GHB in the media versus the truth

[MrG]

Hi all, first post here and looking forward to hearing some decent opinions and viewpoints for a change.

Anyhoo, SWIM has been doing a *lot* of research recently on GHB and I believe that he and his wife are very interested in exploring this particular substance personally. SWIM is making sure to educate himself fully and feels that so far he has managed to filter out most of the crap. Although SWIM does have a certain level of anticipation not experienced since SWIM first toked a fat one all those years ago.

SWIM has found that there are a number of golden rules when trying to decide what is true and what is a steaming pile of media whipped bullshit. He would very much like to hear if you have any other pointers for him.

So far these rules seems to follow true in proving an internet information source to be a load of crap:

1. If a website purports to be an authority of all things bad about GHB and is run as a commercial, profit making organisation with books, conferences and crap being sold to gullible "concerned parents"

2. If a website, in detailing its opinion on other drugs than GHB, lists marijuana as dangerous and addictive

3. If a website introduces itself to the reader by detailing the harrowing, heartbreaking, "death in dropper" story of their brother/mother/sister/child/friend etc etc

4. Any website that lists Leah Betts' parents as an inspiration (she drank too much much frigging water you retards - she died from ignorance not from E !)

5. Conversely, any website that *only* details positive attributes of drugs and neglects to inform about the need for responsible approaches to substance use (SWIM refuses to use the term "abuse" as he believes it is a subjective opinion)


There appears to be a vast torrent of hysteria led misinformation currently surrounding GHB and SWIM has noticed that a lot of resources that do seem genuine (EROWID) are five years old or more. Is it because the demonisation of GHB has left most people reluctanct to propose an alternative viewoint or, as has been suggested in some articles, people do eventually "wise up" and end up dropping out of the GHB scene altogether?

SWIM would probably feel more confident in exploring GHB if he felt that it is still in relative widespread use and not something that is only being used by a daring few!

Your viewpoints please.

MrG

Reputation Comments on this post:

	great 1st post.
	Welcome to drugs-forum....hope you stick around
	great post

[Alfa]

The demonisation certainly has effect. But at the same time the use of GHB is pretty wide spread. That doesn't say much about the effects though. There are some pretty esoteric substances with excellent effects, while the use of destructive or addictive drugs as DXM and heroin are very wide spread.

The media has been pounding on GHB as the date rape drug, like it is pounding on cristal meth now.

Just FYI: chloral hydrate was the date rape drug, before the media mixed the two up. The media coverage on GHB is directly responsible for many date rapes which have occured on GHB. Unlike chloral hydrate, there is no memory loss with GHB. So if someone passes out from a GHB overdose, the person will be well aware of what happened after consciousness is regained.

GHB is relatively easy to make. This in turn has a lot of consumers making their own GHB. This does not always work out well. Quality of GHB (impurity / incomplete reaction) is an issue which makes the discussion of of the pro's and con's of GHB use more complex.

GHB addiction is a reason for users to wise up at some point, although those with very occasional use of GHB have no need to wise up in SWIM's opinion.

As SWIY has been researching the matter on the net, please share all interesting information which SWIY has encountered, by posting it.

[~lostgurl~]

Originally Posted by Alfa

there is no memory loss with GHB. So if someone passes out from a GHB overdose, the person will be well aware of what happened after consciousness is regained.

This is not necessarily true. If dose was just slightly over maybe, but if dose was double or more, there will be absolutely no recollection of what happened to them while they were unconcious, but for any obvious signs when they awaken ie. no clothes on etc....

[MrG]

One of the problems that SWIM has found is that, like his first foray into non-mainstream substances as a young man, he initially accepted what he had heard and had been told. It was not until the stories surrounding GHB started to get even more outlandish and shocking (young people ingesting paint stripper - gah!) he realised - wait a minute - young people might be reckless but, on the whole, they are not fools.

No-one, and I repeat, no-one will take a substance that WILL kill them or will give them an agonisingly painful experience unless they are seriously off their rocker.

So, it was this dawning realisation that, once again, the demonising of a substance to the unbelievable degree that GHB experienced warranted proper investigation and probably personal experimentation in order to find the truth.

Ergo, SWIM was lied to as a young man about something as patently safe as marijuana (The scales fell from his eyes back then when he realised that those in power could lie so blatently about something and have it believed wholeheartedly by so many) and he suspected that the same held true for GHB.

Now, don't get SWIM wrong, he has no delusions about the need for greater care and education with GHB than was ever needed for marijuana but, as his brief experience with heroin a good few years back showed (he chased it half a dozen times, found it to be a very very nice high, saw the potential for psychological addiction due to how nice it felt and the associated escape from reality and responsibility and, having slayed another bullshit dragon, moved on), he realises that most things on this planet if used incorrectly have a potential for harm.

When SWIM initially was trawling through the misinformation surrounding GHB it all sounded a little like users were having to walk a fine line between dose and over-dose in order to get high. Well, on the basis that the medical use for GHB when treating narcoleptic patients requires doses of AT LEAST 4g in order to induce quality REM sleep allowing the patient to reduce their daytime episodes, it would appear the the opposite it true - recreational users are actually taking less than the standard dose in order to avoid falling asleep and thereby experiencing the enjoyable side-effect of having not actually taken as much as would be prescribed by a medical professional !

The dangers, it would seem, only occurr when GHB is used incorrectly by taking it with downers such as alcohol - a substance that should not be taken alongside most pharmaceutical substances anyway.

Young people are being caught out by GHB, not from their foolishness in using it, but their carelessness in using it recklessly. Something than holds true for ALL recreational substances when mixed with a young mind.

[MrG]

From their own website:

http://www.orphan.com/news.php?id=27

03/06/2006 | Press Release
XYREM® (SODIUM OXYBATE) NOW AVAILABLE FOR THE TREATMENT OF EXCESSIVE DAYTIME SLEEPINESS (EDS) IN PATIENTS WITH NARCOLEPSY
Palo Alto, California, (March 6, 2006) – Jazz Pharmaceuticals announced today that Xyrem® (sodium oxybate) oral solution is now available for patients with narcolepsy who suffer from excessive daytime sleepiness.

Richard Bogan, M.D., Assistant Clinical Professor, University of South Carolina School of Medicine, was an investigator in the clinical studies for Xyrem. Dr. Bogan noted that availability of Xyrem’s new indication is “good news” for patients. “Xyrem is now the first and only FDA-approved treatment for all major daytime symptoms of narcolepsy,” he said. “The fact that patients can take their medication at night and improve their quality of life during the day is a very positive benefit.”

About Xyrem’s Clinical Trials

The effectiveness of Xyrem for the treatment of narcolepsy symptoms was established in four multi-center, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, studies over a period of time between 4 and 8 weeks. The studies examined three dosages of Xyrem (4.5g per night, 6g per night and 9g per night) taken in two equally divided doses (the first at bedtime and the second 2.5 to 4 hours later).

Two well-controlled clinical trials demonstrated that Xyrem at doses of 6g and 9g per night is effective at subjectively (as measured by the Epworth Sleepiness Scale) and objectively (as measured by the Maintenance of Wakefulness Test) improving excessive daytime sleepiness. The Epworth Sleepiness Scale evaluates the extent of sleepiness in everyday situations by asking patients a series of questions. The Maintenance of Wakefulness Test measures latency to sleep onset when patients are placed in a relaxed atmosphere and asked to remain awake without using extraordinary measures. In addition, two well-controlled clinical trials demonstrated that all dosages of Xyrem significantly reduced the frequency of cataplexy attacks. Furthermore, patients on the 6g or 9g per night doses saw significant improvements in symptom severity – with the majority of them rating much or very much improved on the Clinical Global Impression of Change (CGI-C) in Day and Nighttime Symptoms scale.

Xyrem was generally well tolerated and no treatment-related serious adverse events were reported. The most commonly reported adverse events (> 5%) in placebo controlled clinical trials associated with the use of sodium oxybate and occurring more frequently than seen in placebo-treated patients were: nausea (19%), dizziness (18%), headache (18%), vomiting (8%), somnolence (6%), urinary incontinence (6%), and nasopharyngitis (6%). These incidences are based on combined data from three well-controlled clinical trials and two smaller randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over trials (n=655).

About Narcolepsy

Narcolepsy is a chronic, debilitating neurological disease, the primary symptoms of which are excessive daytime sleepiness (EDS), fragmented nighttime sleep, and cataplexy. The hallmark symptom of narcolepsy is excessive and overwhelming daytime sleepiness, even after nighttime sleep. EDS is present in 100% of narcolepsy patients and it causes people to become drowsy or fall asleep, often at inappropriate times and places. Cataplexy, the sudden loss of muscle tone, is the most predictive symptom of narcolepsy. Cataplexy can range from slight weakness or a drooping of the face to the complete loss of muscle tone and is triggered by strong emotional reactions such as laughter, anger or surprise.

More than 150,000 Americans are afflicted by narcolepsy, but fewer than 50,000 are diagnosed. Narcolepsy is as widespread as Parkinson’s Disease or multiple sclerosis and more prevalent than cystic fibrosis, but it is less well known. Narcolepsy is often mistaken for depression, epilepsy, or the side effects of medications.

About Xyrem

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved Xyrem in July 2002 as the first and only treatment for cataplexy in patients with narcolepsy. In November 2005, the FDA approved Xyrem to treat excessive daytime sleepiness in patients with narcolepsy. Xyrem is marketed by Jazz Pharmaceuticals in the United States.

Sodium oxybate, the active ingredient in Xyrem, is a sodium salt of gamma-hydroxybutyrate. Gamma-hydroxybutyrate is a substance with a history of abuse when acquired illicitly and used illegally. Abuse of illicit gamma-hydroxybutyrate has been associated with adverse CNS events including seizures, respiratory depression and profound decreases in level of consciousness, with instances of coma and death.

Xyrem is a Schedule III drug under the Controlled Substances Act and is only available through a restricted distribution system called the Xyrem Success Program®. Please refer to the Xyrem package insert (www.xyrem.com) for full prescribing information.

About Jazz Pharmaceuticals, Inc.

Jazz Pharmaceuticals is focused on helping patients by meeting unmet medical needs in neurology and psychiatry with important and innovative therapeutic products. Jazz Pharmaceuticals is aggressively building its product portfolio through a combination of commercialization and development activities. Based in Palo Alto, California, the company is committed to working closely with patients, patient adv ocacy groups and healthcare professionals.


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So, on the grounds that the above substance is nothing more than GHB repackaged under a different name and prescribed in doses *much* higher than those consumed recreationally, can we then assume that the hundreds of websites purporting GHB to be nothing more than liquid evil spewed from satan's own arse will begin retracting their unfounded hysterical claims?

No?

[Nagognog2]

Just for your future elucidation regards the position we have on drugs on Drugs-Forum: We neither advocate, nor discourage, the safe and educated exploration of one's mind and body through whatever means one should choose. We DO advocate that anyone considering such approaches the issue with the most knowledge obtainable beforehand. We rely on our members to supply truthful and factual information in these regards.

And we all can be thankful for our members to dare to spread the truth.

[snapper]

SWIM can attest to the huge benefits of this substance as a mood elevator, sleep aid, anabolic, and general health tonic. SWIM used it DAILY for over 8 years, and had no withdrawal when SWIM ran out other than insomnia and occasional anxiety (which is what SWIM used it for) and was healthier on it than off. Now SWIM can choose between benzos which have a long hangover or alcohol. SWIM never drank when using G and now finished at least 250 ml off liquor to sleep a night. SWIM wakes up feeling like crap every morning, but would never even get to the sleep part if it were not for alcohol and a number of other things combined with it.
SWIM misses GHB terribly (actually, SWIM liked it as GBL better, but SWIM would not care at this point..) but unless SWIM finds a nice MD, SWIM will probably never see this one again.
Date rapes are primarily performed with ketamine and benzos these days. Both easy to get, tasteless in a drink and the combination effectively creates anmesia and far less chance of death from an OD. SWIM has seen several case reports recently where this was the substance in question. Chloral hydrate, alcohol and other sedatives are also date rape drugs. SWIM remembers many years ago, the RC suppliers all had alpha chloralose on their lists, which is a rat poison that metabolizes to chloral hydrate in-vivo. SWIM never heard of any recreational or therapeutic use of this, unlike GHB.
Given benzos are used in this fashion, they should become schedule 1 next..