hydrocodone tolerance

[ironmics]

Swim's opiate tolerance drops much quicker than months. He's seen huge differences in just 2 weeks or so.

[Forthesevenlakes]

sorry to hear about your SWIM, kevip. That sounds awful and it has to be frustrating to not be able to have much physical activity when everything causes pain. If swiy did manage to quit are there ways swiy thinks he could control his pain? This may be worth starting a thread on (maybe in the recovery section?) to see what others could suggest.

[mickenator]

I know your pain swikevip as Iam in constant pain from various places and is currently taking DHC to try and control the pain. I would like you be glad to be able to stop these meds but during the week whilst at work they have become part of my staple diet, otherwise the pain starts to take over. My DR has given me a steroid injection to try and relieve one of my problems so I have too spend the rest of the weekend resting while this takes effect. But please post again if you manage to find any alternatives to these addictive drugs I would be interested to hear.

[kevip7]

Mikenator, Swim doesnt know of any alternatives. Swim has had many of those injections and they suck, extreme pain for 2-3 days before they really help. Swim still waiting for latest test results on one of his conditions. Swim thinks he may have Pagets disease along with all the nerve problems he has already. What is DHC? Anyway swim is pleased with what he is prescribed today. It allows him to cut down on his own with out the risk of w/d from one or the other drug. There is only drug I am prescribed in two different forms so it makes it a bit easier to stop one or the other or at least cut down and eventually quit. Before swim was prescribed Fently or Morphine with Hydro which made it impossible to cut down. My suggestion is to get on one drug for pain and then slowly cut down. Thats what this swim is doing and its working. Swim though is having to do this very slowly as he cannot take big changes, very gradual is the only way he can do it. If doc will allow I am talking about weeks of gradual cut down. Before doc had him switching cold turkey different drugs which really was a bit dangerous and painful, bad w/d's. Swim now has appetite back, not as lethargic and can function a bit better now. It is hard to cut down as the urge to cheat a bit comes up from time to time. Kinda like taking one day off from pain and taking a mini vacation. Next day though back to reduced level and the slow process of cutting down again. Hopefully at some point swim is fixed so there is no need to take this crap anymore for phycial pain, swim can cut down slowly without having to have increased pain from the injuries and can only worry about minimizing w/d pain.. The drugs swim is on is Oxy 40mg twice a day and Hydro up to 10 10/325 a day. The drugs are basically the same so it allows for cutting back without having to worry about a w/d from some other drug that is given for break out pain or controlled release pain. Hope this info helps a bit, all depends on what works for you. Swim had bad reactions to some of the other pain meds out there and hydro works best for him with the least amount of side affects.

Reputation Comments on this post:

you add to the discussion on these threads quite well. thanks for sharing swiy's experiences.

[monkeygone2heaven]

hi there, sorry to hear about pain. it's swim's reality too.

is there a way you can administer opiates non-orally but locally for your kind of pain? that would mean pain relief but you can use much less. like a morphine pump or intrathecal otherwise? i remember that was one of the options swim was presented with (but then the pain was localised).

Reputation Comments on this post:

nice idea even if it wouldnt work. also this is good karma for many other posts.

[Forthesevenlakes]

Not sure that a local administration of opiates would work. Opiates don't block pain at the site of the pain, or even the spinal cord. They block awareness or concern for the pain in the brain itself. So into the bloodstream is essentially as local as opiate administration can get. Morphine pumps are used in hospitals, but they allow the patient to titrate their doses of morphine without having to call for a nurse. they don't deliver the morphine locally to the site of IV.

SWIMonkey's idea isnt a bad one, but unfortunately it wouldnt work. Which is too bad, a local administration of opiates would build tolerance much slower...

[kevip7]

Interesting idea, swim cant stand morphine though. Swim wonders if you could crush it up and shoot it. Not that swim would do that but would it work? How about oxy? Swim has broken oxy in half and taken it and it makes no difference in its affects. Swim read that this would cause it to be absorbed immediatly and be dangerous but swim didnt get any benefit or any change in the feeling it had. Maybe you have to actually crush it all up?? Anyway sorry about your pain monkey, swim is in the same boat, pain meds dont even work that well on nerve pain too..

[Hlucn8]

If swiy is talking about Oxycontin, it really cannot be safely injected. It is possible, but far too dangerous if swiy mucks up the process, best not to try. As far as IR and CR goes, (continuous release vs. instant release), crushing Oxycontin will just change CR into IR, then its just a matter of how big an immediate release dose swiy can handle.
And remember, tell him to treat her with respect, Wonderful lover, sadistic mistress.

[kevip7]

Nah swim is not crazy.. whats the tale line all about??

[Hlucn8]

Originally Posted by kevip7

Nah swim is not crazy.. whats the tale line all about??

Was that a question for me? Are you referring to my signature?

[kevip7]

Yeah, we are square.. got your message.. hopefully I didnt offend you in my response, I do have respect for your people, just none for the ones that send you there for no reason. If was up to me, Libertarians or whatever should run this country and make everything legal.. wouldnt that be nice, I even read that they may make Las Vegas mary jay legal.. not something that I like but a step in the right direction... it does help alot for w/d symptoms, wife doesnt buy it to much though.. Rummy forced out so maybe some changes that will bring some friends home safe..

[Hlucn8]

Swim has mixed feelings about Iraq. Saddam was a bully,... A murderous bully, and needed to be dealt with, but timing/method, the way the U.S. went about it and still going about it in general is starting to piss swim off. Swim has been "over there" more than once. Regardless of the over-all impression those who have not "been there, done that", swim will never let those opinions detract from the fact he still feels good about what he accomplished, and the way he conducted himself, regardless of how he feels about his boss and the decisions he made.

[kevip7]

He was, the latest report though states that more of them were killed after the invasion then what Saddam did.. and he is to hang for this? I think GW should join him in the gallows. I hope all your friends make it back ok, believe me I know its hell over there, I have been shot at and shot myself but nothing like what it must be like over there. I cant imagine a IED and what it does.. at least I could see what was coming. I watched the HBO special on the operating room drama and could almost cry. It just stired my anger for those who sent you there to steal oil and get back at a man for trying to kill elder Bush.. big business is making a killing there too which infuriates me even more.. Anyway my political beliefs are not that mainstream so before the FBI raids my house I better shut up..

[monkeygone2heaven]

hi Forthesevenlakes, thanks for your reply and information.

actually, there are morphine pumps which are implanted for patients who have focal pain like only in R foot. the pump delivers the morphine to the level of spinal cord which connects to the body part though (so you are right aboutt that). and as you said this is much more efficient than releasing it to the bloodstream (either orally or via injection).

here are a few FAQ's
http://www.reddinganesthesia.com/itpump.htm
http://home.inreach.com/doodle/shtml/morphine.htm

a more exciting development is actually delivering the opiate to the peripheral nerves themselves through a microthin "needle" that runs throgh the nerve axon... i saw the paper in about 2004.. i don't think it's clinically available yet although i can check. except i can't remember what the procedure is called...

another similar solution for some kinds of pain is a neurostimulator. no opiates, just the level of the spinal cord which the pain is localised (e.g. leg or arm) is electrically stimulated.

intrathecal pumps or electrical stimulators don't work on all patients and require a trial device to see if a patient would benefit from surgery/implant but they can be a source of long term or peranent pain relief. swim personally knows someone who got pain relief (from completely dysfunctional to wwalking, working etc) with a stimulator. she still uses dilaudid though but much less.

so for any chronic pain patient i'd recommend discussing this with your doctor or getting a referral to a pain clinic -- worth checking out, really. it can help eliminate or control opiate tolerance.

swim is no longer a candidate for these since her pain is no longer localised... (

cheers!

[csharpprogrammer]

Originally Posted by monkeygone2heaven

hi Forthesevenlakes, thanks for your reply and information.

actually, there are morphine pumps which are implanted for patients who have focal pain like only in R foot. the pump delivers the morphine to the level of spinal cord which connects to the body part though (so you are right aboutt that). and as you said this is much more efficient than releasing it to the bloodstream (either orally or via injection).

here are a few FAQ's
http://www.reddinganesthesia.com/itpump.htm
http://home.inreach.com/doodle/shtml/morphine.htm

a more exciting development is actually delivering the opiate to the peripheral nerves themselves through a microthin "needle" that runs throgh the nerve axon... i saw the paper in about 2004.. i don't think it's clinically available yet although i can check. except i can't remember what the procedure is called...

another similar solution for some kinds of pain is a neurostimulator. no opiates, just the level of the spinal cord which the pain is localised (e.g. leg or arm) is electrically stimulated.

intrathecal pumps or electrical stimulators don't work on all patients and require a trial device to see if a patient would benefit from surgery/implant but they can be a source of long term or peranent pain relief. swim personally knows someone who got pain relief (from completely dysfunctional to wwalking, working etc) with a stimulator. she still uses dilaudid though but much less.

so for any chronic pain patient i'd recommend discussing this with your doctor or getting a referral to a pain clinic -- worth checking out, really. it can help eliminate or control opiate tolerance.

swim is no longer a candidate for these since her pain is no longer localised... (

cheers!

I was under the impression that opiates acted on opiate receptors in the brain to alter the perception of pain. So what I get from your post is that morphine can be used as a LOCAL anaestetic? If that is correct, is there any euphoria or other opiate effects noticed? And also is there a potential for tolerance?

[monkeygone2heaven]

Originally Posted by csharpprogrammer

I was under the impression that opiates acted on opiate receptors in the brain to alter the perception of pain. So what I get from your post is that morphine can be used as a LOCAL anaestetic? If that is correct, is there any euphoria or other opiate effects noticed? And also is there a potential for tolerance?

that's correct - the local anesthetics should not cause psychological effects like taking them orally would as they act on the pain site and not brain. imagine the lidocaine shot at the dentist, you get numbing and loss of sensation in a local area but don't get a high. the goal is similar. if the pain is focal, you can infuse the local pain receptors. the downsides are possible toxicity as with any anesthetic. i do believe tolerance can develop as opiates lead to tolerance in neurons and the peripheral or spinal neurons can adapt to the dosage over time. but since typically much lower doses are taken overall, tolerance would also develop at a slower scale.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Answered my question.

[Forthesevenlakes]

thats fascinating, didnt know that was even possible! thanks for presenting that info.

[Blur]

Sounds typical to me. Started off getting high on 20 mgs of norco. Within 6 months of regular usage SWIM was up to 3-400 a day (it was cleaned (not CWE)). After that heroin. Involuntary detox, suboxone, etc etc.. Err, to answer your question, SWIM has been off everything for about 2 months and nodded on about 100 mg of norco a few days ago. SWIM doesn't know how much hydro corresponds to a 5 day a bag habit (quite good quality) of heroin, but 2 months off lowered his tolerance quite a bit. SWIM don't plan on watching how fast it will shoot up again. SWIM *hopes* hes washed his hands of it.

[kevip7]

Swim I know says only a few days can lower tolerance, but it wont last long maybe few days. For real tolerance lowering it would be weeks if not months. Involantary detox does not sound like fun.. Swim I know volantarily went in once for this and nothing was done, cold turkey and almost prison like atmosphere. Swim had to pay for thousands for this torture, Swims opinion is these places should be shutdown or changed as they are scams ripping off insurance companies and hurting people not helping.. The swim I know got out as fast as possible as they offer no help whatsoever.. Anyway goodluck to anyone getting free..

[kevip7]

Swim was recommended a spinal stimulator. Looks like a pace maker device surgically implanted. Swim didnt like this idea to much, plus swim works around electric sensitive devices and travels a great deal. Swim is very mobile just has to pay the price for any phycially active stuff he does during and after being active. Any info on the device is appreciated, swim is tempted to due the trial as dependance on these meds is so bad now that swim doesnt know which is worse now, the pain or the w/d pain swim gets every morning until swim doses are consumed. Swim feels like the drugs dont work and takes them just to feel normal and keep from being sick from them. Swim cant live like this forever as its killing swim physically and mentally. Swim is also given the exact amount daily so swim cannot take more one day if he needs it without taking less the next day to make up for the lost pills. Basically swim is in pain all the time from the injury and the w/d from the drugs. Horrible life to live, but swim lives it and can manage to actually get to work.. weekends are actually worse than work days.. enough complaining, let me know all info on this stimulator thing if you have it and if there are more than one type of one.. swims injury is right outer thigh from hip down to the knee, not sure if this device can target this area

[kevip7]

I have read this same article.. as for swim, swim gets no pleasure from opiates at all anymore.. just normalcy and taking away w/d pain, no effect at all anymore on the original pain that it was needed for..