Yogis and drugless highs

[Euphoric]

SWIM was thinking about some things he's heard about yogis and others who are well practiced in the art of meditation. Something striking was in regards to their capabilities of controlling internal functions, like slowing down heart rates and changing the temperature (blood flow?) to specific parts of their bodies. SWIM has heard of Tibetan monks who as a test must go to a mountain top with nothing but their basic monk attire and survive the biting cold only with the help of mental concentration to keep their bodies warm. He has also read of men in India who would bury themselves in the sand for months at a time, lowering their heartbeats to ridiculous levels. Another example of internal control SWIM can think of is selective regurgitation, like swallowing somethings, and then choosing something specific to bring back up.

Anyways, this made SWIM ponder some things. For example, could one learn to trigger an acute serotonin dump? Stimulate the pineal gland? Basically do the things drugs do, minus the drugs?

Any thoughts/theories? Has anyone been able to do similar things? Can anyone recommend a place to start learning about such meditation/self-control techniques?

Thanks

[djama]

It should be recognized that there is not one single pathway for drugless highs. Many yogic techniques involve pushing the body and mind to extraordinary limits where entrenched routine processes simply breakdown, eg extreme: fasting, physical and psychological effort.

Also a great many of the apparently mind blowing control abilities are actually due to hypnotic techniques (most people would have seen someone under hypnosis become a human bridge and support extraordinary amounts of weight which would be completely impossible in a normal state). These abilities are not super-natural they are hypnotic.

It is important not to be taken in by the showmanship of many so-called spiritual practices.

[augentier]

One of my buddies from Lebanon, who is not all that experienced with drugs at all, smoked a crapload of Egyptian and Lebanese hash and he said if he felt a dull pain somewhere in his body, he was able to concentrate on that sensation and actually direct it around the body to different points. If his finger ached, he'd move the pain to his foot, then to his back, etc.

These monks, shamans, etc are disciplined enough to put their minds in a state similar to what drugs produce and from there they are able to really focus & concentrate on the inner workings of the body.

[Nicaine]

Bliss/euphoria is easy enough to encounter, typically involving stoppage of the normal thought process and/or loss of identification with a personality/ego, possibly even loss of fixed location in time/space. Of course, this can't really be sought as a goal in itself, i.e. to get high... it doesn't work like that.

[Euphoric]

Originally Posted by Nicaine

Bliss/euphoria is easy enough to encounter, typically involving stoppage of the normal thought process and/or loss of identification with a personality/ego, possibly even loss of fixed location in time/space. Of course, this can't really be sought as a goal in itself, i.e. to get high... it doesn't work like that.

Please elaborate In terms of what goals one would aim for and by what means these feelings can be achieved.

[Nicaine]

I'll leave it up to you to research -- some keywords to plug into Google:

nonduality
advaita
zen

Also see the wikipedia definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonduality

That should be enough to start some research, enjoy .

P.S. don't get too caught up in definitions, split hairs and such (the wikipedia entry is particularly guilty of that). After looking into the whole thing, an intuitive feel seems to develop for what it's about.

[Solidly-here]

A Euphoric High . . . it means something different to each person.

The way it works for me is: I create a Dream World. In this World I think of happy things -- happy things I have done, happy things I can do, and being happy doing what I am doing.

One aspect of this on-again-off-again World can be, I am less interested in analyzing things.
I look at a Tree.
I "forget" that it's a Tree. Instead it is a tall, beautiful thing; some of it is brown...
Then there are lovely flat green things forming a dome over the brown part.
This opens up the World of Wonder, and gets me past not paying attention.


I pretend to be a child.
A child will get completely absorbed in a task.
There is nothing in the World, except this Fun thing.
Then, Poof! I see another thing.
The first thing is totally gone.
THAT new thing becomes the object of all of my attention.
That new thing is wonderful.
Then, Poof. I move on . . . and on.

With 100 of these little "games" to play, I can take a portion of a day, and feel like I am smoking the best Pot in the World.

In fact, whatever I am doing CAN become a game.
When I am doing something FUN anyway, I might as well turn it into a game.
I have noticed that when I do this, I can more completely Concentrate on what I am doing.
This moves the rest of the World (including my fears, worries, and self-consciousness) to a place where I do not see them.
Then I am free to be ME. And since I am having Fun anyway, my level of Fun goes up 50% (or even 200%).

I can use this extra Concentration (which comes from my interest in doing it), to do a good job of performing what I am doing.
Take, even, doing the dishes (usually not fun, at all):
I pick up a dirty plate.
I watch the cleansing water wash over the plate.
Some of the gunk starts to melt, and go away. (Oh good, less cleaning is needed).
I take the scrubber; it's soft on one side, and coarse on the other.
"Now I will thoroughly scrub-off this plate, and make it pristine again."
Scrub ... Scrub ... Mmm.
Now to use the cleansing water again. Whoosh.
There goes the soap (and the gunk), swirling down the drain.
Wow! A clean plate. I did a good job. I am proud of my job.
As I set the plate down to dry, I can bask in a job well done.
I pick up another plate (which needs me to help it get clean).
I hold it under the running water ... ...

This example is of something which could, very easily, become a toil.
But because of living in a drug "High" ... I transform it into a task I am excited to do.

A lot of Life is like that.

If I convince myself (or, fool myself) into thinking that I am doing a FUN thing, it IS Fun.
If I convince myself that what I am doing sucks ... then it DOES suck.

Up until recently, I lived a Life where most of what I did sucked (the REAL World).
These past couple years, I live a good-sized piece of my Life pretending that I am having FUN.
It is hard work to pretend.
Yeah, but Knowing that I'm doing something that sucks, makes it hard work too.
I (when I am thinking clearly), invest the effort to have Fun.
I wish I could live in my Dream World 70% of the time.
But, heck, even 1% of the time is great (my drug-free High times).

This works very well when I am doing something that IS Fun anyway.
I tell myself: This is the MOST Fun you are going to have today.
This realization helps me savor this Fun time ... enjoy it more.
Then, the intensity of Fun-ness rises, and it helps bless the rest of my day.

As I began to Meditate, I discovered my Dream World.
I Meditated frequently for several months.
After I learned how to Turn-on my Fun times, I eased back.
Now, it is more about Contemplation.
Several days a week, I sit on the porch and think about all the different things I could do that day.
As I think of each thing, it is (somewhat) like doing it.
Then I narrow-down my choices, and decide which ones to do today.
I (try to) think of a positive reason to do each agenda item.
I imagine doing it: What to say, what to do.
Then, I have done it already.
When I actually do that thing, it probably won't turn out as wonderful as I imagined it.
But so what? It worked real good the FIRST time I did it.
And, as I do it ... I can live in deja vu: "Gee, haven't I done this?"
This keeps a little mystery going, and potentiates my Dream World.

My small Life can become pretty BIG, one Fun thing at a time.
_______________________________

And, as far as doing the Super-human things that practiced Yogis can do ...
Practice ... practice ... practice. (They had to spend years perfecting it, themselves.)

I have learned to control my breathing. I can breathe 5 slow-and-easy breaths a minute for 20 minutes.
I didn't learn it all at once. I experimented.
I created a Dream World, where that is Possible.
After all, if someone else can do it, I can copy it too.

I saw a show where people were learning how to control their Blood Pressure.
It was a Bio-feedback technique. They could see their Blood Pressure on a CRT.
As it went up 2 points, they could watch it go up.
When it went down 2 points, they saw that too.
I took a month, and did it myself, just watching a Blood Pressure cuff.
At one point, I could raise (or lower) my Pressure 10 points in less than a minute.
All things are possible.

Take Circus performers, for instance. They do things which seem impossible (like walking on a Tight-wire).
Someone teaches him how to do it. A little practice. A little timing. A little confidence. Suddenly, he's out on the wire.
More practice, and he starts dancing on the wire. The wire is his friend. It's FUN.

Any Super-human thing you attempt:
1) Believe it is Possible to do;
2) Practice doing it as an experiment (so failure doesn't matter);
3) Pay close attention, to realize when you are actually doing it (a little bit);
4) Cheer yourself along: Little improvements are BIG;
5) Confidence builds. And confidence can move mountains.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for taking the time to share. However it just doens't hold true to me.

[geezaman]

SWIM has no belief that he could survive on a frozen mountain top by power of thought, but can cool his hands, arms, feet, and, legs, he can also slow his heart beat slightly. he does this through what he would best describe as a mix of concentration/will power/belief. Having no part of the body touching another part greatly helps and makes this easier. SWIM cannot always do this he has to be comfortable relaxed and be able to concentrate. SWIM can also move his ears.

SWIM believes that we can all control our body's in such ways and would not completely disbelieve the possibility of levitation or other practices considered to be imposable/un-natural, its just learning how to control that specific part. If someone were ordered to move they're ears and didn't know how, they most likely could not, but if they learned how they could

[Euphoric]

How does one learn how to move their ears? And other such feats?

[geezaman]

SWIM cannot speak for other such feats though has a friend who can move her toes individualy with great controll. With regards to moving your ears SWIM learned by noticing when they move anyway as part of another action (many other animals do it to) then break down the individual parts of that action eventually you can identifie what exactly makes that bit of you move, the more you perform just that. the easier it becomes, the more pronounced it becomes and the more controll you have.

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for sharing