? piperazines in combination with other drugs ?

[joachimist]

I've never tried piperazines (exept viagra once just to see) and i wonder if it is worth the effort (price etc) so i'd like to know more about it.

there are several threads about combinations of piperazines together
but i thought it may be interesting here to talk about combinations of piperazines with other psychoactives such as :

MDMA
amphet
RCs (PEAs & tryptamines)
Ketamine
etc...

any info, trip-report will be welcome

[Thirdedge]

Well, if swim had MDMA, amphet, RCs (PEAs & tryptamines) and / or Ketamine he probably wouldn,t bother adding Piperazines into the mix, as they (piperazines) are a far lower quality drug than the above and hence could add nasty side effects. Also, the after effects of the piperazines may outlast the other drugs, leaving swiy lying in bed in a miserable state unable to sleep.

In saying that swim has tried some PEA,s which were unfortunetly cut with bzp and tfmpp. He still enjoyed the experience, but the next day was hell.
Some of swims friends do take pills containing bzp / tfmpp in combination with mdma to extend the effects, they seem to enjoy but rather them than swim.

[joachimist]

i understand your point of vue
swim was thinking that as combination of piperazines seem to enhance their potency,
maybe a small dose of BZP plus a small dose of MDMA may give a full great effect.

The point is that piperazines doesn't seem to be that much interesant alone, so i was trying to find an interest in that class of chemicals.

But i understand now that people use thoses chemicals because they can't get anything else.

For my curiosity :
if you had the choice betwen :
. . -> 1g of good quality MDMA
or -> 1g of pure BZP + 1g of pure TFMPP
for the same price
which will you choose ? (acording you don't have enough money for both)

Reputation Comments on this post:

No discussion of prices, read the rules

[Euphoric]

Hmmm... Well SWIM has heard naught but bad things about mixing MDMA and BZP, but he's open to hearing other reports. If one does venture into such territory, be very careful about SWIY's water intake. Of course SWIM is thinking of the girl who died of water poisoning from mixing the two and drinking like 10 litres of water in 15 hours. SWIM suspects BZP and amphetamines of any sort or anything that dehydrates, would make for a difficult experience. Most people agree alcohol with BZP is a no no. SWIM was also curious about K and BZP but has since lost her K source. What SWIM has tried in regards to BZP combos is as follows:

BZP + Marijuana = Nice. Usually smoke a J whilst waiting for the pill(s) to kick in, then again throughout the high. Always seems to make it better.

BZP + Alcohol = Meh. Didn't drink much, didn't feel like it. Alcohol seemed redundant and SWIM guesses she had her apprehensions to drinking more due to reports she's read. SWIM doesn't think alcohol could do much to enhance the experience.

BZP + Marijuana + Salvia = Interesting. This wasn't SWIM's first time trying salvia, but it was the first time she felt the effects. For a few minutes things looked pretty strange and SWIM felt strange. SWIM was glad to experience the interesting perspective and will probably try salvia again. SWIM lost all sense of the effects of the marijuana and bzp though, until the salvia wore off. The salvia was intense and overpowering.

If SWIJ has yet to try BZP or a BZP/TFMPP combo on their own, SWIM recommends trying that, just to get a feel for the substance(s), then maybe SWIJ can have a better idea of what combos would please SWIJ.

Depending on where you were and the legality of BZP... well no, SWIM would probably most certainly take the MDMA over the BZP. Simply because it is more amazing. However if it was reported that the toxic effects and longterm effects and other such negative aspects of piperazines were negligible, SWIM might reconsider. But probably not... good MDMA would still win.

If others could share their monkey's experiences with MDMA/Piperazine combos, please do.

Reputation Comments on this post:

nice compilation of experiences

[stjbm06]

Hi there et al!

First post here at this site...

SWIM (Someone Who Isn't Me -- that acronym took a while to figure out) has done EXTENSIVE RESEARCH on the appropriate forums here, and Erowid and Lycaeum, and a plethora of other drug sites (as well as all the experience reports I could find) without much success looking for specific combos and ideas to blend with Piperazines...

Specifically, SWIM is wondering whether SWIY has tried or heard about any combinations with TFMPP or other non-BZP piperazines + anything ELSE OTHER THAN DIFFERENT PIPERAZINES that is legal in the U.S., such as herbs or DXM.

E.g., Has anyone read about combos (that is, any combination of TFMPP, mcPP, MEOPP, etc, without BZP!!) such as the following and their effects?:

• Any Piperazine(s) + DXM (dextromethorphan = active ingredient in cough syrup)
  • DXM trip reports at lycaeum only mention 1 combo with DXM + TFMPP + Methamphetamine (which of course was a bad freaking idea)
    
• Any Piperazine(s) + Salvia
• Any Piperazine(s) + Kratom
  
• Any Piperazine(s) + Ephedra
  
• Any Piperazine(s) + Caffeine
  
• Any Piperazine(s) + Blue Lotus

• Any Piperazine(s) + ANY OTHER HERB, especially empathogens/entactogens????
• Any Piperazine(s) + ANY NOOTROPICS???

Once again, SWIM needs to reiterate that SWIM requires trip reports or suggestions of people who HAVE heard about or tried any of these or similar types of combinations WITHOUT BZP!!

Without experience with any piperazines, SWIM thinks DXM and stimulants like Ephedra, Caffeine, or White Willow (which converts into Epinephrine in the body), or Salvia, or herbal entactogens like Blue Lotus or Kratom, might combine quite nicely with the Piperazine class of drugs...

SWIM also hypothesizes that Nootropics (e.g., Piracetam, Aniracetam, et al) might ENHANCE the effects of Piperazines, and/or prevent any cellular/neuronal damage or headaches caused by them (which many people often complain about).

Basically, SWIM is interested in creating combinations that will mimic or come close to the best effects of MDMA or Tryptamines or Phenylethamines (i.e., possessing empathogenic AND very stimulating AND hallucinogenic properties), and/or be excellent and novel trips (hopefully with lots of visuals and sensory fuxory...

A lack of information about these topics plagues the web -- indeed, most of the trip reports ALWAYS combine Benzylpiperazine (BZP) with other Piperazines (surely why the Feds placed it on the CSA), and the world needs some willing researchers to test these ideas out!!! Once SWIM attains some of these Pips, SWIM will report back on these proposed ideas. But this may be a while. Until then, SWIM needs YOUR HELP!!

Will you accept the challenge???

Peace thru mind-altering,

J

[pankreeas]

Originally Posted by stjbm06

SWIM needs to reiterate that SWIM requires trip reports or suggestions of people who HAVE heard about or tried any of these or similar types of combinations WITHOUT BZP!!

closest swim can come to that is taking mcpp followed by blissfull opiate anelgesia + low dose of caffeine. Bear in mind this was all taken roughly 5 hours after initially dosing on a ratio of bzp 2 to tfmpp 1 to mcpp .25. So bzp was present in bloodstream altho effects had pretty much diminished. Anyways swim was gonna follow up to an earlier post of his on the opiate addition to swingin the pipes, but it may be appropriate here.

Last mcpp was dosed at 25 mg approx 5 hours after first pipes of the day and 45 min before 250 mg of codeine + 175 mg caffeine is taken (yes no oxies or hydros for swim.. he's old school like that..) Anyways a planned attack on his opiate receptors none the less. Which overall made the experience from the first dosing earlier more enjoyable knowing there was more to come. Which is the key to never crashing right? :P keep those varied substances lined up...



t+15 min. Because of method of ingestion (cwe) the codeine is hitting fast and hard. In conjunction with the mcpp it's damn pleasant to say the least.

t+30 min swim smoked some mary jane and had a cigarette and nearly fell asleep outside. Interesting note was that oev's were once again (refering to an earlier post) effected noticebly when smoking cigarettes / weed.

t+1 hr Everything about this combination is much to swims liking and would very much reccommend starting off low, but incorporating some anelgesia into the 9th inning of a piperazine run to get one to home base safely.

*caffeine as always seems to be equalized by the reverse dose of codeine which is not worth removing from a cwe for this reason alone*

t+2hr ready to bed (for real this time)

in closing, piperazines and opaites seem to be a go! in this timing/manner at least AND Seems being the imperative word here.

And if you are one of those people who experience all the ghastly side effects and none of the aforementioned pleasantries of piperazines, i dunno what you're doing reading this but if you are then assume that if you did the same combo you should take the following precautions:

-fire proof your furniture / curtains for when your migraine headache turns into a full on combustion. Sure you'll be long dead, but theres no need to ruin perfectly good furniture (assuming you have furniture and not milk crates stolen from 7-11 at 3:53 a.m.)
-make sure you have plenty of clothes / necesseties next to your bed (a week supply should do) as if you don't self combust, you will feel like that would have been a less cruel fate than sweating out nearly 83% of your bodily fluids from purging of this heinous chemical.

It's all fun guys. don't take anything in the last schpiel without a hcl lick big enough to keep Courtney Love's horse face occupied.

[stjbm06]

This is a bump to the post -- where are people who have mixed Piperazines with OTHER drugs?? What have the experiences been like??

Check out the list of proposed combos above -- what does SWIY think about the possible effects generated from those? SWIM believes Pips and Ethnobotanicals, and/or DXM, might be a phenomenal blend!

Thoughts??

[stjbm06]

Anyone have ANY herbal/ethnobotanical/nootropic + Piperazine combo reports?!?

Please check the list above... SWIM thinks these proposed combos have SIGNIFICANT possibilities for fun!

peace

[Axel78]

Milk thistle. Curcumin from turmeric (curcuminioids). Vitamin C. I can't say what form, but vitamin C has been shown to help counteract the cortisol levels induced by excess stress (which includes piperazines which cause anxiety attacks). SWIM has no experience with BZP, but knows that nicotine is an unsatifactory dopamine trigger and alcohole is unfavorable for digestive/mental reasons. Take some b vitamin complex and C, take some vitamin E from the gamma world, and forget the alpha tocopherol. Love yourself.

If meta chloro doesn't do the trick, try a high carbohyrate (fast entry, high glycemic like jasmine or sushi rice) plus adequate protein meal. But you really should have enough going on to make it "work", if you will.

[stjbm06]

some interesting posts have been made here since swim's last visit.

but let's keep it going!

PLEASE -- someone reply to the proposed blends that swim posted above -- what do you think they would be like? Can anyone be a guinea pig and test them out for swim? Or just your opinions on what the best combo's might be would be cool too!

peace

[pankreeas]

here's a new one swim has discovered. 150 mg of Tramadol (ultram) at about the 3 hour point of a 300 mg bzp dose is extremely nice. As opposed to tramadol by itself or when comined with any other substance.

[skuddo]

Head fuel highs uses Piperzines in combination with other herbal highs, they also do not contain BZP so you can get them legaly in the states. Also there was a pill that mixed Kratom with piperzines (no bzp also) called Speedballs. I never got a chance to try these but i've heard positive reports. Personaly im waiting to get the fund together and im gonna order a kello (2.2lbs) of TFMPP, mcPP, meOPP, aalong with a large veriety of legal highs in bulk(bluelotus, kratom, hawian baby woodrose, sweetflag, 5htp, bitterorange peal exstract, kavakava, ext.). With the goal of designing some intresting combinations for a posible headshop venture me and some friends are talking about.
Because of the CNS receptors these piperzines are active on the potential for some very intresting combinations with legal highs like LSA is deffently there.
When we do our research ill post some of the info here.

[pankreeas]

Welcome Skuddo. Do keep us informed on the progress... but also do get into the habit of using swim or some other acronym to avoid self-incrimination.

[Euphoric]

It is doubtful that one could open a headshop selling legal highs in the states without getting a lot of grief, and probably being shut down and arrested and having illegal drugs planted on the owners, or possibly planted in some "samples" of the shops products, which would make for long jailtime. JK. maybe... But 'twould not be easy, especially for example, if one were selling a product that is for human consumption, that contains LSA... But keeps us informed skuddo.

[Nagognog2]

A friend of Bongo wrote away for his Freedom Of Information Act file in 1992. FOIA folks. He got back many pages all blacked out. But one page had a picture of him on it. And the sales reciept of a belt-buckle pipe he bought at a "Head Shop."

Guess who he had bought the pipe from!

[~lostgurl~]

BZP & Valerian
or
BZP, TFMPP & Valerian

Take SWIY's usual dose of BZP or BZP/TFMPP mix and add 4 grams of Valerian. The Valerian seemed to take the edge off the BZP and also helped with the come down. Most Valerian supplements come in doses of 500mgs, but SWIM found some that had 2g in each pill. SWIMs a sucker for upper/downer combos.

[skuddo]

You just let swim worry about this. swim was telling me that making it look like your company ships/operates from another country isn't that hard. Swim is a very paranoid person and already has a virtual street address in New Zealand. For $30 they forward his mail to him, no questions asked. Swim thinks you should not try and discourage people and there ideas, but rather nutrue there ideas.

[skuddo]

That is $30 a year.

[Euphoric]

By all means, if it can be done do it. SWIM thinks it would be great. Just throwing out warnings for SWIS. Don't want to lose any more nice folks to the prison system.

[skuddo]

it's cool swim was being a little tuchy sissy when he wrote that. Swim hasen't yet secured the funds for this venture, but if all gose as to plan swim would be happy to give you a free sample given the possablity.

[stjbm06]

Is SWIM the only one who is perplexed by Nagognog2's response to the above?? Perhaps it's the 1 glass of wine in swim, but he does not understand.

Skuddo: Yeah, that h*** shop Pipz idea sounds good, but be VERY CAAREFUL. One thinks that it would only take a couple incidents from such a place to cause a US drug prohibition -- version XXX -- on the remaining legal piperazines. Definitely be sure to include notes on safe dosing and be discreet and responsible about whom and how much of such products SWIY sells.




To return to just ONE of SWIM's original post ideas.... How would ALL the psychonauts out there feel about DXM and Piperazine combos??? Swim thinks that this possibility might be VERY cool, stony, floaty, and body high, along with empathy and visuals and altered perceptions that ppl look for in MDMA experiences.... Does anyone see any possible negative physiological/toxic effects??

Oh, and please comment on SWIM's proposed herbal combos with Pipz as well...


enjoy the contemplation....

[Thirdedge]

Piperazines and DXM, Mmmmm, may as well throw in some Cynaide while your at it . . .

Is Swistjbm06 planning to kill people or get them high?

[stjbm06]

Yo Third:

NO, swiy is not trying to kill ppl. YES, he's trying to get them wicked high.

SWIY's comment needs EXPLANATION! Why does SWIY say that? Has SWIY had expereince with recreational DXM? Swim is thinking about low to medium dosages 400 mgs).

Would there be PHYSIOLOGICAL reactions between the two? CNS/brain receptors that would be negatively affected or synergistically damaging? Etc ETC....

Swim needs SOME scientific or at least intelligent discourse on this subject....

ppl who know their chemistry and physiology and other scientific disciplines (even if only a little) respond, as this is not SWIM's area of expertise.


thanks

[stjbm06]

the "low to medium dosage of DXM" above that SWIM is thinking about is about 200-400 mgs.

[Nagognog2]

Mixing DXM with piperazines could easily kill people! Good lord, man! Don't mix stimulants with DXM. Period. That is begging for a coronary! This wins the Worst Idea of the Week Award.