Should SWIM quit stimulants?

[Nicaine]

After plugging propylhexedrine hydrochloride the other night, SWIM found himself actually craving propyl tonight for the first time. He went out of his way *not* to do any tonight, although he's not ruling out the possibility of one more time this weekend (depends how he feels).

Edit -- SWIM is still purposely avoiding stimulants, and has not acquired any propyl or anything else (see 'last edited' date/time). The temptation has certainly been there. He's specifically planning NOT to do any stimulants for the forseeable future. Kratom to the rescue again, as it was in late summer '05.

[Nicaine]

Let's start October 14. SWIM had managed to stay off stimulants around 4 days before this, but finally gave in and went on a 12+ hour methylone run. Just 36 hours later (the run ended Oct 15), SWIM did his last ~65-75mg of methylone. Immediately following when that wore off, he hit the propylhexedrine, going through 2 1/2 inhalers in the course of the night/following day (and stashing half the contents of an inhaler for later).

We're now up to last night. SWIM was needing some sleep horribly bad, but unable to sleep very long (running out of Ambien didn't help much). Then today, he took out that 1/2 a Benzedrex inhaler he saved yesterday and used it, then went to the drugstore, bought another one and used it.

At least it's obvious now there's a real problem. Just a short time ago, SWIM rushed out 5 minutes before the drugstore closed to get yet another Benzedrex inhaler, leaving his umbrella in the house & getting drenched. At this point he was very aware what he was doing and how insane it was, but that "what the hell" mode was in full swing. He's still not sure if he's gonna do the final inhaler or not, his body is awfully worn out & burned out from stimulant over-use and SWIM is suffering from sleep deprivation (thankfully mild at this point). He's resisting starting in on the inhaler he just got.

OK, there's a problem and it's serious. SWIM is definitely psychologically addicted to stimulants, and probably physically too. He's definitely built up a tolerance too... whether short-term or long-term is unknown at this point. SWIM has started curing the tiredness/exhaustion caused by stimulants by taking more stimulants.

Starting either tonight or tomorrow morning, SWIM is gonna do what worked for him in 2005 -- start using kratom as a substitute (when he just has to be "on something"). Even if it means getting addicted to kratom again, the latter is psychologically much easier to kick than stimulants. It's also a lot safer and more benign for the body than stimulants.

Dammit... SWIM never believes things will reach this sort of point again, but they always do.

Edit -- SWIM is still resisting starting that propylhexedrine he picked up 15 minutes ago. His plan as of now is to let the rest of the one he's still on wear off, do some kratom, then when that wears off (6 hrs) get a nice solid block of sleep time in. Let's hope his resolve holds up.

[azrael2600]

swim was physically addicted to dexedrine for many years. before swim kicked the habit swim was on 90mg's a day. swim managed to kick it by gradually lowering swims dosage 10mg's every 2 weeks. after swim was completely off dexedrine swim didin't feel normal until 1 month after quiting.
swim is not pysically addicted to amphetamines anymore but swim still find themselves once in a while doing them. swim isn't physically addicted to stimulants anymore but is still mentally addicted to them. swim will also add that long term use of stimulants can cause a variety of health problems.
swim knows that quiting stimulants is very hard (physicaly and mentaly)so best of luck to you even though swim is a hypocrite.

[Nicaine]

SWIM thanks you for me. He told me that he managed to resist using that inhaler he bought at the last minute, and took some kratom instead (good thing it came in the mail today, eh). He's sticking to the original plan: ~6 hours of kratom buzz followed by innumerable hours asleep in bed . I'm sure he'd enjoy the stimulants a lot more anyway if he was caught up on his sleep.

P.S. that's quite a high dose of dexedrine... SWIM just noticed that SWIY is still 'only' 23 years old. Try messing with too many stimulants once you're over 40, the picture gets less & less pretty. There are times after rolls/runs where SWIM will take a shower, and lifting his arms to wash his armpits feels like lifting a thousand pounds.

[Nicaine]

SWIM has been being good (and probably will continue to for some time). Running out of Ambien has really helped curb his enthusiasm.

[izzy31]

I think this should help describe it - "If you feel its doing more benefits than it does creating problems, and if your able to control it a responsible person, it doesn't matter what you do.

[Nicaine]

'luck aminorex...

SWIM took the contents of a Benzedrex inhaler tonight, & found he still has a tolerance. The "short term tolerance" effect should have worn off, so it looks like he's developed some long-term tolerance. He didn't have that much trouble staying away the past three days (no real cravings anyway, bit of depression & sleeping a lot), so he's guessing he'll shoot for a week or so next time. Maybe if he goes that long, he'll just stay away permanently.

In any case, it's not gonna be worth it if SWIM needs 2-3 times as much for the same effect .

[omen8productions]

this thread is pretty old. i hope SWIY is feeling better.

SWIM has/and will again be right there.

i guess this is the sort of shit people don't say around here though.

peace.

[Alfa]

What would happen if SWIY would quit drugs completely? How would SWIY's life look 6 months after that?

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by Alfa

What would happen if SWIY would quit drugs completely? How would SWIY's life look 6 months after that?

Dull. Oh, it would be nice if a magic fairy descended and gifted SWIM with a bunch of friends, new car, girlfriend, exciting career, motivation, freedom from disability. More likely though he would be sitting around all day watching Jerry Springer/Maury, eating, sleeping, surfing the Net and maybe have an extra hobby or two in an attempt to stave off the dysthymia and severe boredom.

So to answer SWIY's question... it might look a little better, but not much. Certainly much less adventurous.

[omen8productions]

i assume this was directed to me. even if i's not, it is a good question.

SWIM was straightedge for most of his life. he may not know the future should he stop using, but knows his head. many more advances have been made with the aid of chemicals, natural and artificial. it sort of seems like some people's twenties are well designed for this brand of inquisition.

a life decision was actually made, in the midst of thorough investigation of propylhexedrine. SWIM is 26 now. at age 30 he'd like to keep it to gonja, or nothing.

then again, this could be addiction playing one of it's famous tricks. "just for another week, i'm not doing that bad... but until i do quit, i'm going to really do it up". except this time SWIM has given himself 4 years of leeway...a yellow ligh

reflection is obviously suggested as SWIM digs his heels in and tries to race ahead to beat the red light.

peace.

[Nicaine]

SWIM has continued his pattern of stimulant over-use and sleep deprivation (a part of him is worried/scared to death, the other part really doesn't care anymore). He recently added enalapril (2.5-5mg twice/day on days when he uses) to his harm reduction regimen. Certain things are being neglected/overlooked more often now like regular showers, change of clothes and trips out of the house for grocery shopping or whatever else... SWIM is too damn tired to hassle with that unless it becomes an immediate necessity.

SWIM is really concerned about chronic affects, particularly cardiac... dying in his sleep looks like a still-unlikely but increasingly possible eventuality if he continues down this road. Could even happen while he's awake, now that he thinks about it... seems more likely when he's actually high on the stimulant in question, unless emergency harm reduction measures could be taken that would be neglected while sleeping.

[Nicaine]

Lately this question is starting to look extremely bizarre to SWIM. Whatever the substance in question, the typical experience lately consists of a few hours of underwhelming euphoria, mildly boosted mood and feelings of dissatisfaction, annoyance and disappointment.

The typical aftermath (i.e. price to be paid) now consists of somewhere between three and five straight days and nights of insomnia WITHOUT use of the substance, sky-high levels of anxiety, mood swings, anhedonia, depression and (more often lately) extreme sleep deprivation, panic attacks, baseless anger/rage and borderline psychosis.

Sounds like fun eh... should SWIM quit stimulants? Taking up needlepoint or basket weaving would be far more rewarding and worthwhile at this point. Stimulant use is starting to feel to SWIM like driving red hot nails through his eyeballs, or repeatedly bashing himself against a stone wall studded with spikes.

[Benga]

don't really know how much of answer / opinion is really expected in this thread, but from reading SWINicaine's post it really seems like problematic compulsive use, and this self labelled harm reduction seems more like yoyoing with brain chemistry and bodily functions than anything else, since rest / reccuperation periods don't seem part of the plan/game/program.

the real harm reduction, in swim's view, which is formed by this leit-motiv postings of high dosage stimulant binge trip reports ( most being really informative but seem to always end up in some form of extreme compulsive high dosage use) alternating with more introspective and anxious interrogation posts like those in this thread, would be giving swiyour body, and especially your mind a rest period, and one sufficiently long to make a difference and eventually end up in a position to decide between this type of lifestyle and another.

Need action, challenge, a personal and human experience, a radical change of setting ? Here's a suggestion that might be better than crochet : go help out an N.G.O. in some difficult area of the world, they're not hard to find.
It doesn't have to be this extreme, or maybe it does, not for swim to tell.
A friend who was having troubles with personal, non-substance use related issues, is currently doing a similar sabbatical, and it really seems to be making a difference in his life. A friend also went into heavy physical theater after quitting heroin in the 1980's. To each his own, but try to find a way to take a vacation from these cycles if swiyou can.
b

Reputation Comments on this post:

gave some really good advice to another user

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by benga

don't really know how much of answer / opinion is really expected in this thread, but from reading SWINicaine's post it really seems like problematic compulsive use, and this self labelled harm reduction seems more like yoyoing with brain chemistry and bodily functions than anything else, since rest / reccuperation periods don't seem part of the plan/game/program.

SWIM's issues go deeper than recent stimulant use/sleep deprivation, but that's certainly been a primary concern lately. SWIM has noticed as well that combining kratom with stimulants has caused him no end of grief; kratom by itself seems fine, stimulants by themselves he's handled just fine in the past as well. When he got readdicted to kratom and started using stims on top of it, the real trouble started. Combining the two appears to have utterly screwed up SWIM's brain chemistry.

the real harm reduction, in swim's view, which is formed by this leit-motiv postings of high dosage stimulant binge trip reports ( most being really informative but seem to always end up in some form of extreme compulsive high dosage use) alternating with more introspective and anxious interrogation posts like those in this thread, would be giving swiyour body, and especially your mind a rest period, and one sufficiently long to make a difference and eventually end up in a position to decide between this type of lifestyle and another.

Need action, challenge, a personal and human experience, a radical change of setting ? Here's a suggestion that might be better than crochet : go help out an N.G.O. in some difficult area of the world, they're not hard to find.
It doesn't have to be this extreme, or maybe it does, not for swim to tell.
A friend who was having troubles with personal, non-substance use related issues, is currently doing a similar sabbatical, and it really seems to be making a difference in his life. A friend also went into heavy physical theater after quitting heroin in the 1980's. To each his own, but try to find a way to take a vacation from these cycles if swiyou can.
b

It's a possibility. First there are a few acute issues to be dealt with, not the least of which being such a severe case of chronic, long term sleep deprivation that SWIM guesses there may be only a few other similar cases on the books. SWIM probably needs to locate a sleep clinic ASAP and put himself under the care of specialists; he doesn't think he has much time remaining before his sanity degenerates to mush.

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Hello Nicaine,

Just hoping you read this when your ban is lifted. You appear to be looking for suggestions, and hopefully SWIM is not being too presumptuous in offering what may be a stab in the dark. Please read or ignore as desired.

SWIM would like to suggest approaching the matter from an alternative angle. In some cases, problems with over-use of substances can be reflective of other issues. SWIM does not know you (other than reading posts) but was wondering if you're familiar with a condition known as Asperger's Syndrome. You seem to enjoy learning, as I do, so here are a few links:

http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html
http://www.aspergerssyndrome.org/

Again, I do not know you and am not suggesting you suffer from this or any other condition. Asperger's is normally a condition diagnosed in childhood, and if it affects an adult it is usually mild and has been compensated for to a large extent.

As far as SWIY's previous message, locating a sleep clinic does sound like a good idea; normal functioning isn't possible under conditions of extreme sleep deprivation, and serious health problems are likely if it goes on for too long.

Best Wishes.