Addiction - kratom and addiction

[omen8productions]

an as-brief-as possible account of kratom binge and after effects and a note to the addict:

SWIM acquired 4 ounces of standard, quality kratom from a reputable source. his first dose was 6 grams, finely ground, stirred into applesauce. he boosted with 6 gram doses every couple hours. his experience can be seen here:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24426

in short, the effects were very similar to opiates.

the next day SWIM woke up with a splitting headache and mild nausea which he endured for a few hours. knowing withdrawal pretty well, he figured it was the kratom. SWIM prepared a 7 gram dose, which became his standard dose over the next three days. the withdrawal vanished in fifteen minutes...and so it went.

the major side-effect during SWIM's binge was a foul attitude, bordering on sociopathic. not only during withdrawal but also while quite high. he usually wanted people to shut the hell up, ignored everyone, and even considered pushing his good friend down a flight of stairs. SWIM has used perscriptions, (vicodin, oxycontin, etc...), for extended periods and he did pretty much ignore the world, but he never actually wanted to hurt people. SWIM returned to his usual optimistically sarcastic self after the kratom use.

the answer is pretty obvious, don't take so much kratom SWIM! yeah. this is more of a warning to anyone who has had problems with substance abuse as SWIM has had. though kratom is legal, easy to get, natural, and not usually noted as addictive; it will probably be a problem for the addict. it proved to be one of those things that the addict can use and use and use. chasing a high as long as he can. there is probably reason for concern when you are overly concerned about where to get more, and never want to share.

SWIM will stick to his bi-weekly trip type substances...and some herb.

peace.

[snapper]

They have treatment centers for kratom in Thailand. It is very addictive, as is any narcotic. For the record, certain narcotics used to make SWIM totally cranky and aggressive, but fortunately not kratom. Though the withdrawal is not as nasty as from a traditional opiate, it is still very psychologically and somewhat physically addicting. Probably best done weekly to biweekly if one is concerned about getting a habit.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by omen8productions

SWIM acquired 4 ounces of standard, quality kratom from a reputable source. his first dose was 6 grams, finely ground, stirred into applesauce. he boosted with 6 gram doses every couple hours.

Why so often/such small amounts? SWIM recommends closer to 8-10 grams no more often than every six hours (eating the solids *should* make the high last that long).

[snapper]

Nicaine - how much was SWIY using daily when SWIY quit?

SWIM is about to stop and is trying to gain some perspective on what to expect. SWIM will be tapering for a while so will probably not have much trouble, but better prepared than not.
SWIM quit a 8+year long 10+ml/day GBL habit and aside from some psychological pangs, the only consequence was that SWIMs insomnia came back. However, SWIM also kicked heroin twice and that was really hard. SWIM would rather avoid dope sickness if possible.. also, did anything help make the withdrawal easier ?

Dropinem - it's spelled Kratom, to KraNtom..

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by snapper

Nicaine - how much was SWIY using daily when SWIY quit?

Three or four doses per day of between 15-30 grams per dose. Since it lasts a solid 6 hours for SWIM when he ingests the physical plant matter, he didn't have to dose too often.

SWIM is about to stop and is trying to gain some perspective on what to expect. SWIM will be tapering for a while so will probably not have much trouble, but better prepared than not.
SWIM quit a 8+year long 10+ml/day GBL habit and aside from some psychological pangs, the only consequence was that SWIMs insomnia came back. However, SWIM also kicked heroin twice and that was really hard. SWIM would rather avoid dope sickness if possible.. also, did anything help make the withdrawal easier ?

"The usual suspects" (benzos, etc) helped with akathisia and agitation, but basically nothing helped with the extreme fatigue (SWIM didn't try anything like amphetamines or coke, just caffeine... which is not strong enough to even begin to touch kratom withdrawal fatigue). SWIY should expect to remain in a seated or lying position most of the time for the first three days... standing up is WAY too much work to be doing very much of. Also, if depression is gonna show up, SWIM thinks it will make its appearance around days 4-7 and hang around at least a week.

[snapper]

Well, SWIM's only using an average of 10g/day so likely it will not be so bad. Also, SWIM does not dose 24/7.
SWIM will be sure to share when SWIM finally actually stops, which is hard given that SWIM still has a good amount of leaf.
SWIM has never been blessed in the SelfWIM-discipline...

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by snapper

SWIM will be sure to share when SWIM finally actually stops, which is hard given that SWIM still has a good amount of leaf.
SWIM has never been blessed in the SelfWIM-discipline...

Yah, ditto with SWIM (except he's been known to toss remaining quantities of things, at least once they get so low it doesn't matter much anyway ).

[I<3Salvia]

This isn't coming from an addict, but why didn't swiy dose with kratom only say once a week or so. On the other days swiy could do some other alternative ethno high so as not to get addicted. Also what would swiy's maximum amount of usage per week be recommended without too much risk of addiction. Like swim before stated this isn't coming from an addict, and is an honest question.

[snapper]

Well, narcotics are addicting. SWIM has a predisposition to getting addicted to things, and kratom appears to be one of them. Some people do not have the propensity to become addicted to things, and others moreso. there is also the fact that kratom has not proven to have much of a withdrawal, so SWIM is more likely to let SWIMs guard down because the consequences are not that bad. once a week should not create a dependence. It is when it becomes twice a week, then three times, then every other day, then every day, then twice a day, etc that you are in trouble.

[DrMuffy]

SWIdr has always loved opiates and their effects over any other drug. He would use them constantly, anything he could get his hands on, until pretty much all of his sorces went dry. He soon found out about kratom and his first experience was with 3 g of (supposedly) 15X extract, it was beautiful (much like 40 mg of oxycodone). So when SWIdr discovered this magnificant ethno, he ordered 16 oz premium kratom from an online source. He first started using it in 5 g doses almost every night, but his tolerance soon developed fast. Within a couple of weeks of daily use his normal dose to get high (which wasnt as good by then anyways) was 25 g. When he ran out, he decided not to order anymore for a lil bit and stick with other drugs to get his tolerance down. Well to his surprise he went into a very bad withdrawel from going cold turkey. He had aches all over and became nausous when he would stand, he started to sleep almost 20 hours of the day due to extreme fatigue and other drugs he though would help (Valium, hydro/oxy codone). Well he has now learned his lession about kratom and tries to use in moderation.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by Dropinem

I know it can and is addicting but from this thread i hope to find how much it takes to get addicted.

For instance Swim got addicted to pain killers after 6 months of poping 20mg of hydrocoden 3-4 times a week. Before that Swim done it 1-2 a week for 6 months with 20mg.

So i guess im asking people who have the balls to admit their krantom addiction to post what it took to get them there.

Fwiw, SWIM is no longer dependent on kratom. Predictably, physical dependence began to appear at the same time as increasing tolerance and the need for higher doses to get the same effects.

In SWIM's case, psychological dependence came on much more slowly and didn't really start feeling well-entrenched until around 9 months of chronic, daily use. After that, the idea of quitting became scary as hell and actually quitting brought on depression and severe mood swings.