Brilliant People and Drugs- Are they hand in hand?

[dip]

I also believe Adolf Hitler was a genius. He was a fairly good artist but chose a path of politics instead. His drug of choice happened to be Methaphetamine, which would reduce human compassion and empathy.
What if he was to consume mushrooms instead? He could have exteneded his talents of art and philosophy.

You've heard of the mad scientist of psychotic painter? Many of whom were (looking back many decades ago) heavy drinkers

Originally Posted by TheMindIsADangerousThing

Theres a fine line between genius and insanity its said.

I highly dissagree with this, and believe the genius is insane. Which drug this individual chooses to consume would extend his/her already eccentric personality.
Further, I assume most of these geniuses are self-medicating a variety of psychiartic disorders.

[Nagognog2]

Back on topic, folks. Or start a new thread in philosophy.

Winston Churchill?

Richard M. Nixon?

[Trebor]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

Back on topic, folks. Or start a new thread in philosophy.

Winston Churchill?

Richard M. Nixon?

Churchill used Coke. It helped keep him awake at night to work.
Akewstick mentioned Ringo Starr, heres a qoute "The Beatles were so high they even let Ringo sing a few songs." Bill Hicks. Thanks Bewilderment.

[bewilderment]

Originally Posted by Trebor

Akewstick mentioned Ringo Starr, heres a qoute "The Beatles were so high they even let Ringo sing a few songs." Can't remmeber who said it.

Bill Hicks said it in some of his routines following a quote made more famous when TOOL used it in their song "Third Eye":

"You see, I think drugs have done some good things for us. I really do. And if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor. Go home tonight. Take all your albums, all your tapes and all your CDs and burn them. 'Cause you know what, the musicians that made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years … rrreal fucking high on drugs. The Beatles were so fucking high they let Ringo sing a few tunes."

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks man.

[enquirewithin]

Originally Posted by Trebor

Churchill used Coke. It helped keep him awake at night to work.
Bewilderment.

Are you sure? I can find references to him using cocaine lozenges, if that's what you meant.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/coca...ne_info1.shtml

[AntiAimer]

There's a line between a drug user and a drug addict. Just depends on the person and his/her needs.

[LsdWeedShrooms24]

Drugs make smart people smarter, and dumb people dumber. Although Opiates can manipulate these findings

[Synesthesiac]

Originally Posted by LsdWeedShrooms24

Drugs make smart people smarter, and dumb people dumber.

I like that ......though I dont think its always true.

There are wealth of brilliant people who used drugs to better human society in very major ways. Sir Francis Crick, the Nobel Prize-winning father of modern genetics, was under the influence of LSD when he first deduced thedouble-helix structure of DNA over 50 years ago. And years later at a symposium held for Albert Hoffman it was revealed, "[Hofmann] was told by Nobel-prize-winning chemist Kary Mullis that LSD had helped him develop the polymerase chain reaction that helps amplify specific DNA sequences." Mullins says he doubts he would have ever invented PCR, which was a complete revolution in understanding our DNA, if it wasn't for LSD.

And there are also good reasons to suspect that the invention of the internet and computer systems were spawned by psychedelic drug use. Talked about by one of the founding members of microsoft Bob Wallis in this video clip: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7cJwvop10R8 Starts with some comments from Nobel laureate Mullins too on his LSD experience.

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/index.html?Media/BBC-Ibogaine.html~mainFrame

There have long been rumours connecting the birth of the American computer industry with psychedelic drug use. Founding member of Microsoft, Bob Wallis, is one of the first to speak openly on the subject. BOB WALLIS:
I think the success is Silicon Valley in the early personal computer industry had a lot to do with the people using psychedelic stand. The Humber computer club was the real core of the start of the personal computer industry outside of Microsoft and many of the people there were involved in psychedelics. I think it was opening up their minds. The big quandary for software companies was getting into the marketplace, finding shelf-space, but there was a new way of doing that I thought of called shareware, and I think the concept was very unusual and I think the concept came, to some extent, from my psychedelic experience. In shareware you give away the software and then you encourage people to pay for it and even though a low percentage of people might pay for it, so many people use it that the percentage return back is normally pretty good, so that worked, that worked pretty well.
NARRATOR:
Shareware revolutionised the distribution of software and provided Bob Wallis with sufficient means to spend time pursuing his own informal psychedelic research.
BOB WALLIS:
I think psychedelics help you in general go beyond the normal way of doing things and to really open up your mind to more possibilities that maybe seem obvious in retrospect but you'd never think of if you were going along in the regular way of doing things.

So if this is anything to go by, hopefully I'm gonna be the next einstein

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good examples

[Forthesevenlakes]

Churchill was also a notorious alcoholic, wonder if that contributed or detracted from his productivity, but either way, he was a genius. One of the few people to see the danger the Nazis posed long before the second world war started.

Joseph McCarthy was reputed to be addicted to morphine, up to and including the time of the Red Scare and the HUAC hearings. Now, he's certainly a good candidate for the moniker of Evil Dood, but is he a genius as well? I dont know..I want to hear other's thoughts on this. He may have had a certain genius ability to work a crowd, self-promote, and create an air of hysteria...a bit like Hitler could, really.

[Akewstick]

They even let ringo WRITE a few songs, ringo was an ace singer and a brilliant drummer, I loved him in the magical mystery tour and the sideburns are unparralelled. I wouldn't call him brilliant, he has the personality of a vegetable.

But really, I don't think anyone is objectively brilliant, I think we're all equally brilliant, especially me.

Reputation Comments on this post:

'we're all brilliant' i couldn't agree more

[Demonslayer]

I guess that if you use drugs to boost your confidence, make up for a lack in social skills or to numb some psychological trauma, that is exactly what you get and that is why you get hooked on drugs. If drugs are used as a crouch you will soon depend on them to feel "normal".

The level of inspiration drugs have on your genious or creativity depends on your intelligens/education/creativity. Hallucinogens and cannabis can give you a new perspective on a problem or even allow you to see new cross-disiplinary solutions to problems you havn't even thought about.

I am a amateur inventor with a broad background in mechanics (firearms, aerospace, engines), physics and chemistry and have come up with several ideas during trips and ganja-evenings that are amazingly inovative. But I lack the entrepreneur drive to realize these ideas or get them patented. My latest project is a internal-combustion engine with only three moving parts that runs on hydrogen. It is only useful for very small vehicles, but it can be built to weigh under 10 grams with a cylinder volume in the microliter range which would be very useful in miniture RC-aircraft. I also have a submachine gun design which can be built with hand tools and welding equipment in only a few days using hardware store materials. The list is long but right now I am studying chemical engineering and want to get my bachelor degree before developing these ideas into something I can make money from. I only smoke once a week and trip 4-5 times a year but such brilliant ideas come almost every time. I used to smoke more often but that seemed to just make me less creative, so I guess there is a middle path that optimizes such experiences.

On the other side I have often experienced remote veiwing and precognition while tripping. It used to freak me out to hear about things on the news that I had seen less than a week before during a trip. (Now it only freaks out my girlfriend.) I'm getting used to it, but don't now what to do with this information, it's often not specific enough to make any certain predictions, but the facts match the incident extremely well when veiwed in retrospect.

What inspiration you are able to get from drugs depends on your interests and educational level. People who are already gifted in some area will get more from this kind of inspiration than someone who is not educated or gifted.

[psyche]

I wouldn't say that drugs and brilliant people go hand in hand, in the case of psychedelics the answer would be propably more so. Obviously the typical forum member is more interested in science and philosophy than your regular meth-junkie on the streets. The motives for drug use are quite a different, it's not just seeking the next rush of euphoria but propably self-examination, healing, searching for the nature of reality, something more intellectual involving more than the euphoria from the drugs use. Or just for fun. But people here are interested in knowledge or sharing experiences, getting more out of drugs. I'm not sure to what degree that has effect on the friends they gather, but I think it will shape their typical friend to be more intellectual.

My best friends are quite intelligent drug users, but I know a lot of people using them just to get wasted and they usually are much more narrow-minded and not so bright. I don't think there's a connection because people are driven to drug use by so varying range of motivations, the other extreme being to just get wasted or to escape reality, and the other to pursue the meaning of life or do something other intellectual process.

[TheMindIsADangerousThing]

Swim thinks this is going really well, thanks to everyone who responded and do continue.

[Demonslayer]

As I think someone said in this post, or maybe another (can't be bothered to check since SWIM is SO stoned right now), the people on this website are not a typical cross-section of the drug using community. People who discuss drugs on-line in such discussion boards as this have a more than average interest in drugs and therefor more knowledge about drugs and what they can do besides making you shit-faced.
I have met many recreational drug users and most of them don't give a shit about how psilocybin binds to 5HTa receptors in the frontal lobes replacing the normal serotonin and affecting the same parts of the personality that serotonin does. Nor do they care about the possible medical uses of THC as a pain reliever for patients undergoing kemo-therapy or AIDS treatment. And they couldn't give a rats ass about tapping into the collective consiousness through psychedelics. Some think that salvia and DMT are just fucking with your brain and that the visions seen on such drugs don't have any more significance than a typical alcohol binge. They take the same veiw as the anti-drug people of this world (or the blue pill people as they would say within The Matrix), that drugs just mess with your mind. Drugs deserve much more respect than that, they are powerful tools that can, if you use them right, be they key to other levels of consiousness. I feel it almost disresepectful to use them only to have a awesome time.
Now how can people that have no curiosity as to how drugs work on a chemical and spiritual level ever get any inspiration from using them?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Excellent points

[dip]

Ken Kesey's One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

Parts of this novel were written while he was under the influence of LSD and peyote.

Cuckoo’s Nest conveys Kesey’s interest in altered consciousness, particularly in the voice of the narrator, Chief Bromden. The paranoid sections of the novel where Chief discusses his belief that the hospital where he stays is actually an emasculating factory for a larger Combine that represses individuality were largely written while Kesey was under the influence of mind-altering substances.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by psyche

I wouldn't say that drugs and brilliant people go hand in hand, in the case of psychedelics the answer would be propably more so.

*Cough*BS*cough*...

SWIM is/has been a member of quite a large number of forums over the years, and he doesn't find the general IQ here to be anything particularly unusual... neither higher nor lower than most other places he hangs around online. It's tough to judge an "average IQ" level of a forum though, if there even is such a thing.

P.S. since psychedelics were mentioned, SWIM *has* noticed a tendency toward egotism and 'holier-than-thou' attitudes among some users.

Reputation Comments on this post:

I'm sick of these 'holier-than-thou' posts

[Trebor]

Yes, I do believe it was Cocaine Lozenges as oppossed to the fine powder that we know today.

[Toma]

In SWIM's experience there is a distinction between brilliant and average people when it comes to drugs.

Normal people usually do drugs in the same way they drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes, for social purposes, to feel good, or just to get plain fucked up. They see drugs just as novel ways to party, and when it comes to psychedelics they look at the experience like some joyride in a park they bought a ticket for.

Intelligent people on the other hand, the kind who like to think for thinking's sake and look upon the world with searching eyes, usually have a deep-seated fascination with drugs, whom they see as a gateway to new worlds and experiences. They are the ones most likely to use psychedelics actively, to mix their own soul into the experience, and also to come out the other side enriched and bring new things with them, whether they be mechanical inventions or art. They are also the ones who build the mystique around these substances and by insufflating their own consciousness in them elevate them from drugs to sacraments. They were the shamans who helped shape the evolution of human culture and religion, the artists who used drugs for inspiration and self-sculpture and the people who use drugs as a means of extending the reach of their consciousness rather than as a purpose in themselves.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Well put.

[enquirewithin]

Some 'brilliant' people do use drugs. Some very ignorant people also use them. There is no direct correlation between being brilliant in some way and taking drugs.

You can cite examples of outstanding people, for example, Francis Crick or Sigmund Frued who took drugs and others who are not interested in them, say, Noam Chomsky or Stephen Hawking.

As for Shamans, some are true visionaries, many are cons.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Best answer in the thread.

[psyche]

My mistake. What I meant to say was that if use of some class of drugs would correlate with intelligense, that would propably be psychedelics. I don't think they enhance intelligence generally, but I believe they can have effect on creativity that can make people sometimes reach answers when they wouldn't without. I've certainly noticed I had(and still have a bit) a tendency to feel somehow superior because of my use of psychedelics.

[pankreeas]

Wow swim missed the ship on this post.. But he very strongly believes drugs mixed with the right brain chemistry is a recipe for amazement. Look at it like this.. you can give someone a lemon, they make lemonaid... give someone else a lemon, they'll make a lemonaid stand and attempt to make money. And then theres invariably that individual who simply takes the remains from the 2 already squeezed lemons in the garbage, and gets twice as much juice out of it as the first 2 did...

[humdroid]

SWIM agrees here too.

SWIM used their first drug at age thirty, a spliff.
Prior to this, SWIM was of the "All drugs are bad" attitude.
SWIM was blind so couldnt see the benefits of respectful drug use.

SWIM is anxious not to promote drugs as the only means of life improvement, but to be honest, SWIM dosent know where they would be today, had they not had the profound realisations they had whilst on certain psychedelic/empathogenic drugs.
SWIM had a sense there was something lacking, but could not express themselves and gave off the impression of being a dummy.

SWIM is no dummy deep down, and certain mind-expanders have been the only thing that have helped them make contact with this fact.

SWIM dosen't think this about non-mind-expanding drugs, such as tranx, alcohol and speed etc etc

[Nagognog2]

Brilliant people might try drugs. Intelligent people aspire to being brilliant and might try drugs. Average people want both people outlawed and put to death.

Yawn...How Amerika.

[TheFonz]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

Brilliant people might try drugs. Intelligent people aspire to being brilliant and might try drugs. Average people want both people outlawed and put to death.

Yawn...How Amerika.

goes in hand with America's "win at any cost" attitude......I've had the privilege of personally knowing successful CEOs, Athletes, SGA presidents of some major universities, and doctors and there is only one that hasn't used substances to get ahead....

The difference is, they use with a purpose or goal in mind rather than just escaping or partying. The difference between a CEO who uses METH and "Spider Mike" is a question for the philosophers, have fun with that one!


As for now, check this website out http://www.unc.edu/~novick/speed/

[keev]

drugs expand your mind; there is no doubt that taking a drug is a(n) experience which brings forth to you more knowledge. I'm not saying every drug out there expands your mind: Acid,shrooms, and etc; to me, are the keys to expanding your mind. My opinion