Dopamine

[Nicaine]

If SWIY uses stimulants like amphetamines or cocaine, they're interested in dopamine... whether they know it or not. For those who know (or would like to), here are some links for your researching pleasure:

Background:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_receptor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_transporter

http://lansbury.bwh.harvard.edu/dopamine.htm

Articles:

https://www1.wfubmc.edu/News/NewsARt...ArticleID=1887

http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/vanderb...r_feature4.htm

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/exploratio...rews_galli.pdf

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/mindand...p?artID=999109

http://www.biopsychiatry.com/dopdef.htm

http://www.caringmedical.com/media/a...article_id=520

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010804/msgs/74037.html

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...ticlekey=76823

http://www.lcmedia.com/mind330.htm

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/...ull/162/9/1755

http://tinyurl.com/yx8nc4

http://www.apa.org/monitor/mar05/dopamine.html

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...30/ai_19751305

http://www.nature.com/bjp/journal/v1.../0702373a.html

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/012260599v1.pdf

http://www.neuropsychiatryreviews.co..._dopamine.html

http://www.neuropsychiatryreviews.co...addiction.html

http://www.onlinedatingmagazine.com/...prolactin.html

http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_in_the_brain

http://money.cnn.com/2002/09/16/pf/i...agenda_brain5/

Enjoy...

Reputation Comments on this post:

	thanks, helpful and educational links!
	Good post Nicaine

[quili]

Thanks. Some good reads. Provided swim with something fun and interesting to do for a couple nights. Swim loves reading/researching this kind of stuff.

[Forthesevenlakes]

An interesting thing that SWIM learned today: although we think of stimulants and dopamine as being involved in pleasure and the reward centers of the brain, such as the nucleus accumbens, dopamine also has a role in attention, possibly through the mesolimbic pathway. Traditional ADD drugs like adderall (amphetamine) inhibit dopamine reuptake in many pathways, so it can increase attention and feel rewarding.

Modafinil, on the other hand, causes a release of dopamine in SOME pathways such as the mesolimbic pathway, but NOT the nucleus accumbens. The result? Enhanced attention with no feeling of reward! Interestingly, Modafinil also seems to increase the learning involved in some tasks, similar to low doses of cocaine. This is thought to be a product of the increased attention to stimuli. However, in mice studies, modafinil only improved performance in some maze tasks, and not others. Could it be that there are multiple attention pathways involving dopamine? SWIM was trying to look up more information on this, but has no access to PubMed at the moment.

[jesusfreak666er]

swim is gonna have to wait for his next adderall binge to read those but great contribution

[peterarlei]

Nicaine, now thats what swim's talkin about here, swim joined this site to educate and be educated thanks for the links some of them make good reading. Seems i've come to the right forum. Thanks

[Drakzon]

I am sure I will enjoy reading many of those links tonight. I would just like to point out soemthing. SWIM had taken modafinil (provigil) and he said that taking at least 1200mg made him feel euphoric swim said it wasn't as good as speed or ritalin, but still pretty damn good

[f12button]

I don't know if this is mentioned in the articles, but an extremely high amount of dopamine will cause schizophrenic symptoms, and a low amount of dopamine will cause Parkinsonian symptoms (of Parkinson's disease).

So basically if you're geeked and paranoid as all hell, there you go P

[~lostgurl~]

Originally Posted by f12button

I don't know if this is mentioned in the articles, but an extremely high amount of dopamine will cause schizophrenic symptoms, and a low amount of dopamine will cause Parkinsonian symptoms (of Parkinson's disease).

So in theory, someone coming off methamphetamine would have lower than usual dopamine levels which could cause symptoms similar to parkinsons like Restless Legs Syndrome (RLS) which is what happened to SWIM. A question SWIM has is how long does it take for dopamine levels to return to normal and would taking a drug like bupropion speed up this process?

[Zaprenz]

Originally Posted by ~lostgurl~

So in theory, someone coming off methamphetamine would have lower than usual dopamine levels which could cause symptoms similar to parkinsons like Restless Legs Syndrome (RLS) which is what happened to SWIM. A question SWIM has is how long does it take for dopamine levels to return to normal and would taking a drug like bupropion speed up this process?

SWIM would say it's a stronger link than just a theory, repeated use of high dose methamphetamine is highly likely to cause damage.

Add to that the fact that people using regular methamphetamine will loose large amounts of sleep & not eat properly (nutrients, antioxidants to prevent further oxidative damage) gives good reasoning why people should be extremely cautious with any use.

Diamorphine/Heroin [in pure form, given in a clinical setting] will do minimal damage to organs and is considered relatively non-toxic to the human body [in normal doses].

Methamphetamine [in pure form, given in a clinical setting] will still most likely cause damage which can take more than just the initial withdrawal period to overcome. Figures are thrown around here there and everywhere but anecdotal reports have sometimes required years to return to any kind of normal baseline [for depression, anxiety etc]

Both drugs can be highly addictive and when obtained from illicit sources add many more complications and dangers but out of the two SWIM would consider methamphetamine to be quite nasty in terms of long term physical damage.

Remember it was later found that methamphetamine had been used in ricaurte's famous "One dose of MDMA will cause parkinson's study". Now with good reason any scientific findings from such a completely unscientific study should be ignored but the link between methamphetamine and parkinson type side effects is fairly strong.

Bupropion - It's dopamine/Noradrenaline/5-HT re-uptake inhibitor - may help with symptoms of methamphetamine withdrawal (depression, anxiety etc) although it's not going to undo any serious neuronal damage which is sometimes the main worry in methamphetamine withdrawal. [or post high dose meth use]

Lot's of fruit, vegetables, good diet & excersize which one would naturally not get a lot of when using high doses of methamphetamine would certainly not hurt and possibly help any long term recovery.

Reputation Comments on this post:

great answer, thanks for the info/advice

[Boca Bitch]

To the OP: I think this is an absolutely amazing, informative post.

But, I think the neurotransmitter dopamine is being a bit over-glorified here. It most certainly is the main neurotransmitter triggered by amphetamines, methylphenidate, and cocaine, but definitely not the only one.

They also all release a substantial amount of serotonin and norepinephrine. These neurotransmitters shouldn't be taken for granted as their presence in relation to one another creates the distinctive "high" of each drug.

All three of these neurotransmitters are referred to collectively as monoamine neurotransmitters. (there are more than just three of this type, but they're relatively unimportant to mention when discussing this class of psychoactive drugs) They're all excitatory and function somewhat similarly within the brain, however they play distinctive rolls.

Here's a link, mostly in plain English for serotonin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin

And here's one for norepinephrine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norepinephrine

Originally Posted by Drakzon

I am sure I will enjoy reading many of those links tonight. I would just like to point out soemthing. SWIM had taken modafinil (provigil) and he said that taking at least 1200mg made him feel euphoric swim said it wasn't as good as speed or ritalin, but still pretty damn good

Yeah... that's a no no.

Modafinil works similarly to amphetamines (mainly by triggering dopamine and norepinephrine) except it also greatly increases levels of the neurotransmitter histamine. This makes modafinil a particularly dangerous drug to use recreationally. Not that any drug is safe (let alone for recreational use), but high levels of histamines can result in death.

Histamine is a monoamine neurotransmitter like the others ones mentioned. Its primary purpose is triggering allergic reactions... think Benedryl Anti-Histamine bug bite spray. An excessively high amount of this neurotransmitter could definitely result in death from severe allergic reactions. I'm surprised SWIY enjoyed it... it should have been extremely uncomfortable. But I'm glad SWIY is ok, just tell him not to repeat that... ever.

[psychoshaman]

Originally Posted by ~lostgurl~

So in theory, someone coming off methamphetamine would have lower than usual dopamine levels which could cause symptoms similar to parkinsons like Restless Legs Syndrome (RLS) which is what happened to SWIM. A question SWIM has is how long does it take for dopamine levels to return to normal and would taking a drug like bupropion speed up this process?

I read that methcathinone is a bad candidate for the parkinson thing... my pet iguana has had the Restless Leg Syndrome from methcatinone...

Reputation Comments on this post:

Interesting

[~lostgurl~]

Originally Posted by psychoshaman

I read that methcathinone is a bad candidate for the parkinson thing... my pet iguana has had the Restless Leg Syndrome from methcatinone...

How long did it last?

[psychoshaman]

Originally Posted by ~lostgurl~

How long did it last?

quite some time my pet igauana reckons a good 12 hours of vitus dance (i think that's what they called it in the old days can't remember) only seemed to happen on cat though

[onzero]

Originally Posted by Forthesevenlakes

Modafinil, on the other hand, causes a release of dopamine in SOME pathways such as the mesolimbic pathway, but NOT the nucleus accumbens. The result? Enhanced attention with no feeling of reward! .

modafinil does increase DA release from the NAcc.

it does cause euphoria.

it's mild, but it's there. swim knows someone who definitely got addicted to the stuff... swim's also taken it and found it to be more euphoric than methylphenidate.

[Hollow Hippie]

Originally Posted by onzero

modafinil does increase DA release from the NAcc.

it does cause euphoria.

it's mild, but it's there. swim knows someone who definitely got addicted to the stuff... swim's also taken it and found it to be more euphoric than methylphenidate.

SWIM smells placebo at work.

[onzero]

Originally Posted by Hollow Hippie

SWIM smells placebo at work.

nope. does caffeine provide euphoria? yep. does modafinil, yep. do some research. don't buy what the drug co's are selling, almost all psychoactive drugs are addicting in some way... and generally all of them increase transmission of DA from the NAcc to the VTA, whether direct (a la stimulants) or indirect (a la opiates, benzos etc)

they like to use terms like "eugeroics" and "wakefullness promoting agents" but at the end of the day, while they may have a pharmacological action that makes them "less" addictive, they still share the same basic properties on some scale.

it's ignorant to think that any CNS stimulant wouldn't provide at least a small amount of euphoria.

and i was serious about my friend who got addicted to the stuff, he used to be a speed guy, then his psychiatrist prescribed him modafinil for "depression" and what do you know his script ran out after about 10 days, that's an expensive habit right there.

after a 2 week abstinence he said a double dose was better than coke.

onzero added 11 Minutes and 15 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by Boca Bitch

Yeah... that's a no no.

Modafinil works similarly to amphetamines (mainly by triggering dopamine and norepinephrine) except it also greatly increases levels of the neurotransmitter histamine. This makes modafinil a particularly dangerous drug to use recreationally. Not that any drug is safe (let alone for recreational use), but high levels of histamines can result in death.

Histamine is a monoamine neurotransmitter like the others ones mentioned. Its primary purpose is triggering allergic reactions... think Benedryl Anti-Histamine bug bite spray. An excessively high amount of this neurotransmitter could definitely result in death from severe allergic reactions. I'm surprised SWIY enjoyed it... it should have been extremely uncomfortable. But I'm glad SWIY is ok, just tell him not to repeat that... ever.

well histamine is a major neurotransmitter involved in a lot of brain functions, as are dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine.

it is not as simple as "increases in histamine mimic an allergic reaction" or "dopamine and norepinephrine speed you up"

there's a lot of pseudoscience that comes out when people start talking about neurotransmitters.


if the histaminergic action of the drug is localized to the hypothalamus, no type of allergic reaction would occur, there are also multiple types of histamine receptors throughout the body and allergic reactions are just ONE function of histamine & its receptor sites. you cannot make broad conclusions on such limited information, to say that a drug with histaminergic action localized to the hypothalamus would cause a widespread allergic reaction is making far too many assumptions.

acetylcholine is involved in memory formation in the hippocampus. acetylcholine is also the primary neurotransmitter that sends impulses from motor neurons to recruit skeletal muscle activity. it also has about 10000000 other functions.

the important thing is to understand the context of the action of the drug, some drugs have very limited types of receptors they can interact with (such as opiates) while amphetamines have a much broader range. it also matters what brain regions each of these activated pathways are attached to.

in short, it's wise to do some research before making assumptions about the actions of a drug.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good point

[hamsterdam]

Originally Posted by onzero

nope. does caffeine provide euphoria? yep. does modafinil, yep. do some research. don't buy what the drug co's are selling, almost all psychoactive drugs are addicting in some way... and generally all of them increase transmission of DA from the NAcc to the VTA, whether direct (a la stimulants) or indirect (a la opiates, benzos etc)

Very good point there..

Remember when they said oxycontin was less addicting because it's a "long acting" tablet?

What's one of the most sought after pills on the street nowadays?

How many people are ambien addicts now? What happened to those being less addictive then benzos?

Just wait till someone finds some OTC or easily accessible potentiator that makes modafinil give an incredible euphoria. Any drug that does something to make you "like" taking it can and will be abused.

[Hollow Hippie]

Originally Posted by hamsterdam

Very good point there..

Remember when they said oxycontin was less addicting because it's a "long acting" tablet?

What's one of the most sought after pills on the street nowadays?

How many people are ambien addicts now? What happened to those being less addictive then benzos?

Just wait till someone finds some OTC or easily accessible potentiator that makes modafinil give an incredible euphoria. Any drug that does something to make you "like" taking it can and will be abused.

The problem is you will get a huge histamine release too, possibly killing you.

[hamsterdam]

Originally Posted by Hollow Hippie

The problem is you will get a huge histamine release too, possibly killing you.

Well.. the possibility of self harm doesn't stop a lot of people who are desperately chasing a high.

Just look at the people who injected the temazepam jellies and lost limbs as a result.

Some people would shoot cyanide if they thought it'd give them a quick high before it killed them.

[Hollow Hippie]

Originally Posted by hamsterdam

Well.. the possibility of self harm doesn't stop a lot of people who are desperately chasing a high.

Just look at the people who injected the temazepam jellies and lost limbs as a result.

Some people would shoot cyanide if they thought it'd give them a quick high before it killed them.

Yes swim is familiar with that, swim just thinks modafinil is a unique drug and swiy should not attempt to abuse it because that will just make it harder to get.