Experiences - MDPV Experience Report(s)

[Nicaine]

More like "cotton-gut." That crap expands in contact with liquids to fill about 10 times the initial volume it takes up. Great way to severely block/gum up the intestinal tract.

[snapper]

SWIM, who has no intention of trying propylhexedrine gets a sour stomach from too much MDPV alone. SWIM does not get much in the way of depression from it, though. In fact, in smaller doses, it seems to be a good pick me up without a crash. SWIM has found that dosing this in increments makes it much easier for SWIM to use (ie-2mg, followed by 1-2mg doses to effect). The hard part is stopping, since MDPV demands more MDPV. This is why SWIM swore off coke and amphetamines decades ago.

[Nicaine]

SWIM really f*cked up... he dosed on MDPV last evening (early) and at the same time was experimenting with a new script for Lunesta. Early on he began 'chasing' the MDPV high, with his judgment & general cognitive abilities affected by the Lunesta. Rectal admin was involved, and SWIM forgot about delayed absorption effects. About an hour ago he checked out his MDPV supply and realized he took around 25mg over the course of the night. Given the time frame, that's about 2.5 times the max he should have taken.

SWIM is maintaining OK on benzos/Lunesta as long as he's mentally preoccupied, but if he lies down & tries to sleep he becomes panicky after several minutes. He supposes he should be glad he checked when he did, and did not keep redosing. It will be interesting to see how much longer the effects last (previous experience indicates quite a long duration at high dosages).

Edit -- ahhh, SWIM feels a bit drowsy and suddenly has a serious case of the munchies. Sometimes he wonders (half seriously) if he does stimulants because it can feel so good to come down.

[snapper]

Nicaine. Only make enough diluted product for one night and don't mix this one with sedatives or alcohol. The latter make one too careless about dosage and more tolerant to the stimulant effects, and hence your monkey ends up needing to be distracted to prevent it's heart from exploding because it was fed too much.
SWIM knows how it feels to take too much MDPV (see other thread), but in SWIMs experience it wears off pretty quickly and is easier than most stims to sleep on.
Good luck and stop trying to kill your monkeys! SWIY needs to accept that with MDPV it is not safe, or at least not comfortable, to push the envelope, no matter how loudly it calls to you.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by snapper

Nicaine. Only make enough diluted product for one night

Good idea, SWIM would have to get a scale tho... he'll probably do that pretty soon.

and don't mix this one with sedatives or alcohol. The latter make one too careless about dosage and more tolerant to the stimulant effects, and hence your monkey ends up needing to be distracted to prevent it's heart from exploding because it was fed too much.
SWIM knows how it feels to take too much MDPV (see other thread), but in SWIMs experience it wears off pretty quickly and is easier than most stims to sleep on.

SWIY must not use the rectal route much... delayed absorption seems to be capable of dramatically prolonging the effects. SWIM is not going to use MDPV rectally any more, period.

Good luck and stop trying to kill your monkeys! SWIY needs to accept that with MDPV it is not safe, or at least not comfortable, to push the envelope, no matter how loudly it calls to you.

SWIM isn't trying to kill his monkeys, it's just that the stark fact is this stuff is (A) very inexpensive and (B) quite addictive. SWIM estimates maybe 75% as addictive as coke. If it's around and SWIM is not doing it, he's likely craving it. He's certainly learning something though, after experiences like the other night. Don't chase a high with it, and don't do it rectally if SWIM can't resist re-dosing. He'll stick to intranasal from now on (which does wear off fairly quickly, at least if SWIM hasn't been repeatedly redosing for long periods of time).

If it continues to kick his @ss, SWIM won't order it again. No point if it's gonna be unpleasant a majority of the time.

[snapper]

Maybe this thread should be merged with the other one going in tandem to it. I guess it could get confusing though.
SWIM does not feel that MDPV's addiction potential is not even close to the draw of cocaine. It reminds SWIM of BZP, but less potential for a binge use due to side effects. SWIM bets that those two would combine well.

[Nicaine]

SWIM went overboard with MDPV again... he's certain now that his control over this substance is really weak. It's such an elusive tease that SWIM will basically drop everything & blindly chase the high, until he suddenly realizes wtf he's been doing (at some point far beyond where he should have given up & gone done something else).

There's only one solution to this issue... don't use it any more. SWIM is fine after going 3-4 days without it, but definitely gets cravings in between... he'll have to figure out the best method to kick this c@ckteasing b*tch (at least she's cheap) out of his life.

It reminds SWIM of BZP, but less potential for a binge use due to side effects.

SWIM has a lot of stuff around that cancels many of its side effects, not to mention he seems to have a high tolerance before the really bad ones kick in. SWIM finds cocaine more satisfying, i.e. over some given period of time he gets sick of the high & at least WANTS to stop. MDPV just calls and calls and calls, with seemingly no end to it.

It builds up in the bloodstream like other substances too, with the end result that the duration of effects keeps on stretching with total dosage. To explain this better, let's say that MDPV has a half-life of 3 hours, and effects disappear completely at 1.5 mg. SWIY keeps doing small redoses over the first 3 hours, so at the end of it he has 15mg in his bloodstream. Guess what, 3 hours later he'll have 7.5mg (effects still going), 3 hours after THAT he'll have 3.75mg (effects still going), 3 hours after THAT he'll have 1.875mg (effects still going), 3 hours after THAT he'll have 0.9mg (effects starting to fade). Total duration of the high, 15 hours. That's only if he stops redosing after the first 3 hours, too (SWIM does not). Arbitrary/inaccurate numbers, but hope that made sense...

[nanobrain]

MDPV's insidiousness is truly underestimated:

a careful perusal of aforeposted pyrovalerone analog papers reveals that the initial design rationale was an anti-cocaine addiction agent...

as DA antagonist it would not do, ruling out efficacy criterion numero uno.

alas that leaves us with numero dos: a replacement which trained rats wold not discrim from said cola and self administer to their explodng hearts content, but at a rate less toxic than the primary stimulant from which the rats with monkeys on their backs were to be weaned...

they (whitecoats) were not wrong in their predictions. in some trials, MDPV replaced all drugs of dependance the addict was using, save for any carrier matrix to enable access into the dependent brain.

so Brer Rat, to many puzzled scientists surprise, ceased self administering a long list of agents ranging from alcohol to coffee to psychedelics, which no longer held interest of reward, the poor rat never wondered what it all meant - too busy getting on...

and, then fine morning, ooh ah, the sun was shining on a sober head, things to be done the rat (its twitching whiskers said) it reached for the admin device when woe with warning none at all oh me oh my, the sour taste aside nothing was left of active's action, nil, zip, yes you heard right sir, thats a negatory, Captain.

the rat sat in dismay, in vain (not vein) ateempting to achive what once seemed oh so easy..300 via smoke, time for bed, oh shit, nor the 500 mgs over a day's course, 200 via oral, the researchers stood in shock, their jaws agape, unnoticed drool collecting in their stained and ducktaped labcoat pockets, one went so far as to shatter his trusted Tanita gainst a nearstanding hapless LHC which now refuses to collide charmed quarks, the rat asleep at evenng's mid with dinnerplate 'affalling from his hand - not dead, asleep like old Rip (the Dutch of dreaming fame)..

the moral of the story goes, between the lines the tuth and just as often flows...tred carefully on the cutting edge for you may end up with a wedge of sober pie which makes the humble kind look like a, ummm, blesssing?

the measured cogs of the said rat - and granted the exposure was exteme in nature - showed much decline post use vs apriori on several common scales, associative recall (bad in rodents anyway) showed longer mean times and so on, only parameter untouched was mathematics, for the numbers, the rat said, had soaked up a cetrain flavour, a colour and a shape which made their permutations either so or not - and consonant or dissonant to boot.

the rat was sent for further studies, we await postmortem morphology (all rats are sacrificed after experiment - alive or not - you knew that, right?), but mate, ya ever look ata rattie's hypothalamus? and you need to slice, slice, slice...

stay tuned.

Reputation Comments on this post:

excellent info

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by nanobrain

MDPV's insidiousness is truly underestimated:

a careful perusal of aforeposted pyrovalerone analog papers reveals that the initial design rationale was an anti-cocaine addiction agent...

as DA antagonist it would not do, ruling out efficacy criterion numero uno.

alas that leaves us with numero dos: a replacement which trained rats wold not discrim from said cola and self administer to their explodng hearts content, but at a rate less toxic than the primary stimulant from which the rats with monkeys on their backs were to be weaned...

Hmm... it's not hard for SWIM's lab rats to discriminate MDPV from cola: MDPV is a crappy/unsatisfying high, cola is reasonably good/satisfying. Not to mention, cola really does almost make his rats hearts explode, whereas MDPV has comparatively minor sympathomimetic effects.

Also, MDPV apparently tweaks only dopamine; cola hits serotonin/norepinephrine too, and causes a general feeling of heightened excitation (as if the brain had been temporarily overclocked from 100 THz to 500 THz). MDPV's effects do not even remotely resemble this.

they (whitecoats) were not wrong in their predictions. in some trials, MDPV replaced all drugs of dependance the addict was using, save for any carrier matrix to enable access into the dependent brain.

It's certainly unique in its tendency to be so unsatisfying and FRUSTRATING to use that it can drive a person to repeatedly and continually use it in a futile attempt to obtain gratification. If it wasn't a fairly decent sexual stimulant for SWIM (it is, and sex acts provide at least temporary satisfaction) he would have thrown up his hands and stopped wasting his time. It's worth noting that humans are not rats/monkeys, and 'higher' brain functions can override any craving/desire (including the will to live).

P.S. nice humor... SWIM would probably LOL if he wasn't so damn tired. He finds many RC'ers to be a bit on the paranoid side though (side effect of regular psychedelic use?). If MDPV's effects were identical to coke, he thinks he'd be hearing how millions were about to become irretrievably addicted, experience multiple seizures + cardiac/respiratory arrest and finally suffer a VX/Tabun/Sarin-like death. If it's an RC and has neither profound hallucinogenic nor profoundly empathogenic effects, it must be mean, simple, alien, downright dangerous and (worst of all) not profound enough . Sorry guys, SWIM feels a lot of Holier-Than-Thou vibes (in general, not on this thread) from self-proclaimed psychonauts supposedly dedicated to "Perfect Spiritual Enlightenment" via messing with the wholly physical/material chunks of protein in their heads. ISHO there's a deep contradiction and sense of self-deception in all this. God sake... sorry for yet another rant, this is getting ridiculous. Time to log off for a good long while.

[snapper]

How does SWIY know that this tolerance is permanent? SWIM recalls a previous post where SWIY made that claim, but are there references to support this effect?
Does said rat just dine on sober pie for then on, or are they all sacrificed for necropsy before their natural lives have passed, leaving the duration of this sequella uncertain ?

[Nagognog2]

Never mind the teratogenics involved.

[nanobrain]

teratogenic tesseracts indeed, offspring to be born triangles at best, but we may not let the said sad rat retire to stud in deserved rest, sequella - hella knos, the rat shows no desire to partake which i'm afraid is the opposite of tolerance efects?

[Nagognog2]

Sounds utterly diabolical. I think the rats should be caged for keeps and never allowed to stud. Who knows what kind of hideous alterations to the gnome may occur.

[Nagognog2]

Perhaps this needs clarification.

What the rats showed was the drive to use MDPV to the exclusion of all else. The rat was driven to constantly imbibe MDPV. Until a point was reached where nothing else would work. And then the effects - regardless of dosage - of the MDPV disappeared. Leaving rattus rattus with no options left but to jones for more MDPV. Which no longer had an appreciable effect.

How good is that?

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

What the rats showed was the drive to use MDPV to the exclusion of all else. The rat was driven to constantly imbibe MDPV. Until a point was reached where nothing else would work. And then the effects - regardless of dosage - of the MDPV disappeared. Leaving rattus rattus with no options left but to jones for more MDPV. Which no longer had an appreciable effect.

How good is that?

Can SWIY provide a link to this study (or whatever it was)? Not that SWIM disbelieves it, but this type of claim needs verifying or it remains "a claim made on an Internet forum (tm)."

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

Perhaps this needs clarification.

What the rats showed was the drive to use MDPV to the exclusion of all else. The rat was driven to constantly imbibe MDPV. Until a point was reached where nothing else would work. And then the effects - regardless of dosage - of the MDPV disappeared. Leaving rattus rattus with no options left but to jones for more MDPV. Which no longer had an appreciable effect.

How good is that?

BTW Nagog, I apologize for jumping the gun on your post above... given the info now out, this is beginning to make sense to SWIM. He wonders what kind of past negative experiences SWIY has had with stimulants, given what he feels is a somewhat reactionary attitude toward the whole category (but that's neither here nor there, merely a personal opinion that could of course be wrong). SWIM has his issues with certain substance categories himself, notably psychedelics/hallucinogens.

Anyway... first off, chronic intake of large doses of dopamine reuptake inhibitors invariably results in dopamine depletion or dopamine receptor down-regulation. Meaning less or no effect from the substance in question and serious withdrawals when it's not around. Coke causes this after a really long run, & not only dopamine but norepinephrine and serotonin depletion as well (resulting in a much worse feeling than anything MDPV could pull off in its wildest dreams).

Second, most or all stimulants in large/chronic doses cause brain damage. Coke is documented to, meth is documented to, Ritalin is documented to, MDMA is documented to (very little controversy re: large doses over long periods). Even ephedrine is documented to. It makes sense that MDPV would also have the potential to do so, resulting in a brain that no longer functions normally either with or without it. Whether it's permanent or not depends on one's definition of "permanent," I suppose... it seems the rats in question quit using MDPV not all that long ago.

SWIM still feels that almost none of the blame goes to MDPV, if he interpreted nano's 'lifetime dose' post correctly. Hit yourself over the head with a hammer often/hard enough and you will permanently damage both your skull and your ability to keep on hitting. The hammer itself doesn't seem to deserve much of the blame, unless SWIM missed something important.

[snapper]

That's what SWIM was asking. Also, nanovbrain makes it seem that these rats cannot get an effect from other stims after abuse, though it was a bit difficult to get any precision out of Nanobrain's rhetoric (sounds cool when read aloud, though..). SWIM thinks it was intimated in a previous post by the same that MDPV creates a huge, permanent tolerance to all things dopamine. Does it and what backs that up? If so, it is an incredible tool for the drug war !
SWIM doesn't buy it, though. SWIM can stop whenever SWIM wants (sound stereotypical..)!. However, SWIM too agrees that MDPV possesses a lack of depth, probably brought about by the lack of serotonin and norepi (not to mention endorphin, but a little Kratom 'll fix that !). So swim's strung out rats are busily exporing combinations with lower doses of hallucinogenics which Nicaine berates so much. SWIM, BTW, has had no draw to continue any MDPV after the 10 mg mark. Just gets yuckie. SWIM also agrees about the cumlitive tolerance, but it actually is easier to sleep with this chem than most as it does not last long. MDPV and 5meoMIPT are a very promising combination so far. SWIM liked it a lot more than MDPV alone. Very fun. Also smoked some DPT at the peak, which was also very fun.
Maybe the RCs are making SWIM paranoid, but SWINicaine's rats have been the ones suffering damage, whereas SWIMs rats remain unscathed and unaddicted (at least not to MDPV..).
Give the rats some cheese with their MDPV, SWIM says !

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by snapper

That's what SWIM was asking. Also, nanovbrain makes it seem that these rats cannot get an effect from other stims after abuse, though it was a bit difficult to get any precision out of Nanobrain's rhetoric (sounds cool when read aloud, though..). SWIM thinks it was intimated in a previous post by the same that MDPV creates a huge, permanent tolerance to all things dopamine.

It most definitely does not, unless it takes a long time to happen. SWIM used it for a while, went off for about a week and his dopamine-related functions (sex drive etc) were completely normal... also, he responded to MDPV much like taking it for the first time again. However, he did find himself clinically depressed after a run of MDPV use (but there were MANY other factors that could have been the cause).

SWIM doesn't buy it, though.

Neither does SWIM, in particular given the fact that rats/monkeys are not human beings. He does get cravings for MDPV around 4-5 hours after it wears off if he's been using it awhile and stops, but not nearly as much as with cola (which hasn't yet managed to turn anyone's brain to mush after a few uses).

So swim's strung out rats are busily exporing combinations with lower doses of hallucinogenics which Nicaine berates so much.

LOL... sorry. SWIM berates only the subtle attitudes of SOME hallucinogen users (particularly those who use only hallucinogens), not the substances themselves.

P.S. SWIM wanted to post something he found on rxlist.com for Ritalin, since MDPV is perceived as "evil" by some and is similar to Ritalin (which is commonly prescribed to children!) both in mode of action and chemical structure. Food for thought maybe?

Drug Dependence

Ritalin should be given cautiously to emotionally unstable patients, such as those with a history of drug dependence or alcoholism, because such patients may increase dosage on their own initiative.

Chronically abusive use can lead to marked tolerance and psychic dependence with varying degrees of abnormal behavior. Frank psychotic episodes can occur, especially with parenteral abuse. Careful supervision is required during drug withdrawal, since severe depression as well as the effects of chronic overactivity can be unmasked. Long-term follow-up may be required because of the patient’s basic personality disturbances.

[nanobrain]

Nag as always is in no error in his paraphrasations of the speculations proferred by yours truly.

the status of the rattus - quo, sine dubio, even though at the discretion of the laborant, the catalysts of choice were left up to the rat ad libitum - alas, to no response.

to add insult to injury, a given rat was dosed with 2.5 mg/kg MDMA - after a break of oh, 6 months or so - in hope that it may have perhaps elicited a brekthrough. the set was right, the setting proper, 1200MCGs digging the groove on stage in forest under stars, and sure enough - hooray - effect! - and in anticipation of whatever was to come...the rat was sound asleep and all of 40 minutes later...

caution, don't step on the tracks!

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by nanobrain

to add insult to injury, a given rat was dosed with 2.5 mg/kg MDMA - after a break of oh, 6 months or so - in hope that it may have perhaps elicited a brekthrough. the set was right, the setting proper, 1200MCGs digging the groove on stage in forest under stars, and sure enough - hooray - effect! - and in anticipation of whatever was to come...the rat was sound asleep and all of 40 minutes later...

Purely in the interest of clarifying this issue further -- SWIM's rats have 200mg "lifetime" intake of MDPV at this point, taken over the course of one month, and with the last dose less than 24 hours ago. For those who haven't followed this whole thread and are unfamiliar with MDPV, that's around 40 moderate-size doses in total.

He doesn't know how that compares with nanobrain's rats (comments from their owner are welcome), but SWIM tested his with ~200mg methylone tonight and they're so blasted they can barely navigate a simple maze. Clearly MDPV has not affected his rat's ability to respond to other stimulants.

[Nicaine]

Sorry to hear about that, nano... probably a good thing in the long run when rats lose interest in/effects from stimulants tho, eh? Seems like it would be to SWIM, anyway... he'd save a lot of money, be healthier and maybe even live longer.

P.S. Interested to hear why SWIY is so certain MDPV caused this, rather than some other coincidental factor(s)... any hard evidence, or is it 100% conjecture? Strange that nobody else would have reported the same thing happening to their rats. SWIM's rats are approaching 200mg lifetime intake, and they still seem to enjoy their morning coffee (watching those tiny paws grip the cup is so... *cough*, never mind ).

[snapper]

Don't worry Nicaine, your rats are just not finished with their cure yet. A few more 100mgs 'll probably do it....

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by snapper

Don't worry Nicaine, your rats are just not finished with their cure yet. A few more 100mgs 'll probably do it....

I take it that was sarcasm (?)... you want the honest truth, SWIM would actually be happy with a result like that (provided it didn't come with any Parkinson's-like symptoms). Lately he has enjoyed stimulants for their sexual boost capabilities and almost nothing else (and he thinks even that would become unnecessary if he stayed away for a month or two). He really would like to quit the scene, but finds the few aspects he does enjoy to be very compelling.

[Nagognog2]

Nicaine:

Have you ever read the book "Metamorphosis" by Franz Kafka? It might be of interest to you.

Just a thought...

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

Nicaine:

Have you ever read the book "Metamorphosis" by Franz Kafka? It might be of interest to you.

Just a thought...

Nope, haven't read it (never did explore Kafka)... I'll check it out.

Edit -- read a couple brief summaries...

Dominant Philosophy

Gregor’s state before he turned into a bug contrasts with the family’s state after they got jobs and began working. This suggests the Kafka is trying to say that we shouldn’t work like bugs for others leaving out time for ourselves as Gregor had but instead work for ourselves with pride and dignity as the family did at the end of the story.

So were you trying to tell me that I've been focusing too much on what others are doing around here, and should focus more on myself? Or...

P.S. to stay on topic, SWIM is almost out of MDPV & won't have access to any for *at least* several more days... he's rather glad to be rid of it. A nettlesome, lackluster and ultimately dreary substance. Aside from its fiendish qualities, it's hard to see why anyone finds it interesting enough to keep discussing (if SWIM had the money/sources for 'real' stimulants he would have forgotten it existed by now... unfortunately he has to take his kicks where he finds them).