Cactus Ban Uk - Resist It!

[Bikelbees]

Hi

It appears certain the the Home Office / Police in the UK are looking to immediately close the net on so-called legal highs sold openly in the UK. As other threads have detailed, at least 2 persons have been busted for allegedly being involved with dried Peruvian Torch Cactus tissue.

Although as far as is known no-person has yet been convicted (however it is being persued in the Crown Ct), the spectre of over the top police raids and seizure of equipment and very serious criminal charges has already become a reality in the UK. Such a situation is terrible given the legal uncertainty that abounds in this area.

Certainly those persons who think it is already illegal in much the same way as preparation of psilocybin mushrooms was shown to be illegal by mere drying need to reconsider. Firstly the UN specified drugs which should be illegal, and at no time were mescaline cacti controlled in the way that cannabis and coca are for example. It follows that the UK was exceeding that UN mandate by previously arguing and accepting that a preparation of dried mushrooms should have fallen under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 which specified psiloybin as a proscribed drug. The UN draw the line at the extraction of anything resembling pure psilocybin, or mescaline and we have to accept that that is on a different order as far as the potential for misuse goes compared with what is involved with consuming a Peruvian Torch. Anything prepared from these plants whether for consumption or not should be therefore be legal (short of attempting to isolate the active ingredient).

It was the total failure of that old case law to be sustainable, namely to allow the totally open sale and taxation of a product which became a Class A drug by mere preservation which logically would have led to the outright ban. It follows now that the Courts should be reluctant to apply such arbitrary and as far as the UN goes, excessive controls to cacti plants, unless of course a complete ban is brought in by the democratically elected govt. Anyway, arbitrary arrest of alleged suppliers is akin to ban.

I hope subscribers to this forum will generate interest in saving cacti from this impending ban and to support the accused. Any ideas welcome. I think its about time in this so-called multicultural era we re-assert the importance of freedom of religious conscience and practice, which naturally must include shamanism.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good post!

[Paracelsus]

Originally Posted by bikelbees

I hope subscribers to this forum will generate interest in saving cacti from this impending ban and to support the accused. Any ideas welcome. I think its about time in this so-called multicultural era we re-assert the importance of freedom of religious conscience and practice, which naturally must include shamanism.

As far as I know, the "excuse" with religious freedom works only if your religion is recognized officially. If you have declared Salvia Divinorum as a sacrament of your cult and it was still legal at the time, future legislation changes can't get you from taking your sacraments. I think I read something in "Legal Highs", there's a church called "Tree Of Life" or something, in California. Lots of legal highs are part of its doctrine. Does anybody know if it still exists? Cause "Legal Highs" is from '73.

SWIM has been seriously thinking about founding such a cult but then he found that it would attract too much attention.

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[Bikelbees]

I know that holding out as a religion didn't help Rastafarianism with cannabis. Basically as everyone knows, people have been doing these things for millennia before the de-legalisation of it. I don't think its good enough to go along the I'm in a cult/religion. I'm all for people getting "off" their charges but it ends up with people trying to play this dangerous game with the law and end up just shooting themselves in the foot. These so-called legal loopholes will be closed around their necks just as soon as they stick 'em out. My position is that ShamanWIM should be able shun all attention and choose to discuss and participate with whosoever he likes under the umbrella of self-discovery, religious growth on his own or in any group or organisation - and in order to do that at the very least have full access to any plant or plant materials.

[Sky Walker]

No no no! Dammit no! This is it, foot down, something has to be done or these bastards are eventually gonna ban all legal highs. Someone, anyone please tell me what needs to be done to stop this from happening, something effective that I can really do! Grrrr I haven't even tried cactus yet and they already want to send us to jail, NO!

[Paracelsus]

There is not much we can do, except alerting the public about the immorality of illegalizing sacraments. When the public will understand more about this topic, politicians who tend to illegalize will become more and more unpopular, and other politicians will jump on the train and be more liberal about this. Providing FACTS and proving that most of the government's drug info is lies is the best we can do, and everyone can do this by himself.

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[Alicia]

Once again with mushrooms now with beloved cacti they wont learn will they lol.. Yes something must be done.. Else once again innocent people who just want to indulge in something of there own wonder will be treated like criminals again by unjust and stupid laws.

[turkeyphant]

I can't see how the authorities can ever prove intent to consume. I certainly can't see a ban on fresh cacti.

Have you got any links to articles reporting on these busts?

[Alfa]

UK: Customs and dried mescaline cacti raid

[Nature Boy]

It seems that the UN is the ultimate paradox in regards to stance on natural highs. Marijuana is strictly forbidden and the UN state this clearly, however when a nation decides to ban something which the UN does not warn against, they take no steps. It's like the UN is the blanket that suffocates any country wishing to have an independent drugs policy whereas the individual nations are just creating extra hassle by considering banning substances for no other reason other than because they may be recreational or addictive in their very loose use of the word.

[Paracelsus]

My country has banned some RC's for the same reason. Just because they are recreational. 2C-I, 2C-T-7,2C-B, DET, DMA, TMA, all that shit. Without real motives. Just because they are "psychotropic".

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[Evil GIR]

I stand here defient to the uk laws, they might as well shoot me in the head NOW. Because I will never stop injesting mind altering plants, its my body god dam it and i can do with it as i please as long as never harm another being.

Now what we realy need is a campaign that is going to last and be continuess in the public eye. We dont need is for it to fizzle away and be forgot about like the recent mushroom changes. Speaking of which has anyone actualy heard the bullshit there promoting to stop people from picking ?????? something to do with pesticies wtf!!


Anyway I am now truly just geting sick of haveing my rights shit on and well I seriously want to start a campaign to de-rail all of the goverment so called war on drugs, with education, pollitics, keeping the subject in public view continuessly, using science, radio, tv, internet, music, confrences, putting up flyers every where, posting leaflets, handing out leaflets.

We need to be a thorn in there side, though to do this we would need to give up drugs for a long time. As we dont want to give them a reason to shut us up.

I am in lets get organised !

Reputation Comments on this post:

great post...let just do it!

[turkeyphant]

Originally Posted by dib

I stand here defient to the uk laws, they might as well shoot me in the head NOW. Because I will never stop injesting mind altering plants, its my body god dam it and i can do with it as i please as long as never harm another being.

Follow and support Casey Hardison's case. He's been taking very interesting stances in opposing drug laws...

[Paracelsus]

I really admire you for your initiative, dib.
Really, I will sacrifice some hours tonight to look up information to use for flyers and maybe do the design for them. I think if somebody gives a real strong kick the snowball will start rolling.
I would take my country's drug situation as an example: there's shitloads of drug users over here, but not a single one harm reduction website or something similar. The drug users consider themselves outlaws and rebels but don't do anything. If we would actually approach the government's incompetent drug policy it would be a great start.
This reminds me that I have once wrote an essay against the politica of my government's anti-drug association (A.N.A.). It's unfinished, but I'll finish it. Soon.
Okay I guess I'll just go to work now. see ya l8er guys

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[Paracelsus]

ok all you people, i did something like a scheme of what is in my plans (i am collecting material for a harm reduction project since a long time ago but dib gave me the motivation to get to work again and do something):

1.Flyers
simple, black-and-white flyers, no complicated stuff.
a couple of interesting statements (like 2-3 facts about one kind of drug and then rumors about the same drug spread by the government) to attract attention
a rhetorical question to make the reader access the website.
an interesting photo
website URL
2.Website
General information on various drugs
Type
Effects
Dosage
Precautions/Contraindications/Dangers
Experience reports
Legal situation
A myth vs. truth section
A harm reduction section
random advice about drug usage
what to do in case of a bad trip
what to do if OD-ed
PR section
responses to government and media criticism (if needed)
petitions
[Other possible sections] - a link to D-F of course

By getting a couple of like-minded friends to get the flyers spread, the site will have definitely some success as it will most likely be one of the first pro-drug sites in this country.

If the site will have success, the media will react and write some articles about this site. By responding to those in the PR section, even more attention could be attracted.

I love the snowball effect...

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[SPWIM]

Damn, I'd better stock up on everything that's legal that I haven't already tried. I also think a Peyote would look pretty on my window sill so maybe I'll get one of those and it'll look even prettier by the time I'm middle aged.

[Paracelsus]

Originally Posted by SPWIM

Damn, I'd better stock up on everything that's legal that I haven't already tried. I also think a Peyote would look pretty on my window sill so maybe I'll get one of those and it'll look even prettier by the time I'm middle aged.

Better get San Pedro. By the time when SWIY will be middle aged he will have a plantation in his basement . Yeah the stocking up is a good thing to do, SWIM is doing it at the time, because his country will join the EU on January 1st, 2007 and drug laws could possibly change...

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[SPWIM]

I think I'll try to improve my chemistry skills. I want to make San Pedro pie but first I need to remove all that icky mescaline so people don't get sick. I know there's a very good guide on the appropriate forum.

[turkeyphant]

Get peyotes and san pedros and do some splicing. There's something lovely about eating pie made from cacti you've nutured to maturity yourself.

[SPWIM]

I did study some of what was sold as dried San Pedro once. I was sick of the study before the end of it, it gave me an awful headache and when I'd finished I wasn't enlightened at all. I was probably studying bits of tree bark. I think if I carry out a further study before any cactus ban I'll make sure I'm getting what I think I am.

[Riconoen {UGC}]

pretty soon legal highs will consist of paint thinner and gasoline....

[Paracelsus]

Originally Posted by SPWIM

I think I'll try to improve my chemistry skills. I want to make San Pedro pie but first I need to remove all that icky mescaline so people don't get sick. I know there's a very good guide on the appropriate forum.

What will SPWIY do with the extracted mescaline? Of course it will need to be discarded properly. A very safe way to do this is by letting SPWIYs body metabolize it, by ingesting it orally. then enjoy your san pedro pie

[SPWIM]

I think I'd buy a tamagotchi and feed it the mescalinr just to make sure it doesn't poison anyone.

[Bikelbees]

Thanks for making this seem possible, I feel inspired by Casey's (genius)articulation of "cognitive liberty". This is so important that it deserves its own thread http://www.lsd25.20m.com.

[Bikelbees]

How can anyone be charged with cactus offences when the only precedent is for the conviction of a sadist whom sexually assaulted a woman with a cactus I mean ignorrance of the law is supposedly no defence, but in this case the ignorrance is the fault of the Home Office - their ASK FRANK hopeless site doesnt even mention cacti or even mescaline on any site search. They have repeatedly advised sellers when prompted to eludicate on their position and where the law stands that the sale of cactus material is fine as long as it doesn't contain any instructions. Knowing the total stupidity of this dangerous rule; sellers labelled plants "as not for consumption". This certainly protects them against persons claiming that they were poisonned or compromised in some way by consuming it. However, the CPS seek to show by overall context that there is an intention to sell it for consumption, this may include comments made between persons about doseage or other comments pertaining to useage recovrred from seized computers etc. Anyway, what a mad law, you could legally sell anyone some peyote plants or some Ecuadorian black vine, but you can't tell how to use it.

[Paracelsus]

this applies not only for entheogens, but for most "legal" highs. Simple posession without intent to consume is perfectly legal, but consumption is highly illegal.

Some examples of grey areas:
-GBL is sold over the net as solvent/metal cleaner/grafitti remover, with no hints about recreational usage
-Methylone, where it is still legal, is sold as a room odorizer
-Most unaltered plant material is legal, no matter what it contains (except weed, opium, etc.)
-Magic Mushroom spores are sold for microscopic research (the world is full of hobby mycologists, trust me )
-could think of many other examples but really have to get some sleep.

EDIT: btw this is my #200 post
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