How to deal with controlling parents

[~lostgurl~]

SWIM's mom has pretty much given SWIM an ultimatum, she can have a relationship with her mom or a relationship with drugs. Not both.

Now SWIM is a grown woman, she owns a house and a car, pays her mortgage and bills (though sometimes struggles to) and loves to get high on meth or ghb as often as she can afford too.

SWIM's mom would like her to go to rehab. SWIM does not want to go to rehab because as much as she hates being an addict, she loves getting high and does not see any joy in a future without drugs. Also SWIM does not believe in the NA/AA cult, which is pretty much what all rehab centres use to base their program on.

SWIM feels that her mom is being unfair to make her choose between her and drugs, and that she should be able to make her own choices in life, even if they are the wrong one. SWIM knows her mom loves her very much and just wants to help her, and SWIM hates hurting her mom, letting her down, because she doesnt deserve it, she has been a great mother.

SWIM is lost and doesnt know what to do. She loves her mother and doesnt want to lose her, but she loves her drugs and doesnt want to live without them. And whats the point in going to rehab if SWIM doesnt even want to quit? That would just be a waste of everybodys time and money.

Any sggestions much appreciated...................

[shuanna]

SWIM has had to contend with parents wanting control in a range of areas of her life. She found that when they were unable to get that control, parents would withdraw from communication or interaction with her.

SWIM's parents operate a thriving manufacturing and construction supply business in another state to where she lives [australia]. SWIM understands issues of control, she's experienced them intensely as she is a transexual, and has live as female for over a decade. The biggest area of contention is that swim has been unable to secure sustainable and ongoing employment appropriate to her skill and ability, or even other work.

SWIM suggests that SWIY try to stress to her family that she loves them, would like them to love her, preferably unconditionally. If she don't live with them, SWIM suggests that she is halfway through the battle to being free of their control, especially if she has a good income and are able to have a good life, alongside using, that is.

Being faced with such an ultimatum is saddening. Some parents will have taken up a practice called "tough love" whereby they feel the only way to go, and get someone to change, is by taking a hard line, even if that means cutting off communication or whatever. If that is the likely scenario, it can be very hard to beat as SWIY parent/s may be getting supported or encouraged by others with the same kind of views. SWIM feels in her own experience this might have been the case, ironically it was all happening before she used. SWIM will return another time. SWIM invites SWIY to talk about things via PM, and as she lives in Australia, SWIY is assured of nearly absolute privacy.

[Paracelsus]

"and loves to get high on meth or ghb as often as she can afford too."
"she loves getting high and does not see any joy in a future without drugs."

These are pretty sure signs of addiction. Could SWIY tell us how often does she take those substances (esp. meth)? If it's physical meth addiction, I would suggest to quit, even if not in rehab. Not seeing any joy in a future without drugs, forget that idea. If drugs were the only joy left to mankind, our race would be extinct by now.

As far as I understood from your post, SWIYs mother seems to be kind of close-minded. The psychological war on drugs did its job. SWIYs mother is indeed unfair to make such an ultimatum. SWIY should try to cut back on her use for a while, or abstain from drugs for two weeks or so, and try to talk to her mother. It will be difficult, but if SWIY wants to get to some kind of compromise, she should try to make her mother understand SWIYs lifestyle, and live her life, without having a ruined relationship with her. If SWIYs mother drinks or smokes, this would be a good starting point. There's no difference between persons who drink/smoke/drink coffee and illicit drug users, from this point of view (except the latter ones are breaking the law).

A long conversation would loosen some tensions, and would do something. Unless SWIYs mother is an ultra-conservative religious fanatic - my mother is .

Good luck and keep us posted!

[Hlucn8]

Wow. That is a difficult problem. How did swiys mom find out in the first place? Swims personal opinion is that altering ones mind is sort of like sexual orientation. It really isn't anybody else's business, unless it gets out of control and starts to affect those around the individual. Swim sees no reason to parade either issue down the street. Being heterosexual, perhaps swim is a little culturally insensitive to homosexuality issues, (so please don't flame me), but if swim wanted to sleep with a guy, swim wouldn't feel the need to make my actions known to anybody. In the same respect, swim using mind altering chems is a very private thing. How did swiys mom find out? Swim wouldn't want to encourage lying about everything, but swim would definitely not disclose any info about such private issues if asked point blank. Perhaps a little mis-direction is called for? (again, let swiys conciouns dictate swiyrs action in this regard.)
On the other hand, if swiys use is posing a problem, perhaps paracelsus advice is in order. Maybe some sobriety is a good thing for swiy. Swiy is the main one qualified to make that decision, though. Tell swiy to take a good personal inventory. NA/AA CAN be a good thing. perhaps it is alittle goofy and cultic, but two people with the same problem seems to be the best, (if not only), way for humans to help one another out of these sorts of problems.
At any rate, swiy has to decide whether to be honest and risk loosing her mom, to lie and have to live with that, or to just decide to go it without the stuff and change her outlook on life, keep her mom, and save some money in the process. Let us know how it all works out. Swims heart goes out to swiy.

[Forthesevenlakes]

This is a tough quandary, rendered tougher by the fact that many people have a dichotomous view of drugs, e.g. either use drugs, OR be a decent human being. Their social programming does not allow for the third option of use drugs AND be a decent human being, so they tend to buy into the media and government fueled hysteria when they find out a loved one is using drugs. Perhaps swiy should remind her mother of how things were before SWIY used drugs. If the relationship was the same, and her mother did not suspect anything or find other reasons to chastise swiy, then that would be a piece of evidence that SWIY is able to mantain a relationship with both her mother and drugs.

SWIM does not like to point fingers and say "addict", so regardless of where SWIY thinks she stands on the scale of addiction, why not take a break? It could be explained that people can only quit for themselves, never for others, but that swiy could be willing to take a break for a month or so. The benefits of this would be many, as paracelsus and halucn8 stated above, and SWIY's mother would be placated, at least for a time. If SWIY continues to want to use drugs, perhaps make it a bit less salient, or moderate use more.

This is a really difficult question that SWIM wants to give some more thought to, so he'll reply more later.

[Alfa]

One thing SWIY forgot to add is why SWIY's mom has given SWIY this ultimatum. Please elaborate on this...

[~lostgurl~]

Originally Posted by Paracelsus

"and loves to get high on meth or ghb as often as she can afford too."
"she loves getting high and does not see any joy in a future without drugs."

These are pretty sure signs of addiction. Could SWIY tell us how often does she take those substances (esp. meth)? If it's physical meth addiction, I would suggest to quit, even if not in rehab. Not seeing any joy in a future without drugs, forget that idea. If drugs were the only joy left to mankind, our race would be extinct by now.

As far as I understood from your post, SWIYs mother seems to be kind of close-minded. The psychological war on drugs did its job. SWIYs mother is indeed unfair to make such an ultimatum. SWIY should try to cut back on her use for a while, or abstain from drugs for two weeks or so, and try to talk to her mother. It will be difficult, but if SWIY wants to get to some kind of compromise, she should try to make her mother understand SWIYs lifestyle, and live her life, without having a ruined relationship with her. If SWIYs mother drinks or smokes, this would be a good starting point. There's no difference between persons who drink/smoke/drink coffee and illicit drug users, from this point of view (except the latter ones are breaking the law).

A long conversation would loosen some tensions, and would do something. Unless SWIYs mother is an ultra-conservative religious fanatic - my mother is .

Good luck and keep us posted!

SWIM knows she is an addict, has spent the last ten years addicted to a range of substances, the last 5 addicted to meth. Due to finances this is rarely a daily habit, although the days SWIM does not have meth she has little or no energy for anything other than sleep. GHB is not something SWIM feels addicted too, more something she enjoys whenever she gets the chance.

SWIMs mother does not drink or smoke or take drugs or drink coffee or break the law in any way, shape or form, though to her there is still a big difference between legally drinking alcohol and illegally taking drugs.

Originally Posted by Alfa

One thing SWIY forgot to add is why SWIY's mom has given SWIY this ultimatum. Please elaborate on this...

SWIM's sister told mother about drug habit and in SWIMs mothers words:

"I have done some thinking and have come to the conclusion, for mental and physical reasons that I can't cope with the lifestyle you are leading. It is too upsetting and my stomach is churning, and I know at this stage of my life that it is not good for me. "

SWIM has had a very close relationship with her mother over the past 2 years while her mom has thought SWIM to be clean and sober.

[Alfa]

What other events have lead to this? SWIY seems to mention in another topic that when SWIY is in withdrawal from Meth, SWIY's family has a hard time with SWIY's behaviour? That's why I am asking.

[~lostgurl~]

Originally Posted by Alfa

What other events have lead to this? SWIY seems to mention in another topic that when SWIY is in withdrawal from Meth, SWIY's family has a hard time with SWIY's behaviour? That's why I am asking.

SWIM's mother has noted too many occasions over the past few months where SWIM has no energy for even the simplest tasks, which she only now realizes is drug related.

[bewilderment]

How would swiy's mother know if swiy continued using anyway? Also, are these habits affecting swiy's health in any way?

[~lostgurl~]

Originally Posted by bewilderment

How would swiy's mother know if swiy continued using anyway? Also, are these habits affecting swiy's health in any way?

SWIMs mother wants her in rehab, couselling and is talking about hair tests to prove she is not using. Also SWIM would have to find a better way to cope with the days she is not using so her mother wouldnt become suspicious. SWIM feels like a teenager again even writing this! She is not sure if she is more annoyed or sad at this point.

No this is not affecting SWIM's physical health, though most definately affects her mental health.

[SPWIM]

SWIY's mother can't come to terms with the fact SWIY uses drugs; she's living a lie. SWIY needs to tell her that her daughter has changed and still loves her mum very much but won't allow her to control her life.

[~lostgurl~]

Originally Posted by SPWIM

SWIY's mother can't come to terms with the fact SWIY uses drugs; she's living a lie. SWIY needs to tell her that her daughter has changed and still loves her mum very much but won't allow her to control her life.

That is precisely what SWIM told her mother and from that her mother decided that she cant be a part of SWIMs life unless SWIM is ready to accept help in dealing with her addiction (help will come in full dose too, this is not a best of both worlds decision)

SWIM is fairly sure that her mother has gotten advice from some anti drug group promoting the tough love response, and SWIM could have played along, to keep the peace and keep her mom happy, but this control with ultimatums has been going on SWIMS whole life and SWIM is sick of feeling guilty for all her choices that her mom does not agree with and approve of, even if they should have no bearing on her mothers life anyway.

SWIM is swinging hard and fast between guilt and anger. She wants her mom to be happy, and proud of her daughter, but she doesn't know if shes willing to do whatever to make this happen. SWIM really wishes she could just curl up in a ball and sleep forever.

[SPWIM]

Perhaps is SWIY is prepared to call her mother's bluff then her mum may come to terms with the situation rather than making true her threats.

[Alfa]

Calling her bluff? This is not a game. This is about loosing one of the most important people in life.
Why not try to have an open conversation about the things that SWIY's mother misses in SWIY? To create some understanding and insight into why SWIY's mother is going this far. Why not try to get this information without countering it. Just to let it sink in and think about where she comes from. Try to evaluate what causes SWIY's mother to be worried. All SWIY has to loose in that is a bit of time. Which is better than a hardline yes or no approach IMO.

[SPWIM]

Well obviously SWIlostgurl knows her own mother and knows which approaches will be safe or not. Just sharing the idea.

[Paracelsus]

SWIMs mother does not drink or smoke or take drugs or drink coffee or break the law in any way, shape or form

Made me think. My mother is exactly the same. She claims to have abstained from anything mind-altering all her life. Would SWIY mind if I'd ask her if her mother is an ultraconservative religious fanatic?

[~lostgurl~]

Originally Posted by Alfa

Calling her bluff? This is not a game. This is about loosing one of the most important people in life.
Why not try to have an open conversation about the things that SWIY's mother misses in SWIY? To create some understanding and insight into why SWIY's mother is going this far. Why not try to get this information without countering it. Just to let it sink in and think about where she comes from. Try to evaluate what causes SWIY's mother to be worried. All SWIY has to loose in that is a bit of time. Which is better than a hardline yes or no approach IMO.

It is because SWIM's mother is one of the most important people in her life that she is having such a hard time with this. If SWIM didn't care she would just tell her mom to go f**k herself. But SWIM does care, and she loves her mother very much. SWIM's mom has tried to understand her daughter, really tried. She has listened to her, read books and researched addiction, and SWIM has tried to explain how she feels many times in conversation and in writing, but SWIM's mom just has no comprehension of the word addiction. It just doesn't exist in her world, she just cannot fathom it. SWIMs mother has done a lot for SWIM: Support, encouragement, time, money, energy.... so much more than SWIM would ever expect of any mother, of anyone.... and SWIM wishes she could just be all that her mom wants her to be, but she is not that person. And SWIM feels guilty that she is not that person, and shes been feeling guilty long before drugs ever came along.

Originally Posted by Paracelsus

Made me think. My mother is exactly the same. She claims to have abstained from anything mind-altering all her life. Would SWIY mind if I'd ask her if her mother is an ultraconservative religious fanatic?

SWIM's mother is not religious, but she is a perfectionist, has very high standards and morals, and expects others to have the same. ultraconservative yes, religious no.

[Forthesevenlakes]

ultimately, SWIY can live only for SWIYself, and not her mother. this means that SWIY must be the person SHE wants herself to be, not what her mother wants to be. however, try to take a step back and assess the situation from an objective viewpoint. this may be difficult in the middle of a conflict, but perhaps make a list of the arguments swiy's mother has made, and what could be valid and invalid about each. perhaps SWIY will find that who she wants to be is, to a large degree, overlapping with what her mother wants. Is what SWIY's mother wants out of SWIY valid and worthwhile goals? they could be, too. also take a look and see if drug use would prohibit SWIY from reaching these goals, and to what extent drugs may be harming the relationship. these things could all help swiy come to a decision as to what to do. SWIY's mother may not be able to fully understand swiy, but she still may have some valid points to make.

The thing is, drugs will come and go, but a mother is irreplacable. however, some of the mom's suggestions (hair tests, e.g.) seem a bit extreme to request of an adult in order to mantain a familial relationship. but relationships are give and take: perhaps a frank discussion about use and an honest attempt to avoid addiction at least, if not take a break for some time could lead to a concession on the mother's part to accept some of SWIY's decisions and not make their contact contingent upon drug testing. accepting SWIY does not have to mean condoning SWIY's actions, and the mother must understand that.

perhaps an outside mediator or family counselor wouldn't be a bad idea? some kind of third party might be able to facilitate communication and understanding between SWIY and SWIY's mother, and the advantage would be that they would have no emotional investment or preconceptions in either person or the situation, so they would be much better able to arbitrate a solution than SWIY might be able to do on her own.

this is certainly a sticky issue, and there is no easy answer. SWIM is not in a position to say that SWIY should or shouldnt stop using drugs, but he can say that a break could be useful as a bartering chip to get her and her mother to sit down, maybe with a counsellor, and discuss these issues before swiy loses her mother entirely, which would be tragic. whether or not her mother's viewpoint on drugs may be irrational, it is clear that she is doing this out of love, and swiy posted this out of love, so a solution could probably be found, but not without much work. best of luck, and keep us posted.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good advice and perspectives view

[~lostgurl~]

Originally Posted by Alfa

Why not try to have an open conversation about the things that SWIY's mother misses in SWIY? To create some understanding and insight into why SWIY's mother is going this far.

SWIM has been reading and thinking and trying to take all the suggestions in, playing out scenarios in her head of her mom's responses... and she just realized what damn good advice you have given Alfa. SWIM's mom has given her reasons on how she thinks drugs negatively impact SWIM's life, but has never touched on who SWIM was before she became an addict, (like 10 years ago, not just a random 2 month break) and how both SWIM and her mom felt about SWIM then and now and how their relationship has developed during this time. Well its worth a shot anyway, SWIM will at least feel better to understand her mom's view more clearly.

[~lostgurl~]

Thanks Forthesevenlakes, your last post really hit home to SWIM. SWIM was feeling cornered by her mom to choose the drugs or her, but SWIM can now see more paths to travel then just those two.

[Forthesevenlakes]

^^I am glad to hear that! Life cannot usually be broken down to simple either/or decisions, there's normally a million shades of grey between the black and white, you know? I am thinking there could be an effective compromise for SWIY and SWIY's mother, since they both seem eager to mantain a good relationship, the only difference is how they feel they can go about doing this.

[Trebor]

Swim's mom, when he was 16, found 1/2 oz of hash and 30 quid, she burnt the hash and stole the money and gave Swim a long lecture about how drugs are bad, his dad didn't speak to him for a week and he almost moved out of his house, but alas he had no money. So, as for controlling parents, fuck them. Swim loved that week where his dad didn't speak to him. It was so quiet. Swim might now go and leave some flour around the house... Of course they still don't know that Swim is continuing his usage but Swim couldn't care less if they did, he ain't 16 anymore.

[El Calico Loco]

Caring for others requires a difficult balancing act. Care too little what others think, and you're a narcissist; care too much, and others will walk all over you.

I think you should care about others' thoughts and feelings, but not at the expense of your own. This is the story of your life. You get to tell it. No one else can tell it for you, no matter how much they might want to.


ECL

[Forthesevenlakes]

Originally Posted by El Calico Loco

I think you should care about others' thoughts and feelings, but not at the expense of your own.

This is very true, ECL. One of the most common questions I ask people who are struggling with relationship or family issues due to domineering significant others or family members is, "Well, who are you going to live for? You, or them?" Certainly, people must think for themselves and make the decisions that will derive them the greatest personal happiness, but sometimes what that decision is, is not so easy to say. Drugs are unique among choices in that they afford alot of short-term happiness, but sometimes at the expense of much long-term happiness. However, SWIM is a believer in the tenet that there is always a middle path; a way to strike a balance between the short-term happiness of drug use, with the long-term happiness of more powerful things like familial love, a feeling of meaning in one's life, happiness with a profession or one's personal abilities, etc. I think alot of the issue at hand here is how swiLostgirl can increase the long-term happiness of a happy relationship with her mother, without sacrificing all of the short-term happiness of drugs. While her mother may think that this is an either/or situation, it may be worth it to attempt to get her to see the intermediate options.

SWIM must also stress though that if addiction if a reality in the SWIY's case, then perhaps some form of counseling, abstinence, etc. might not be a bad idea, but it must be done for the right reasons. A person can only stay clean for themself, not for anyone else; this falls right in with the belief that one can only live for themself. The mother in this situation may have to understand and accept this fact as well.