaring it "THE MOST DANGEROUS!!!" when really war on any drugs is destructive to society. Demonizing methamphetamine wont solve any problems, it just provides another scapegot for much more deep and complicated problems in our society. It's really easy to point fingers and not easy to fix fundamental problems.

You infer that you are an officer yourself in your post. Note I am not belittling officers at all, I have upmost respect for police officers, you just do your job, I am upset with lawmakers and a crazed and mislead public for putting you all in such unnessicary dangerous situations as front line soldiers in a lost cause.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Nice arguments and initial post.

[mick mouse]

Bullshit! That is exactly what you say. In a quote taken from a recent police report, it says " A small amount of a crystaline substance was found, which may be methamphetamine". The last four words were what caused additional search warrents to be issued and the situation to rapidly escalate, according to the judge who issued the warrents. The substance in question turned out to be epsom salts. When questioned under oath, the officer in charge admitted that by adding those words, it would be easier to access greater resources in the investigation and to convince the local magistrate to issue warrents. Anyone with more than a day of "training and experience" can tell the difference between epson salts and meth! When put under oath, another member of the "trained and experienced" cadre of those who "protect and serve" had to admit that he had no knowledge of the proper opperation of a field test kit! He had to go to the lab personel the cops brought in to get the informationl Unfortunatelly, the facts are inescapable, Police Officer. Cops lie to get what they want. They lie rather than be embarrassed. They lie because they get pissed when a suspect demands their rights. They lie for the sense of power that they get and because they can hide behing the badge. They manufacture evidence to conform the lie with the supposed crime.The time in which the police were viewed with respect has long since passed, now you are viewed as oppressors, to be avoided and fought at all costs. You no longer protect and serve, unless it is yourselves. While I do not know you personally and thus cannot attest to your character, it would seem as if you have chosen to align yourself with a group of individuals who have no character, morals, ethics, or other redeeming virtues. You are therefore guilty by association, or as my daddy used to say, you are judged by the company you keep. To put this in perspective, consider this. My two daughters (ages 10 and 11) recently had a slumber party/birthday party type of thing at my home. We had 12 of their friends who attended. The subject of police came up, and when I asked everybody what they would do if someone stole something from them and they knew who did it, what would they do? None of them would call the police! The answers ranged from stealing it back to getting a group of friends to go get it back to just shooting them and taking it back. The majority, including one girl whose father happens to be on the bomb disposal unit of the county sherrif's office, said shoot them. They don't trust the cops. These are children of respected and influential members of the community, not tweekers and crackheads! I propose to you sir, that you are fools. You have oppressed this generation and have alienated the next. Rather than see the writing on the wall, you will have to be stood up against it when the 3rd American revolution comes.

All of the above is strictly the opinion of this writer and is based on 45 years of personal interaction with society, as well as information gleaned from recollections of older family members and friends.

Originally Posted by Police Officer

You're lumping the war on drugs with the war on meth. Two totally different animals.

When we arrest people with meth, we have ways of telling what it is. Training and experience, and meth field test kits. We just dont say it "may be meth."

I would ask that you identify this new law in Arizona by name or link.

[zera]

Fortunately I don't believe that this law will be upheld on a serious legal challenge in Federal court. The eigth amendment should pretty much annihilate this one in any court that cares jack shit about the Constitution. The recent overturning of federal mandatory drug minimums should also estabilish a nice precedent for overturning that part about no probation.

At the very least I see no possible way that the no bail provision could be deemed constitutional.

[Nagognog2]

Those field-test kits are bunk. They will turn color with lead-paint and detergent. They all contain cobalt thiocyanate - regardless of what drug they are sold to identify! Same kit - different label.

[old hippie 56]

A field test in swim part of the world, is the cop doing some of the dope and turning the rest in.

[Trebor]

Man am I glad to live in a parlimentary democracy, it takes aty least a year and a half for new laws to come in place. changing is a different matter.