Buprenorphine Basics (suboxone/subutex) for detox from opiates

[missparkles]

Swi constricted, is swiy claiming that after a couple of years of heavy opiate use they were clean in a couple of days, no W/Ds?
Swim finds that hard to believe.
A couple of years of regular opiate use would cause substantial W/D s that would not be over in three days.
Check the DF site, read what others say about opiate addiction. Subutex is not a quick fix but a means of reducing opiate use with a view to eventually stopping.
Thanks.

[Constricted]

I am not saying that it will work for anyone but I swear to you this is someones personal experience and it is very real. I would never lie about something like this. I dont know why it worked for swim but i swear to you any physical addiction they had has been absent for over 20 days now. I dont know how it worked but it did. Swim is totally clean. Believe it or not it was as easy as i described exactly.

Constricted added 4 Minutes and 14 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by missparkles

Swi constricted, is swiy claiming that after a couple of years of heavy opiate use they were clean in a couple of days, no W/Ds?
Swim finds that hard to believe.
A couple of years of regular opiate use would cause substantial W/D s that would not be over in three days.
Check the DF site, read what others say about opiate addiction. Subutex is not a quick fix but a means of reducing opiate use with a view to eventually stopping.
Thanks.

I was simply stating facts on what SWIM personally experienced. I should not recieve a bad advice repremand for SWIM was not giving advice simply telling the honest truth about SWIM overcoming opiate addiction. Dont be so quick to judge, I am not lying about the experiance whatsoever.

[missparkles]

Swim said that long term opiate abuse is not something that swiy can get through in three days, pain free. Swim has never seen or heard of anyone, apart from swiy, who has done this.
Look at DF, read the stories of how others struggle with W/D and PAWS, it will become clear that if this is possible it's the exception, and not the rule.
Swim is sorry if her opinion upset swiy, that wasn't her intention. Swim was just giving her opinion...
Take care.

[adam7050]

amazing sucess! usage was 10-15 Roxy 30's per day
afoaf injected bup shots in his ass for 5 days along with suboxone(from his doctor) for a total of 5 weeks, lowering the dosage slowly down to 1/4 pill for the last 4 days. almost scary how easy it made it.

it's been 14 or 15 months since, a non issue completely.

he's still dealing with a heavy usage daily cocaine problem, but back then it was both.

[Spucky]

Originally Posted by adam7050

amazing sucess! usage was 10-15 Roxy 30's per day
afoaf injected bup shots in his ass for 5 days along with suboxone(from his doctor) for a total of 5 weeks, lowering the dosage slowly down to 1/4 pill for the last 4 days. almost scary how easy it made it.

The SwinyDoc done what?
He shoot you Suboxone IM.?

If so change for another one,
because Subo. contains Stuff like Povidone!

[allisterfan12]

swim used opiates heavily for about 9 to 12 months beginning at once a day and ending at 3 times a day, at the most swim was taking about 120mgs of oxy a day. swim has been clean for about a month and has now tappered down to 4mg of subutex a day, 2mgs in the morn and 2mgs at night. when do you swiys think ill be down with the subs. do you think it os too quick, or should i stay on a little dose for a longer period of time

[adam7050]

not sure if i'm the best one to ask, cause.... we'll swim was using a lot of coke at the same time but only came off the roxys. duration was similar, about 12 months, but very light at 1st, then usage jumped for the 2nd 6 months to 300-450 mg's per day. snorting 2 or 3 (30 mg) blues at a time.

i think the suboxone lasted about 6 weeks, I don;t remember how much the orange octogon tablets are, but for the 1st few days it was a whole in the am and at night. but reducing by half tablet per day probably every 5 - 7 days. If I had stuck to the plan, I could have been down to a quarter twice a day in 4 or 5 weeks. But i did make an error, not realizing how much they were actually working, and stopped after 3 weeks. The margin for error is that if your on for an extra few weeks, it's not going to hurt you. It should go smooth if you cut your dosage by a 1/2 tablet per day, every 7 days. I'd go as low as taking 1/4 once a day for the last week.

gave up the coke a month later, and did good for 4 1/2 months, but almost forgot about the roxies, to where they they were a non issue. maybe cause swim kept thinking about doing coke, any time he had 5 minutes of idle time.

swim has taken breaks from coke, tons of times, 2, 3 months, and week here and there, but the difference in the withdrawal symptoms is too scary to relapse on roxies in case it doesnt go all that smooth next time. He's gonna leave well enough alone.

He's got his hands full with his 2 eight balls per day now(usually 5 or 6 days a week) Thats a whole nother post. good luck

adam7050 added 10 Minutes and 19 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by Spucky

The SwinyDoc done what?
He shoot you Suboxone IM.?

If so change for another one,
because Subo. contains Stuff like Povidone!

Swim didnt mention the 5 days of injections to his doc. Doc only prescribed him the suboxone(orange hexagon looking tablets)

I thought, at the time, (18 months ago) that suboxone and Bupen???? were 2 different things? I'm still not sure.

swim was solely going off the advice and directions from my friend who gave it to me, because it had worked so well for him 2 months earlier.

swim injected it in the meat of his ass. he did it himself. Never was disclosed to doc. Assuming that it helped a lot, cause swim had almost no withdrawal symptoms, and really no cravings? But it's hard to say?

[shahmon]

swim not sure if this is the correct thread to have this question answered so if not can someone please direct swim to a more appropriate thread...today is tuesday and its 8:22 pm. ok so swim took about 120mg of oc on saturday, by sunday night (about 24hrs later) he was beginin to feel w/d symptoms. Realizing he cant go on buying oc to quell w/ds, specially when his tolerance is so high that 120mg barely phases him, swim got his hands on a couple subutex. sunday night ~11pm swim took ~ 4mg of the sub and was able to sleep thru the night and didnt have any w/d. the next day swim took the other 4mg at about 4 o clock in the afternoon. and monday night (technically tuesday morning) at about 1230 am swim took another 2mg of the subutex. swim woke up tuesday and has no w/d and has not taken anymore subutex. Normally by now (without subutex) swim would have already scored more oc to quell the w/ds but swim has not taken any oxy or anything liek that since saturday and has not had any w/d symptoms really besides some mild sweating in his sleep. So swim has a reasonable amount of bupe in his system but hasnt taken any bupe/subutex in about 20 hours. swim is excited to not have used oxy in a few days but is also excited at the prospect of being able to get high again soon ( i know i know :/ should swim wait another 24 hours to take any oxy? how long should he wait so that his next dose of oxy is not a complete waste?? PS swim is attempting to build up a prsonal supply of subutex so that he can gradually space out his OC using more and more untill hopefully he realizes he no longer needs it to enjoy life...BUT swim is not there yet....any information would be extremly helpful and appreciated

shahmon added 224 Minutes and 6 Seconds later...

swim did a rough calculation (using a 24 hour half life on the bupe...swim has a pretty fast metabolism...most substances tend to get broken down in his body really fast..even food goes right thru him) and swim esitmates at this very moment he has about 1mg of the original 4mg (~48 hours ago), about 1.2-1.5mg of the second 4mg dose (~32 hours ago) and about 1mg of the 2mg dose ( taken at least 24 hours ago) SO swim estimates that about ~3.2-3.5mg of the bupe is left in his system at this very moment, swim will prob spend a majority of the next 12 hours sleeping meaning when he wakes up it will have been 36 hours since his last 2mg dose of bupe/subutex thats gotta be long enough right??....Math is not swims strongest subject so please tell swim if he did the half lives wrong...is 3.5mg of bupe gonna block swims receptors for much longer? how much longer? when do you suggest holding off on the oxy dose till? untill w/ds kick in again? will w/ds kick in again? swim has been pretty lucky to skip them in the past somewhat when hes gotten subutex to ween off oxy at critical points in his life or when the habit just got too out of hand

[missparkles]

Weaning off OC with Subutex is like weaning off opiates with opiates. That's why swiy hasn't had W/Ds. Replacing one addictive substance with another is called cross addiction. It enables an addict to believe that he's got less of an addiction than he really has. After all, if he can wean himself off opiates he can't have a problem...right?
Wrong.
The fact the swiy is excited to get high again just shows how deceptive addiction really is, it's not just about physical addiction. Psychological addiction is also a big part of addiction, in swims opinion, the biggest. Why put swiy through the agony of very early W/D for nothing? If swiy can get Subutex/Suboxone use it and deal with the addiction.
Check out DF, see what others have done to convince themselves they weren't addicted. Read how their lives were ruined before swiy gets excited to be clean for 24-36 hours. Swiy knows he has a problem, use this awareness to deal with it, don't give addiction the power to fuck with his life, it really doesn't deserve it.
Above all take care and be safe.
Sparkles.

[shahmon]

look at the title of the thread though lol....subutex for detox?
the subs are all swim has to help this process...swim is not doubting he is an addict he uses the subutex to keep w/d at bay so that he doesnt keep goiung out wasting money on doses of OC that dont do shit for him and so hes not losing sleep for the past 3 nights not sweating profusely, not changing clothes 5 times during the night becuz hes drenched. its been about 36 hours since my last 2mg dose of bupe and i woke up today feeling fine feeling normal not jonesing for more oc. the only reason swim hasnt taken oc in 4 days is becuz of the subutex but his mental addiction and his yearning for that body high might be enough to screw up his streak today he will TRY to hold off as much as possible but doesnt know for sure if he will be able to. its raining all day and he bored and has extra cash thats a perfect strom for swim to use again

[missparkles]

Sorry Sparkles wasn't very clear. She did look at the title and swiy is not detoxing, he's swapping one for another from what Sparkles can see. But if she has it wrong she apologises.
She thinks that swapping one opiate for another as a means to stay non addicted, or be able to control addiction is a silly idea. Suboxone is perfect for getting off of Methadone when someone is quitting. But it is just another opiate. Sparkles has used Methadone, heroin and Subutex in her attempt to "not" be addicted, it didn't work.
Not judging just trying to help is all.
Sparkles.

[Dickon]

Just to correct you Miss Sparkles, buprenorphine is not just another opiate. It is a partial (mu receptor) agonist as opposed to a full (mu) agonist. My cat's very limited experience with this is that it felt subjectively different to "real" opiates; I like dyingtomorrow's choice of "dirty" to describe the feeling. Since it has a slightly different effect it does seem to have a different profile when it comes to tapering off as against, say, methadone. The trouble is there are wildly different views as to what, if any, benefits it has over methadone as a means of detoxing.

[missparkles]

Apologies Dickon. Sparkles was trying to say (not very well) that swi Shahmon was not detoxing. Just using Subutex in place of Oxy, (then switching back again) which will hold him. He won't experience W/D till he stops all opiates (opiate like substances). Just switching from one to the other is delaying the inevitable.
Apologies for any misinformation Sparkles gave anyone.

Sparkles.

[Sib]

SWIM is on sub maintenance for a number of reasons, he was clean for 4 weeks 2 months ago, then his mum died and he relapsed. This was clearly a dangerous situation for SWIM but he was determined to get clean, his doctor was quick to readmit him to hospital and get him on subutex, SWIM could have easily went the other way and used his mums death as an excuse but he reckoned he owed it to himself and his mum to get clean & sober.

SWIMS plan is to taper and be off the sub within 5 months. This time has given SWIM the chance to sort his life out and get a great support network in place, In 4 weeks he has dealt with his grief as best he can, started working again, started his hobbies again including mountain biking and weight lifting, learning guitar, meeting new (clean) friends, getting finances sorted and importantly goes to the hospitals support group and AA, all of which gets the body/mind in shape.

He knows he isn't totally clean, due to still taking a substance but he is living clean and when the time comes to detox he hopes to be ready for it. TBH he hasn't felt this good in a long time even though he was clean last year for 8 months, during that period he mightn't have been using but his life was still unhealthy and needed change, a bit of a (dry drunk).

So SWIM has to disagree that subutex is 'just another opiate' it is, for SWIM, one of many tools he is using to get clean & sober. He also read some peoples accounts of coming off subutex with little to no WD's, he would say this is rare but not unfathomable, fingers crossed

[Spucky]

Just add. a File for a "Tandem-Substitution".
This File is sadly only in German
but it`s easy to understand.

This Case is very relevant for High-Dose Patients in the MMT.
It explain how to jump to Buprenorphin from Methadone via DH-Codein
without the long Taper down until 20-30mg. of Dl-Methadone!

It can be very helpful for pregnant Women,
if there is a specific question feel free to ask!

File is also here: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/loc...33&linkid=7749

[SimonC]

New members pet went to a private GP to try and get Subutex script yesterday after having used it successfully years ago to finally get off habit.

Anyway pet has had a recent relapse, hence looking at this good site for inspiration.

Pet was reluctnat to go to NHS GP.

So pet spent a lot of money seeing private GP and all he got was usual flannel and a script for over almost useless over the counter stuff and some sleeping tabs as pet was told that due to recent new laws on private UK GP presciribing opiate presciptions, after a clamp down on private GP (mainly Harley St).

Pet wants to know if this is true or was GP palming him off? Pet now faces uncomfotable withdrawal, when pet thought that he could buy his way out of the worse of it with a quick Subutex taper.

[Sib]

In SWIMS area N Ireland his GP won't prescribe SWIM much, he always refers SWIM to his drug worker who will be the only one able to script SWIM subutex. This only happens after other avenues have been exhausted, in patient detox with Britlofex and subutex. SWIM understands that his area is rather strict about the use of subutex so SWIM would suggest contacting your health authority and arranging an appointment with a drug worker.

[anabolictrio]

Yesterday night Swim has had some problem going to sleep, it was more due to anxiety then withdrawal.
this morning swim took another dose of subutex. A bit more than yesterday (8 mg.).
Swim feels better than yesterday,very nice mood, relaxed,somehow artificially happy and active.
He doesn't feel the need to use heroin but he is afraid that he could feel that need.
He is doing his best to avoid things that would make him remember those days.
It's important that he keeps his mind occupied: videogames,works,play guitar.... everything it's ok.

[Klaus]

Not wishing to hijack the thread (sorry) But using Buprenorphine with say Dhc is of no use at all yes ?

[freshair1]

The naltrexone is not to help the taper but it is written for swim because he is thought to be (and wants to be)clean.Swim has managed to stockpile some bup. and can therefore use it in secret at the same time as the naltrexone and appear clean before he actually was!As everybody knows this is a difficult business and swim can not always be as honest with those closest to him as he'd like to be!
But now thanks to swiys info swim knows this is a possible strategy post-H.Thanks again!
By the way bup. by itself does not appear to totally block street stuff.

[Forthesevenlakes]

Originally Posted by freshair1

The naltrexone is not to help the taper but it is written for swim because he is thought to be (and wants to be)clean.Swim has managed to stockpile some bup. and can therefore use it in secret at the same time as the naltrexone and appear clean before he actually was!As everybody knows this is a difficult business and swim can not always be as honest with those closest to him as he'd like to be!
But now thanks to swiys info swim knows this is a possible strategy post-H.Thanks again!
By the way bup. by itself does not appear to totally block street stuff.

The buprenorphine can out-compete most opioids for the receptors, but SWIY is right, its not a total blockade. With enough of a competing drug one can override the buprenorphine. However it seems as if much more of another opioid must be used. So SWIM would not advise trying to compete with the buprenorphine by using another drug. Just wait til the buprenorphine wears off. Ahh, SWIM thinks he understands SWIY's situation. Yes, SWIY's strategy would work. Being clean is incredibly difficult, ultimately it can only work if SWIY really WANTS to be clean. Perhaps in SWIY's situation a maintenance program would be best, followed by a taper when SWIY truly wants to get clean? The maintenance program wouldn't get SWIY off drugs, but it would keep SWIY from withdrawing when drugs are not available. Or perhaps an immediate taper would work best, followed by taking naltrexone to prevent a relapse. It's really up to what SWIY wants, just remember that the longer an opiate/opioid run goes, the worse it is to come off of it, and the more lies build up. SWIM is not making a value judgment here, but keep in mind all of the pros and cons about continuing use before making a decision.

[Forthesevenlakes]

Originally Posted by Klaus

Not wishing to hijack the thread (sorry) But using Buprenorphine with say Dhc is of no use at all yes ?

The buprenorphine would probably block the DHC entirely, unless an extremely high dose of DHC was used (not advisable!)

[anabolictrio]

hi all...
I have been away for awhile, I'm quite happy that you you have sticked this post I opened when Swim started Subutex treatment.
Well... it's almost 5 months since when Swim started subutex treatment.
During these months Swim never used Heroin nor other drugs...
Swim don't know if this is a great victory... maybe it was the easiest choice.
It would have been better to take control of his habits before.
Swim did also a drug test every week... and that stopped him from buying heroine at least twice....

At the beginning of the treatment Swim was very faithful and immediately start the tappering.
When Swim reached the 2 mg. dose he realized that he wasn't still ready to quit subutex. So Swim gradually increase his daily dose to 8 mg.
Now Swim is tappering for the second time... swim is on 5 mg.
Swim feel more comfortable, "more ready", Swim think that he will complete the tappering before the end of June.
anyway swim is almost sure that before or after will have a moment of weakness...it could be tomorrow or in a couple of months or years...
so... swim is trying to work on self controll:

if a life addicted to heroine sucks and a life without heroin sucks more... Swim will try to use heroin without being so addicted as Swim was.
Swim hope that he has learned this lesson...
Swim doesn't crave for heroin like he did before...Subutex did a great job.Anyway Swim would like to use it sometimes.
Even if it's wrong, Swim can not tell to his brain what to want....

anyway swim has still one last card to play: opium.
if swim will notice that he can't live without opiates, or that the sadness will be worse then drug abuse, swim will try to kick this habit with real spanish opium.
this may look a nonsense , anyway Swim used Opium for a long long time without feeling addicted to it...

swim doesn't have any other choice... swim feels trapped by the situation.

What would you do at Swim place?

[CLEANINUP]

After Swim had been on 500mgs of Morphine a day for 6 years, the Dr. offered either a treatment of Methadone or Subutex.The plan is to be on a dailey dose for 1 year than slowly taper off in another 6 months. Which is better? Swim has tasted Methadone once and kinda went well with Swim. Which has the least withdrawals? Swim was even offered to start on Methadone and switch later to Subutex. Swim is totally commiting to this program -Swim is finished with illegal Painkillers and its lifestyle!

[dyingtomorrow]

It depends how much you love/need opiates mentally SWIM thinks, which determines which will be better for you.

If you abuse opiates because of depression or unhappiness with life, or if you REALLY LOVE Heroin so much, you should go with methadone. It is a "proper" opiate agonist, and can get the obsession of heroin out of your head.

SWIM is on suboxone, and finds that it is 100% easy to decrease dosage on, but it does nothing for the craving, even after a month of pure suboxone usage (for SWIM at least). It is much easier to get off of than methadone. Lots of people here have posted schedules which can get you clean off suboxone/subutex/bupe within 3 weeks with basically NO acute withdrawal symptoms.