Call To Test Teachers For Drugs

[Lunar Loops]

Hey, teacher, leave those drugs alone......

This from The Daily Record (Scotland) :

23 September 2006
CALL TO TEST TEACHERS FOR DRUGS

TEACHERS should be given random drug tests, a leading academic has claimed.
Professor Neil McKeganey, director of the Centre for Drugs Misuse Research at Glasgow University, called for a pilot project to make Scots schools "drug-free" zones.
He said it made no sense to only target children when drugs could still be abused by teachers.
But education leaders and unions condemned the proposal as "unethical".
McKeganey said: "It would not make any sense if teachers using illegal drugs work in a school where drugs testing is trying to reduce the level of use."
Pilot projects have been launched in England, with schemes introduced by the Prime Minister in Kent in which secondary school pupils are tested with mouth swabs.

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And several independent schools, including Edinburgh Academy, have used testing as a condition of re-admission for pupils expelled after drug-taking.

But teaching unions are at loggerheads over the plans and some have branded the move a "step too far" in the battle against drugs.

Ronnie Smith, general secretary of the Educational Institute of Scotland, said: "Random drug testing of staff raises major ethical and civil liberties questions."

And Greg Dempster, general secretary of the Association of Head-teachers and Deputes in Scotland, added: "If the idea is that we have testing across the board of teachers and students, where do we stop?

"Is everyone in the population subject to random testing."

[Nature Boy]

"He said it made no sense to only target children when drugs could still be abused by teachers."

How doesn't it make sense? Teachers are fully-grown and responsible for their own actions in the eyes of the law. The emphasis should be to keep school kids off drugs, it has NOTHING to do with the teachers. Drugs are a lot more dangerous to the developing mind than the adult mind.

[elbow]

My favorite teachers have always been the ones that were obvious potheads.
I think teachers are entitled to a little relaxation, they have a very stressful job!

The thing that I object to with drug testing is the fact that the least harmful drug stays in your system the longest...so it always ends up being a "weed test" more than anything else, because that's what will most likely come up positive.

[Nagognog2]

Nice prelude to the next stage: Mandatory drug-testing for ALL people.

[wellhelm]

I can't beleive im even reading this shit, and that teachers are not jumping on couches(thats right, i used tom cruise as a metaphor) screaming about this shit. They are slowly taking away our freedoms in cleverly disguised conservitive rants and i feel helpless to do anything about it!

[ryanstein]

i agree with the idea.

if i had kids, i definitly wouldnt want them taught by some1 who is using because they might come into school messed up or not put enough time and effort into planning. the gov't has more than enough right to test teachers and i think most of the public would agree that it is a good idea.

my art teacher in elementary school was busted for drugs and even then i thought he acted strange and had weird views.

think about the risk of letting teachers get by with drug use. its not always whether their sober at school, there are a lot of responsibilities teachers take on outside of school. also there are enough pediphiles (spelling) in the school system as it is. i guess im alone in this forum but i would never be ok with my kid bein taught my a drug user.

who knows, mayb it doesnt matter because one of my friends smokes around his daughter all the time and she turned out ok ...

ryan

[wellhelm]

With anything, use drugs and alcohol responsibly. Why are we not up in arm's about teachers that drink alcohol? I bet theres a lot of hang overs in many schools across the country due to teachers drinking. Maybe they should be tested. Then any teachers with depression or anxiety and have to take meds should they teach. Performance should be marked on how well people do there job not what they do in there own private time.

[Nature Boy]

Originally Posted by ryanstein

i agree with the idea.

if i had kids, i definitly wouldnt want them taught by some1 who is using because they might come into school messed up or not put enough time and effort into planning. the gov't has more than enough right to test teachers and i think most of the public would agree that it is a good idea.

my art teacher in elementary school was busted for drugs and even then i thought he acted strange and had weird views.

think about the risk of letting teachers get by with drug use. its not always whether their sober at school, there are a lot of responsibilities teachers take on outside of school. also there are enough pediphiles (spelling) in the school system as it is. i guess im alone in this forum but i would never be ok with my kid bein taught my a drug user.

who knows, mayb it doesnt matter because one of my friends smokes around his daughter all the time and she turned out ok ...

ryan

Sorry buddy but that's a load of crap right there.

You envisage foamy-mouthed, glary-eyed teachers strung out on sweet lady H but that's not the reality of this scenario. As suggested above, realistically, it will just be a few harmless occasional pot-smoking teachers that will get done under this measure and it won't be to the benefit of anyone. It will put people out of jobs and schools will lose out on otherwise perfectly good teachers. If teachers are abusing drugs and under-performing as a result of this abuse, it will be spotted and acted upon straight away. Policy isn't needed for common sense.

[ryanstein]

taking away ur freedom...?

illegal drugs r obviously against the law so how is that takin away ur freedom. and the gov't isnt disguising this as anything. this issue isnt new, many politicians have tried to get somethin like this passed into law a couple different times and its pretty legitiment when it comes to childrens future/education.

the only way i can c this as taking away freedoms is mayb invasion of privacy but here in the US most employers drug test employees b4 they hire them and randomely so y should it b any different for teachers?? any person who is workin in public safety is drug tested so y shouldnt teachers considering how important their job is. its not life or death but still pretty damn important.

ryan

[wellhelm]

The whole privacy thing, that was excatly my point. Why should i have to prove one way or the other what i do in MY SPARE TIME. Its mine not there's. I try not to readilly accept whats handed to me with out questioning why.
Just because its a law does not make it right. I don't smoke weed but i do drink and to this day i can not figure out why mj is illeagal and alcohol is leagal. It makes no sense.

[ryanstein]

of course a law isnt right just because its a law but wat im sayin is that its a law no matter right or wrong so the govt has all the right to test (for the US, if its passed in congress). i also think that MJ should b legal and some drug laws r ridiculous but thats not the point. my point is that teachers have a very vital job and their drug use should not b taken lightly.

wat ppl do on their own time is their own buisness but if its ok to drug test public safty employees because their job is so important then it should b ok for teachers to b tested. now if the govt tries to make it where ppl in less important careers b tested i would agree with u.

im not meanin u but a lot of ppl here r biased against anything, any1 or any article that is against drugs because they use themselves and think theres nothing wrong with drugs at all. im just pointing out y its legitiment to the ppl on here who wont even try to consider the idea because their biased

Reputation Comments on this post:

you know ryan i fully agree with you about what you said about peole being biased in here and shooting down every articl...

[wellhelm]

I completly agree that any extracaricular activities interfiering with a teachers ability to teach should not be taken lightly. They do have a vital role in the development of many young minds. (here it comes) But, like i previously stated, if unknown to the staff, children, or parents what harm could it possibly do? Its truely a victimless crime.
I hate laws and rules so much when it comes to what im allowed to do to myself.
Though i agree teaching should be watched closer than other jobs that does not mean they must sacrifice there privacy with out warrant.

[ryanstein]

i agree they should wait until they have a reason to suspect him/her. some type of neglagence and w/e else but i dont think we should rule it out completely.

[stoneinfocus]

I aggreee too that alcohol abuse is common and impairs the teahers ability to terach and act as a "how-to" example, but pupiös think it´s cool, when a terachers is into drinking... that´ßs the story and I really hate alcohol drug-culture, which seems to impair any sense to logic and makes u aggressively undermining anything that´s too much of an effort to evaluate and integrate.

Being a good teacher has nothing to do of being clean or not .... hell swim ha an IQ that would have allowed him to be anything he wanted to and didn´t learn out of protest for more than a year never even having a logistic to do homework, despite he ever did some.

the children leaving school after 8-10years here in Germany can´t read, calculate the most simple mathematical and that´s because the teachres here are children, coming from school, then studying and never did a step on theri own, despite knowing what´s up in real life.

They´re cocky, childish, they enjoy their power and abusing it instead of improving things, they rather use their authority to kick people out and have not the slightest idea or motivation to improve a pupils life by getting them to know better and find tactics to help, despite blaming in class and aggressive selfdetermined negation of their responsibility of this pupils life.

Ten years ago had 2 privat confessing nazis as teachers one being the director.It´s ugly, they´re letting the "wrong" pupils run into the wrong direction, enjoying it with the class supporting them, whose brains they´ve washed and support the most ugliest assholes to become successfull and then they´ll be doctors, politicians and then we´re havong a scenario like ... 1984, uuuh, like now...

Damn I´ve learned more for live in 3 nights with an ex-prisoner for drugs and musician than in 10 years school.

I´ve learned in 20 minutes on a subject I´m intersted in more than in 8 months at school.

allright we´re haviong this law for teahcers to come and I think you muist sort the shit out, so if a law applies to one it should appply to each and everyone, or it´s no law!
Laws have to be strict andthat´s why we shouldnßt have them, or too many of them, which would be a sign, that we can´t cope with our fellows and ourselves.#
Whatßs baf in not wearing a belt when driving? Ít´s my decision when to dealing freedom for safety when rahter dying like the way I want it is what I want and not like laws suppose me how to live, maybe handicapped under pain with noo freedom at all, and die.

After all we have to live together and we should know what the meaning of life is and our little role as humans in it.

[stoneinfocus]

BTW I don´t want my children to see films wiht schwarzenegger, Sly Stallone or Hulk Hogan, because I don´t want them to see people using drugs as an exaple of being successful, neither do I want them to see athletes taking performance enhancing drugs, cause I could pop a pill and become a champion, but that would be cheating. altthough, I know that god an my praying woulnd´t make drugs necessary, he´s so strong, and I´m so cool that I would win anyway.(at least i tell this my children, so they´ll admire me and lose precious time learning how to deal with things the right way and are even shitting on the ones that really know, so I don´t look like a fat, dumb, lazy, ignorant bastard so much and they look like idiots under my law and treaty)

[Paracelsus]

nowadays, almost all children grow up with a negative image on drugs in their mind, which is good imo, at least for small children. Where I live, homeless ten-year-olds are all over the place and huff some industrial byproduct, called Aurolac, 24/7. I dont know exactly what it is and I dont want to know and if I had children, I wouldnt want them to know either. When they grow up, one can start telling them that solvents like Aurolac have a really bad brain toxicity and 50% of those chronic kiddy-huffers die before they become 18 (which is true, at least where I live).

A parent cant expect his eight-year-old boy to understand stuff like addiction, withdrawal, tolerance, so-called drug-related crimes, whatever. One can just tell them we have all been taught, drugs are bad, they will kill you, dont take them.

It's sad indeed, but imagine what would have happened to you if your mom started to tell you that weed doesnt make you addicted and other drugs are safe when used responsibly. You would not have waited until you become 18 and are full-developed and responsible for your actions, you would have probably become a ten-year-old huffer.

...

[Nagognog2]

With the FEAR the USA is trying to condition it's citizens with, soon teachers will be computers. Only technicians and police will be the only adults in the buildings. No more taking chances with a child having a pot-smoking liberal poison their innocent widdle minds. We already have seen cameras being placed all over schools - with little objection from the parents.

Those kids lucky enough to get a high enough score will graduate and go onto colleges. The rest will be funneled off into the military to maintain America's position as the world's only "superpower." The rest of the US economy will be based on prison construction/administration and production of the TV show COPS. No one will be allowed to leave their houses without first passing an iridology-scan for illegal drugs.

[Trebor]

While I disagree alot, and I mean alot, I still see a certain logic in the idea. Do we want our children being taught by drug users? Of course not. But then, do we want our clothes designed by drug users, or coffees made by drug users? Do we want to have to go to the Reformed Prysbiterian (wrong I know) bookshop becuase we don't like drug users? If so, we can't buy or newspapers, or CD's, DVD's,go to the cinema, art galleries, clothes shops or the places we buy our food, becuase, perish the thought, we are served by a drug user.

[stoneinfocus]

that´s why we always had and needed a society where everything is covered by social-cultural behaviour that covers from discussion to drug-using practice everything, thus eliminating the major risks to all involved.

Of course u want kids to stay away from inhaling solvent-fumes and not parcipitating in meth-sex-partys, therefor, we need to take care of the children and not of the teacher and the grown-up drug-user until the children are old enough to picture it by semsleves.It´s as simple as that,if we´d only care of the human and his true nature and not about money & power, we wouldn´t have those probs and those off-topic controls of the individual to shove to him the guilt of failed politics, greed and exploitation.

[stoneinfocus]

there must be a rite the children not having any predjudice about drugs, but knowing that these things are not for them and risky, as examples for it wouldnßt be hard to find....

It´s a bit more difficult today than with the old rites, where u had to go through one major intoxication´with like 10 or 13years to become a man, and that was it concerning the drugs, today there´re a lot of substances -gold to one, poison to another and ignoring, bad-mouthing them or the adult user is not in the meaning of evolution and proceeding intelligence and social culture.

[ryanstein]

trebor, your examples dont apply. those arent vital jobs.

its not like i think every teacher should b tested but when its appropriate then im ok with it.

forget it...no matter wat i say hardly any1 on this forum will actually try to consider the pros to the idea because the majority of the ppl on here have a problem with anything that is anti drug...hmmmm

ryan

[Trebor]

Originally Posted by ryanstein

those arent vital jobs.

its not like i think every teacher should b tested but when its appropriate then im ok with it.

I'm sorry, not vital jobs, if all those jobs were gotten rid of, how long before you got pissed of at the dry conversations you had about the music you listened to, or the books you read? I'd give it a month.

And what teachers should be tested? Liberals? Art teachers? Cool teachers who may not even use drugs?

It's as simple as this: if someone expresses an independent thought, they are a liability to the stability of the government. The reason they are targeting teachers is 'cuase they sculpt young minds.

[ryanstein]

hey nature boy...

u think thats a load of crap...

well i just graduated high school last spring and i can tell u from experience that yes it does matter. swim has personally smoked with 2 of his teachers (one was also the soccer coach) and highly suspected another. in both cases where swim has evidence, the 2 teachers r very inferior to their peers. the 3rd was the worst teacher swims ever had. also a 4th who i mentioned earlier that was busted.

and yes nature boy im also talkin bout marijuana not lady H.

trebor: the teachers that should b tested r those who have a major accident on the job. if somethin major happens to a kid the teacher is responsible for. also, those who keep committing the same infractions over and over that would suggest drug use (the teachers swim described on this message).

yes the reason y they r targeting teachers is because they have so much control over young minds. for elementary and middle school students, teachers r basically 2nd parents for them. teachers have so much influence over young ppls minds that it may be necessary, not because the govt is trying to suppress open thoughts but because most drugs r illegal and kids shouldnt b exposed to them in ANYWAY.

ryan

[Nature Boy]

Originally Posted by ryanstein

hey nature boy...

u think thats a load of crap...

well i just graduated high school last spring and i can tell u from experience that yes it does matter. swim has personally smoked with 2 of his teachers (one was also the soccer coach) and highly suspected another. in both cases where swim has evidence, the 2 teachers r very inferior to their peers. the 3rd was the worst teacher swims ever had. also a 4th who i mentioned earlier that was busted.

That's an isolated incident so it doesn't mean anything on a larger scale. SWIM's well aware of teachers and many professionals who smoke pot and do an outstanding job. He knows several college lecturers and professors who smoke pot daily and they are all highly regarded in their respective fields.

[Trebor]

Originally Posted by ryanstein

trebor: the teachers that should b tested r those who have a major accident on the job. if somethin major happens to a kid the teacher is responsible for. also, those who keep committing the same infractions over and over that would suggest drug use (the teachers swim described on this message).

yes the reason y they r targeting teachers is because they have so much control over young minds. for elementary and middle school students, teachers r basically 2nd parents for them. teachers have so much influence over young ppls minds that it may be necessary, not because the govt is trying to suppress open thoughts but because most drugs r illegal and kids shouldnt b exposed to them in ANYWAY.

ryan

If you had fully read my last post you'd have read my reason for why they are targeting teachers.

Hree's a simpler way for me to explain this to you.

If John, who teaches in Lincoln high school, why, in his spare time, shouldn't he be allowed, in his own home, to have a joint, now, if he was to have it in the middle of an English class, I'd be the first person to complain, but becuase he isn't, he's in a building only he has access to, I can support his choice. If he chooses to use weed as sa recreational relaxant, that's his business.

I just read this qoute by Nagoganog (hope that's the right spelling, if not, sorry man.) and I think it has relevence:


"it was a factory-line to produce good, obedient little soldiers for the government meat-grinder." That's why the want to test the teachers. To make sure they arn't fucking up all their hard work in controlling the minds of the young.