Opinions - American drug police is CRAZY

[grecian]

Originally Posted by Police Officer

why don’t you give a specific example that I can research

Why dont you go onto youtube and search for police brutality, there are plenty of specific examples there, sure some are fakes but you should be able to tell which.

A snippet of of one Amnesty International Report into Police Brutality in the USA

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index...pen&of=ENG-USA

* Kansas City: In November 1998 a 13-year old black child, Timothy L. Wilson, driving a friend’s pick-up truck, was shot dead after a brief chase. Six officers had pursued the truck for several minutes after seeing Timothy driving erratically. All six surrounded the truck when it came to a halt in mud. Four white officers opened fire after, they said, he tried to reverse then drove towards them, a version disputed by an attorney for the Wilson family. The officers were cleared of criminal wrongdoing by a local grand jury. A civil lawsuit is pending.

* California: In August 1999, in an early morning narcotics raid, a SWAT team(8) from the El Monte police department burst into the home of a Mexican immigrant family and shot dead an unarmed elderly man, Mario Paz, in his bedroom. He was reportedly shot twice in the back. No drugs were found in the raid and a different name to that of the residents was on the search warrant. Many other questionable police shootings have been reported in California, several of which are cited below.

* Connecticut: In April 1999, a 14-year old unarmed African American Aquan Salmon, a suspect in an attempted street robbery, was fatally shot in the back by a Hartford police officer during a foot chase. The officer was cleared of criminal wrongdoing but a separate investigation by the state attorney was pending at the beginning of September 1999.

* Chicago: In June 1999, LaTanya Haggerty, a 19-year-old passenger in a car pulled over by Chicago police after a short chase, was shot dead when officers mistook the cell-phone in her hand for a gun. In September 1999, the Chicago Police Board (a police adjudicatory body) opened a hearing to decide on a recommendation by the police chief that the officers should be dismissed from the force. A day after the Haggerty shooting, Chicago police officers shot dead Robert Russ, a former college football player, after he refused to get out of his car after a pursuit. He was shot when an officer smashed the car window and pointed his gun directly into the car. The case was still under investigation at the time of writing. Both Haggerty and Russ were black.

* New York City: In May 1999 unarmed 16-year old Dante Johnson (black) was shot and critically injured after running away from three police officers who had stopped to question him and a friend while they were standing in the street. The officers were from the same street crime unit which had shot and killed Amadou Diallo in February 1999 (see above). Johnson’s case was under investigation by the Bronx District Attorney at the time of writing.

* New Jersey: In June 1999 Stanton Crew, an unarmed African American, was shot dead in New Jersey, after he tried to manoeuvre his car out of the way of two police cars which had boxed him in after a car chase. The officers fired 27 shots at his vehicle, as he tried to drive back and forth. A female passenger in the car suffered police gunshot wounds to her leg. The case (which remained under investigation in September 1999) is the latest in a series of questionable police shootings of unarmed motorists in New Jersey.

* Philadelphia: In October 1998, 19-year-old Donta Dawson, an unarmed African American youth, was shot dead by a police officer who approached him after seeing him sitting in a stationary car with the engine running. The officer opened fire, shooting Dawson in the eye, after he said Dawson leaned forward and raised his arm. The officer was twice charged with manslaughter (voluntary and involuntary) but city judges dismissed the charges each time. He was fired from the force but is currently seeking to get his job back through arbitration. In July 1999 the city agreed to pay Donta’s family $712,500 in settlement of a civil action.

* Texas: In July 1998 Pedro Oregon, an unarmed Mexican national, was fatally shot by six Houston police officers during a drugs raid on his home. He reportedly died in his bedroom with six gunshot wounds to the back, two to the head and another in his hand. Only one officer was indicted, on a criminal trespass charge. However, after an outcry from the Hispanic community, a police internal inquiry found the officers guilty of "egregious misconduct" and they were fired

Reputation Comments on this post:

Nice input.

[WrtngCocaineTutorial]

Originally Posted by grecian

A snippet of of one Amnesty International Report into Police Brutality in the USA

it's tragic that amnesty has to check up on the police, which are supposed to be the protectors, in such a highly civilized country.

[Hlucn8]

You know what!? Here is the bitch of it. If I decide to get in my car and drive 75 mph in a 55, then get pulled over and get a ticket, who am I to complain? I knew the rules, and I made a conscious decision to brake them. All the complaining in the world does not change the fact that when I got my license, I signed a contract that stated that i understood and would obey all laws regarding the privilege to drive in that state. So, How can I complain when I get caught? Ah! But here is where things get a little slippery. You see, swim is from a town where he knows there is only one officer on duty at a time. The officers in this town can only monitor one small stretch of highway at a time, and usually they are most concerned with a stretch where they know that someone who decides to break the law would be most dangerous to the greatest amount of people. So, in order to get his "fix" for speed, he obeys the law where it matters most, (and where he knows those concerned in positions of authority will be), and picks a nice long stretch of paved rural road that is seldom traveled, pumps his Lexus up to 135 mph for a while, then goes back to normal life, watching himself when he knows he is being watched.
Its sort of like turn signals. The point of a turn signal is to warn other drivers of your intention to turn. If its midnight, your tuning into your own driveway, and you can plainly see that there are no other drivers within line of sight, is it wrong not to use your turn signal? Well, yes, by the letter of the law. The spirit of the law,however, has not been broken. What swim is getting at is, don't make a menace of yourself; and if you happen to get caught doing something wrong, and you knew it was wrong regardless of whether or not you agreed with current policy, can you really complain?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Nice post. Nicely articulated.

[Hlucn8]

In swims most recent post, swiy must read between the lines to understand swims feeling on current U.S. drug policy. Keeping a low profile is the name of the game if swiy does not want to get shot, just as in war. Don't resist when it is not within your means, and fight when it is appropriate, (I.E. get involved, vote, and for goodness sake, make sure you wear your Kevlar!). Basicly, do not make a target of swiy self.

[Riconoen {UGC}]

Bull fucking shit, why is it in states with the most liberal gun control laws have the lowest murder rates cocaine?

[Hlucn8]

So, is hunting just not allowed in the UK? If it is, how does one acomplish this without a firearm? Blow-guns and sling shots?
So, does swinobody want to comment on swimy post? (#44) swIm figured swIm would catch all kinds of flack for that one!

[ramjet]

Police Officer, I'm interested in your take on the drugs issue, seeing as you are the only one here who is possibly against drug use.

Do you think drugs should be illegal? If so why?

My argument has always been that while certain offences such as theft and robbery will inevitably lead to the harm of others, drug use does not necessarily harm others. This breaks the all important causal connection. Drug ABUSE and drug USE are two completely different things as far as I am concerned and it is possible to use most drugs in moderation. At the end of the day, alcohol is legal, despite the fact that the government spends millions on repairing the damage caused by leery drunk people out binging over the weekend and despite the fact that alcohol can be physically addictive and destroys lives. It is still legal partly because the government appreciates that it would be wrong and disproportionate to punish those who are able to use alcohol sensibly and it is more important to encourage people to make the choice to use alcohol sensibly and excercise self-control.

There is also the fact that organised crime makes most of its money from the sale of illegal drugs and if legitimised and heavily regulated you would be removing this source of income. With regulation you are removing the risk of death on account of unknown contents and purity. It is also plausible that legalisation would result in a substanitally reduced reduced price, as high prices reflect in the main the risk associated with sale and the difficulty of importing/making/growing the product undetected. Opium, for example, is as cheap to make as asprin. This, in turn, would reduce the likelihood of users turning to crime to fund their habit. Even if the use of heroin doubled, would you really care if they were properly housed and weren't stealing your computer or DVD player?

Then you have the tax revenue that could be raised from the sale of drugs, the freeing up of police resources and the redirection of tax revenue that is currently being spent on tackling drugs.

As for the consequences of drug abuse to the abuser and his family: I would argue firstly that many perfectly legal courses of action can potentially destroy family relations and cause emotional upset. Secondly, partly as a result of the first point, I believe that in this instance it is down to individual responsibility combined with the provision of good quality, unbiased support, information and education.

I would be very interested in hearing the other side to the argument. It's good to have a police officer on the forum to offer a different perspective.

[izzy31]

police are getting caught on film using excessive force alot now, and always try to justify it. you can clearly hear pleads to stop and begging for mercy and they're still trying to convince everyone that they were dangerous and needed to be beat.

[grecian]

I saw this and i thought of this thread, if ever there was an example of a death caused half by relaxed gun laws and half by incompetent police work this seems to be it:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25395

Originally Posted by Hlucn8

So, is hunting just not allowed in the UK? If it is, how does one acomplish this without a firearm? Blow-guns and sling shots?

Firearms are permitted in the UK; under very strict conditions a certificate for ownership will be given but only after a thorough police investigation.

Police officers very rarely carry guns here and when they have they have often got it wrong (e.g. Jean Charles de Menezes).

Reputation Comments on this post:

you dont know what youre talking about

[Police Officer]

Originally Posted by grecian

I saw this and i thought of this thread, if ever there was an example of a death caused half by relaxed gun laws and half by incompetent police work this seems to be it:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25395

Yeah, that poor poor lady. Before you post something and start commenting on it you should find out the full story. Did you know that she shot 2 cops? Did you know that she shot first? Did you know that they knocked, announced Police, waited 10 seconds, and then went in? No, you didnt. The only thing I find questionable is why they didnt put her down faster.

Everyone is complaining about how the Police are so so brutal. Everyone is reading what someone says is from an amnesty international website and automatically assuming it to be the whole factual truth. That is sad. AI is 99% of the time creative writing. Do you think that Police dont get indicted on bad shoots? Think again. They do.

Yep, the Police are the root of all evil until you mother becomes a junkie, your sister gets hit by a drunk driver, and your father is stabbed while working at the local gas station. The easy and teenage thing to do is bash the Cops.

Now I got a question. What do yall do for a living?

[El Calico Loco]

Originally Posted by Police Officer

Yeah, that poor poor lady. Before you post something and start commenting on it you should find out the full story. Did you know that she shot 2 cops? Did you know that she shot first? Did you know that they knocked, announced Police, waited 10 seconds, and then went in? No, you didnt. The only thing I find questionable is why they didnt put her down faster.

I don't think the police at the scene can be blamed too harshly - as you said, they were being shot at. The problem is, they should not have been there in the first place. Someone gave them bad information - maybe a lazy detective, maybe a perp trying desperately to give the cops something to lessen his own troubles, maybe an informant who gets paid to snitch out his dealer's competitors and chose a random address for some extra crack money.

The War on Unpopular Drugs is the direct cause of tragedies such as these.

My uncle is a cop. I've chatted with a number of police officers on message forums over the years. Most of them seemed like good guys, but very defensive. Almost to a man. I know you guys get pissed on every day by perps, politicians, and the media; I'm sure that makes you want to give your fellow officers the benefit of the doubt. But face it - cops are human beings. Even good ones can make mistakes, and some are just sadistic bastards - bullies with a badge. They're the ones who make your job (more) difficult by turning the public against you.

Them, and the ignorant politicians who make harmful, unenforceable laws to make themselves look good.

And my mother is already a junkie, thank you very much. All the laws in existence didn't stop it from happening. All the propaganda and prisons did nothing to stop her from becoming an addict, nor did they save her son from the consequences. It's a long story, but...had drugs been legal, he likely wouldn't have been kidnapped and abused at the age of four. The "War" causes more problems than drugs themselves ever could - especially for the police.


ECL

[grecian]

Originally Posted by Police Officer

Yeah, that poor poor lady. Before you post something and start commenting on it you should find out the full story. Did you know that she shot 2 cops? Did you know that she shot first? Did you know that they knocked, announced Police, waited 10 seconds, and then went in? No, you didnt. The only thing I find questionable is why they didnt put her down faster.

Everyone is complaining about how the Police are so so brutal. Everyone is reading what someone says is from an amnesty international website and automatically assuming it to be the whole factual truth. That is sad. AI is 99% of the time creative writing. Do you think that Police dont get indicted on bad shoots? Think again. They do.

Yep, the Police are the root of all evil until you mother becomes a junkie, your sister gets hit by a drunk driver, and your father is stabbed while working at the local gas station. The easy and teenage thing to do is bash the Cops.

Now I got a question. What do yall do for a living?

For a start my post never sympathised with the old woman, my point was that this highlights the inadequacies of your gun laws (if the woman didnt have a gun she wouldn't have shot the police) and the inadequacies of police work (could they not have apprehended this woman for whatever she may or may not have done in a more controlled way, she is 92 FFS). As for all the points you make about who shot first etc. you are quite probably correct but you must admit if the officers in question had messed up they would have been unlikely to say so in their report.

And you think we should believe you more than amnesty international? 99% creative writing is it, where on earth did you pluck that figure from?

Reread my post on amnesty international, it clearly states in the cases I highlighted that some sort of attempts to press charges against the police were made, so i am aware of that.

By the way on the now numerous occasions I have gone to the police looking for help I have been appalled by there lack of compassion, understanding or willingness to assist someone genuinely in need of help. One police force (devon and cornwall for anyone who cares) were happy to use 5 policeman and a riot van to apprehend SWIM when he was found with poppers (legal here BTW) in a club, but refused to even take a statement when Swim and a friend were seriously assaulted right under a CCTV camera. Don'g get me wrong I know plenty of police do plenty of good work but I am also sure I am not alone in having almost exclusively bad personal experience with them. I would be a fool to deny that this has helped shape my opinion of them.

And finally i am a student studying politics and philosophy although i fail to see what difference that makes.

[bewilderment]

Originally Posted by Police Officer

Yep, the Police are the root of all evil until you mother becomes a junkie, your sister gets hit by a drunk driver, and your father is stabbed while working at the local gas station. The easy and teenage thing to do is bash the Cops.

Swim's father is a junkie (his life is made worse by police, not better), she had a close friend that was killed by drunk driver, and her spouse was once stabbed by a relative. The police are still not swim's friends because it is their job to enforce rules that run counter to swim's principles. It's really quite sad because the police system could be a pretty great thing if it weren't for all of the insane laws out there.