Do you REALLY know what Research Chemical you just ingested?

[m_tristan17]

Swim will no longer take Research Chemicals until he can truly be sure what it is. That means getting a degree in organic chemistry. Having a lab and the know-how to test 'mail order' chemicals for himself by means other that tasting it.

Swim came to this conclusion during a frightening dream. It was in this dream that swim realized that perhaps there are people selling chemicals for reasons other than making money. Some crack-pot chemist that wants to test out his newest reaction on some unsuspecting guinea pigs with credit cards in hand. This chemist had an idea to creat a super molecule that would be the most mentally addictive drug ever created. One that could turn people into chemical slaves. Make them obsesse obout taking more, getting more, taking more, getting more.... Inspired by Shulgin this mad ego-driven chemist creats new chemicals every day. "Will this new chemical do what I want it to? Lets find out! There must be some fool who wants some 2c-i, or so he thinks... oops... back to the drawing board"

I have decided that the risks out weigh the return. I urge all of you to take stock of yourself and ask yourself the same questions. Why do I do this? What am I trying to achieve? Am I achiving my goals? Is this safe? Does my happiness depend on chemicals? Have I changed since I started? Is this change positive?

I have no regrets. I feel that I have been showed something very beautiful. I know there is MUCH more out there than my 5 senses can detect because of the experiences I have had. Its time to take all of this into the future. Make these experiences serve me and the rest of humanity positivly. I feel that doors have been opened, and now its time to stop looking into open doorways and walk through one.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for starting a rather interesting thread.

[Alfa]

Originally Posted by m_tristan17

Some crack-pot chemist that wants to test out his newest reaction on some unsuspecting guinea pigs with credit cards in hand. This chemist had an idea to creat a super molecule that would be the most mentally addictive drug ever created. One that could turn people into chemical slaves. Make them obsesse obout taking more, getting more, taking more, getting more.... Inspired by Shulgin this mad ego-driven chemist creats new chemicals every day. "Will this new chemical do what I want it to? Lets find out! There must be some fool who wants some 2c-i, or so he thinks... oops... back to the drawing board"

Very possible, but most unlikely. This thought seems to have sprung from paranoia. Unless there is a real situation SWIY is talking about, SWIY might want to close some of those doors, that have been opened. All research Chemicals should have a full CA(Certificate of Analsysis).

[m_tristan17]

Originally Posted by Alfa

Very possible, but most unlikely. This thought seems to have sprung from paranoia. Unless there is a real situation SWIY is talking about, SWIY might want to close some of those doors, that have been opened. All research Chemicals should have a full CA(Certificate of Analsysis).

As I said all of this was inspired by a dream. And you are right, it is very possible. As for the CA(Certificate of Analsysis). Sure, how many do you want? If someone can Photoshop Lindsy Lohans cooch on some paparazzi pic im sure a CA will be no problem. Let me whip out a few for Doi, Doc, 2c-b-y, and br-d-fly... as for paranoia... If you think that being scared of ingesting unknown untested unvarified chemicals obtained from 'someone' who can only be traced to an untraceable web address is being paranoid, then I think of anything else as being reckless.

Please don't overlook the fact that I said all of this fear was brought on by a bad dream and not by any factual experience.

Swim plans on doing his inner explorations in a more natural form in the future.
Sticking to the plants and perhaps meditation. Has anyone had any experience with Holotropic Breathwork? This has just recently come to my attention. Is this a sham/hoax?

[snapper]

SWIM has yet to run across any super-addictive research chem. True, there is no proof that what one orders is what one gets, even with spectral data, etc. However, there is enough documentation of the effects, appearance and properties of these molecules, as well as many knowledgable people to corroborate the reputation of some sources, which provides a reasonable assurance of authenticity. SWIM thinks the same uncertainty applies to street drugs, and the odds are far greater that the street will be the testing ground for new super addictive substances, since anonymity is even easier. Take the recent cases of fentanyl-laced heroin...
SWIM thinks that there are and have been trustworthy sources. Perhaps SWIYs dream was the normal variation found in many substances, or individual variation in response to that substance. Or perhaps a sketchy supplier who is deceptive.
SWIM cannot argue with caution, but SWIYs fears are likely to have little foundation in reality for most researchers past and present.

[Alfa]

No, that is not a sham. Could you please elaborate on that dream? Others may learn from it.

[nanobrain]

Originally Posted by m_tristan17

It was in this dream that swim realized that perhaps there are people selling chemicals for reasons other than making money. Some crack-pot chemist that wants to test out his newest reaction on some unsuspecting guinea pigs with credit cards in hand. This chemist had an idea to creat a super molecule that would be the most mentally addictive drug ever created. One that could turn people into chemical slaves.

replace 'crack-pot chemist' with 'most nations' or 'big pharma companies,' cut out Shulgin as the source inspiration as they have been doing it before he came around, and you just about have the right picture.

and its been happening oh, for awhile now.

ever wonder about what truly causes gaps in legislation?

and a degree in neuropsychopharmacology or at least a Tanita scale, a couple reagent kits, plus abit of apriori research never hurt anyone...right?

[snapper]

Even without access to a GC or NMR, melting points, reagent tests and simple physical appearance can all be assessed at home. The former alone typically helps a great deal, since melting points vary greatly with different products.
Nanobrain, your points are well taken

[m_tristan17]

Originally Posted by Alfa

No, that is not a sham. Could you please elaborate on that dream? Others may learn from it.

So the beathwork can actually induce a profound experience? I read that Stanislav Grof was involved in the development of this, but really it dates back very far in time.

As for the dream/paranoic vision combined with extream anxiety which caused this idea to come into my head: it goes like this.

There are lots of people who have read pihkal and tihkal and obsessed over all of the chemicals in there. There are chemists who have continued the work of Shulgin with br-d-fly and 2c-b-fly being some results that come to mind. Who was the first human to take one of these substances? was it the chemist who created it? was it some kid in nebraska who thought he was buying 2c-b with his first credit card? I have the feeling deep down that there are people out there with the chemical ability as Shulgin but without the itegrity he posseses. These people could simply create new chemicals sell them over the internet to people ONLY outside there home country. Removing themselves from the seizures and overdoses and freakouts. AND legal ramifications. Im sure they are trolling this board and reading this right now.(your secrets out buddy). They submit to all the 'sources' forums and reviews giving themselves the thumbs up for certain. Oh that doi is great! Results just as expected! I would venture to guess that very few people who could tell the difference between 2-c's do'x during the first 4 hours. Is it 2c-e or some new 2c-seizure.

I'll admit im paranoid now.. so what. I'll admit that there are other issuses effecting this dream. Am I doing permanant damage? Will I become schizophrenic?(who said that?)... Can I go see music and go dancing with out a chemical helper and have fun?

So far I have not regretted opening myself up to this forum like this. Aside from one comment that did little but +1 to his post count. All of this has had a profound change in the way I live my life. Next I'll try eating healthy and exercising!

[snapper]

No one makes any promises, and all testimonials are just that - testimonials. Shulgin tasted 2cb-fly BTW before that kid in Nebraska, btw. You are not incorrect that there are some chems which have been put out there as the next best thing to X (ie-substituted piperazines, for example) with some recklessness, but there are and have been many honest sources out there who have proven trustworthy. You can't make a blanket statement.
Erowid recommends knowing your substance and your source. The truth is that even with the RCs with a track record, no one really knows what could happen. There are few if any animal or human trials documented, and most information is anecdotal. Long term side effects, like going schizophrenic, are totally unknown. However, this is far from a conspiracy to produce the next crack or meth. Those who venture into uncharted territories should understand the risks before doing so, and if they feel there are negative consequences, stop.
SWIM thinks that getting 'healthy' first is a good idea, and all here should support whatever decision you have made regarding the routes to the expansion of your mind.
Good luck

[kb]

Caution is key, and remember, these are "research" chemicals, which means to SWIM that one should know how to handle, test, and store these things before SWIM makes a decision for personal experiment.

And, as with anything, start small. "Not enough" is much safer than "Whoa, Nelly!!!!!!"

Safety first....

[nanobrain]

from Infinite Jest, the best bok ever:

yes i am paranoid, but am i paranoid enough?

-the Paranoid King

[bewilderment]

Just a quick question: how do you know that ANYTHING which you ingest is really what people say it is? Even organic drugs...or just anything. How do you know that a hamburger is a hamburger?

[ponygirl]

As for 'going schizophrenic' here is my personal story on this:

I have been on many drugs, from lithium to Haldol, Risperdol, Abilify...I can go on... from everything to eating disorders, schizophrenia, and Rapid cycling bi-polar disorder. Do I have any of these? I don't know. Do I take any of these meds? Hell no. Am I able to live my daily life and be happy? YES!

Chemicals...and more importantly diet...can effect the way our body takes in vitamins and minerals. I have been found to have a serious disease called Celiacs disease. I was very malnourished because my body was so damanged that it wouldn't absorb anything. The disease has been linked to Schizophrenia. Even Autistic kids do better and in some cases are cured by not eating wheat. Something to think about...has these chemicals effected SWIMs body perhaps in this manner? Is SWIM getting all the things he needs to get into his system?

Am I saying for everyone to get off your meds? No. But be aware that your body is a glorious thing...and sometimes it just isn't getting it's needs met and is crying out for attention.

And for the record...Hamburgers are not often hamburgers...they are tainted with additives and wheat and soy. Heck...your french fries are a lot of stuff other than potatos.

[nanobrain]

^my first job as a teen was at Burger King, aka Hungry Jacks...lemme tellya, if you think you are always getting a hamburger on a bun, there was this one time when the ladies toilet flooded and soaked the buns and we were out and it was rush hour, but i digresss.

quantum entanglement ultimately implies we make our own reality. so rest easy in the knowledge that whatever you may believe to be true is in fact just so.

Reputation Comments on this post:

something like that.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by m_tristan17

Swim will no longer take Research Chemicals until he can truly be sure what it is. That means getting a degree in organic chemistry. Having a lab and the know-how to test 'mail order' chemicals for himself by means other that tasting it.

That is, of course, wise. However, SWIY must be aware that there's probably a tenfold risk of any given "street drug" (including marijuana) being adulterated with various poisons of unknown origin, makeup and potency. Tobacco products fall into this category as well.

As long as SWIY also has a strong aversion to purchasing *any* substance from any seller not regulated by the FDA or a similar organizatioin, it is a sane choice in SWIM's opinion. One just doesn't put anything even vaguely unknown in one's body, then.

[Iggypoop]

Hello all, haven't posted in a while been away... but i always have useful info when i do post

This sounds like a nightmare....

Important bit -- *Though he bought the drug as pure methylone powder via an internet order, our chemical analyses indicated that the drug was composed of about 60% methylone (120 mg) and 38% 5-MeO-MIPT (76 mg)*

I would honestly feel more secure with RC's than random E/whatever crap tabs from the street but we shouldn't take anything for granted!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

Combined intoxication with methylone and 5-MeO-MIPT.

* Shimizu E,
* Watanabe H,
* Kojima T,
* Hagiwara H,
* Fujisaki M,
* Miyatake R,
* Hashimoto K,
* Iyo M.

Department of Integrative Neurophysiology, Graduate School of Medicine, Chiba University, 1-8-1 Inohana, Chuouku, Chiba 260-8670, Japan.

Although preclinical studies suggest that methylone (2-methylamino-1-[3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl]propan-1-one) and 5-MeO-MIPT (5-methoxy-N-methyl,N-isopropyl tryptamine) may have psychostimulant properties, the scientific reports about the clinical effects of these agents are scant. We describe a 27-year-old male patient with substance intoxication after a single ingestion of the mixture of methylone and 5-MeO-MIPT. Though he bought the drug as pure methylone powder via an internet order, our chemical analyses indicated that the drug was composed of about 60% methylone (120 mg) and 38% 5-MeO-MIPT (76 mg). This case report suggests that clinicians should be alert to the possibility of the emergence of methylone or 5-MeO-MIPT intoxication, and substance-related mental disorder may be complicated by combined use of other psychoactive drugs.

PMID: 16876302 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

[fatal]

you may find this thread helpful tristan. relevant information reproduced below. thanks to IB and erowid.

Marquis

2-AminoIndan
Orange to Red (slightly rusty)
2C-C
Starting brown going to Dark Lime Green (similar to 2C-B)
2C-D
Very light pink
2C-E
No reaction (!?)
2C-I
Dark Green to Black
2C-T-2
Orange to Red (usually a sort of salmon color)
2C-T-4
Orange to Red (usually a sort of salmon color)
2C-T-7
Orange to Red (salmon, again; also, there is less tendency towards orange than 2C-T-2 shows)
3C-P
Orange
4-Acetoxy-DiPT
Dirty (blackish) olive
4-Methyl-Aminorex (u4euh)
no color change
4-MTA
no color change
5-MeO-DiPT
Fizzes then turns yellow quickly changing to a slightly rusty orange
Alpha-Methyl-DiPT
Fizzes then turns brown
AMT
Dark brownish-yellow
BDB
Dark brown, nearly black
Benzylpiperazine
No color change, but it causes the reagent to fizz. Looks like when you pour hydrogen peroxide on a cut.
DiPT
Fizzes strongly then turns a neon yellow
DPT
Dirty olive
Harmine
Fizzes slightly, much less so than BZP, and turns a brown-orange rust color.
IAP
Immediate reaction to salmon/red, slowly intensifies to a darker red over 1min.
MBDB
Dark Brown to Black
Methylone
Yellow
Opiates
Pink to Purple
Phenolphthalein
Crimson
PMA
No color change
TMA-2
Lime Green (similar to 2C-B)
TMA-6
Yellow to Orange
Yohimbine
Fizzes slightly, much less so than BZP. Slowly (up to a minute), it will turn an olive green color.

Mecke

2C-E
light yellow/green within 10 seconds
2C-I
Immediate reaction to a reddish brown similar to drying blood
2C-T-21
Dark blood red which turns to an imperial purple over 30 seconds
4-Methyl-Aminorex (u4euh)
no color change
IAP
No Reaction
MBDB
Yellow
TMA-6
Dirty olive, gradually develops orange on the edges of the liquid puddle after about a minute

Simons

2C-E
No reaction
2C-I
No reaction
2C-T-21
Greenish blue
IAP
No Reaction
TMA-6
Purple


cheers.

[fatal]

to put this into perspective most of the time if you eat a cheeseburger that has chemicals and soy in it it wont make you permanently retarded/psychotic/brainfried. if you take a 250mg dose of methylone that actually has 95mg of 5meomipt in it, it might be a little bit of a problem.

[Nagognog2]

It's odd I have heard no reports to date on terrible reactions from this methylone/5-Meo-MiPT finding. But I am not surprised to see it is published by a branch of the US Government.

[snapper]

^^
Wasn't that finding in one sample from Japan? There was no mention of the victim's death, so again a testimonial to the safety of 5meomipt (though that musta sucked !).

[fatal]

it still doesnt sound that safe.

[ponygirl]

Well most of the time...for most people. I however do get really sick and peanut residue can kill me. So...to some people...it's a similar compairison. I didn't mean it as such however...I was just feeding off someone elses comments.

[tokingchicken]

Originally Posted by m_tristan17

I have decided that the risks out weigh the return. I urge all of you to take stock of yourself and ask yourself the same questions. Why do I do this? What am I trying to achieve? Am I achiving my goals? Is this safe? Does my happiness depend on chemicals? Have I changed since I started? Is this change positive?

SWIM ordered a white powder labeled 2c-t2. swim didnt have a scale at the time, so every dose was eyeballed. Some call that crazy in itself, not me.

The risk outweighs the reward? , well is the risk really that large when using an established vendor you and others have used succesfully.. Maybe,
It is only as simple as that guy mixing the white powder bags up and someone could end up dead.
I can see your point.

However these chemicals are amazing. swim took a huge dose one time not caring whether it would be too much. It has changed swims entire perspective and considers it to be the most meaningful drug experience hes ever done.
Maybe you are dismissing it a little too fast. I truely think if everyone wasnt so close minded about drugs, these would be used in psychology etc. They really help with problems much like people say mdma does.

[renegades]

This swim can tell if he has taken the RC advertised or if it was subsituted. Go to xxxxxxxxx to see if there has been any complaints. Read Erowid trip experiences to see if it matches what you are experiencing. This swim educates himself about a drug effects before taking it. See if pikal recommended dose level matches what swim took, or did it take a lot more to achieve its effects. If so, it ,ogjt be a dofferemt RC or has been cut. This swim got some DOB but it took a lot more than 2mg to get this swim off. So obviously it has been step on to achieve greater profits at the expense of their reputation.