Combinations - Wellbutrin - what drugs to avoid?

[Nahbus]

SWIM has just been perscribed wellbutrin.
Anyway, SWIM is a curious little monkey and likes to experiment with drugs.
Are there definate NO-NO's with wellbutrin? SWIM is assuming some stimulants, but then again he has read it helps with amphetamine and coke and nicotine cravings.
He read on erowid that one should absolutely avoid 5-MEO-DiPT and 2C-T-7 (not like he will ever get his hands on these)

How will wellbutrin effect LSD? How bout mushrooms?
Basically, SWIM is MAINLY concerned with:

Opiates (maybe it will keep him awake on trams?)
Amphetamine
Methylphenidate
LSD (and LSA?)
Mushrooms
Marijuana (doubt thats bad)
Maybe DMT (rare for him to get anyway)

These are SWIMs main drugs of choice, but I'm sure he'll come across more he'd like to try.
He definately want's to be safe as possible, so any information on interactions would be great.
Thanks!

[Octo42o]

Its not a MAIO so SWIY is safe, nothing life threating. But SWIM doesnt know much. SWIMs done some deadly combos and seemed to escape death with only gnarly trips.

[Nahbus]

Well, MAOI's aren't the only class of drugs with interactions.
Wellbutrin can cause siezures, and ultimately - death (even if taken alone in too high of a dose).
SWIM needs some real information on this subject.

[Nahbus]

Also, I have another question.
SWIM was told to take just one for 3 days before moving up to his daily dose of 2x 150mg (300mg daily). He noticed that after about 8 hours he started getting king of edgy... not horrible, but slightly uncomfortable.
Would it be that dangerous to just start taking his 2 a day on the second day, instead of the 4th? He doesn't seem to think so, but again, doesn't want to risk any siezure or any crap like that.
SWIM is such a worry wart! In a good, safe way, though.
Anyway thanks again.

Also, please only respond if you have legit information, not just guesses...

[bewilderment]

I've been wondering the same thing. The only thing I could find on erowid is this statement:
"* Bupropion may be dangerous in combination with MAO inhibitors and at least 14 days should elapse after the last dose of an MAOI is taken and the use of bupropion. Some users have reported unpleasant effects when taking psychedelics with daily doses of bupropion but other regular bupropion users have reported no adverse side effects when combined with LSD, Psilocybin Mushrooms, etc. Combinations of strong psychoactives may increase the health risks.
* Bupropion should not be taken by those who have been taking MAO inhibitors!! At least 14 days should elapse between the use of MAO inhibitors and the use of bupropion. "

But, they don't have any other interactions listed. Swim should have 2C-E at some point this week, and her spouse is on wellbutrin. She can't find much about interactions though. One would think it would be okay since it is a serotonin agonist while wellbutrin is just a dopamine and norepinephrine agonist. However, the reports on erowid don't look very promising. It looks like it interacts badly with a number of things.

Then again, swim's spouse only just now started taking her medication again after taking a break for a few weeks so swim is thinking that it could be okay if she doesn't take the wellbutrin for a little while. But, swim's spouse has also been a bit stressed and should really start taking her medication again. So, swim may just have to venture out on this one alone for now.

I'm doing research on this at the moment so I'll post if I'm able to turn anything up, but I haven't found much yet.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Informative, well thought out posting as always

[bewilderment]

Oh, and wellbutrin inhibits CYP2D6 activity just as an SSRI does. Due to this reaction, these are some of the things to be avoided: amphetamine, antipsychotics (haloperidol, risperidone, etc), β-blockers (carvedilol, metoprolol, etc), chlorphenamine, Class I antiarrhythmics (lidocaine, flecainide, etc), debrisoquine, dextromethorphan, metoclopramide, ondansetron, opioids (codeine, tramadol, etc), SSRIs (fluoxetine, paroxetine, etc), tamoxifen, tricyclic antidepressants (imipramine, amitriptyline, etc), venlafaxine, vinca alkaloids (vincristine, etc).

Although, swim's spouse also has ADD and takes adderall and has no negative reaction. She also knows that her wife has taken opiates while on wellbutrin and those have been fine as well. Now, DXM is a different story...everything would end up okay but her spouse would trip for about two days before things would settle down. Not recommended at all and very unpleasant, possibly fatal or at least a big health threat at higher doses or in a different individual.

[Nicaine]

SWIM never found an *absolute* no-no with Wellbutrin (when he was prescribed it).

It does lower the seizure threshold, and certain stimulants like coke lower it even more. A seizure could definitely occur. SWIM guesses a serious "no-no" would be smoking or injecting cocaine while on Wellbutrin, unless a potent anticonvulsant was tossed into the mix (high dose of clonazepam, oxcarbazepine, carbamazepine, etc).

Mixing stimulants is generally risky, just like mixing downers (e.g. benzos + alcohol). SWIM suggests that SWIY avoid anything stronger than caffeine while on a full therapeutic dose (300mg/day) of bupropion, unless there are anticonvulsants around.

[Forthesevenlakes]

if it lowers the seizure threshold (and swim trusts nicaine's judgment on this), definitely avoid tramadol. its been known to cause seizures at recreational dosages. swim must have about 20 posts saying this same thing, but seriously, tramadol is not something to mess around with if wellbutrin has that action. swim has seen lab rats flip out pretty bad on trams alone, everything from panic attacks, to bizarre muscle spasms. so dont combine those.

swim probably already mentioned this to swiNahbus too, but dont combine wellbutrin and DXM. from what swim has seen and heard, it turns DXM into an unpleasant three day trip.

bewilderment, you mentioned that wellbutrin inhibits enzymes that metabolize opiates/opioids. are there any that are okay to use? and does this enzyme inhibition potentiate the opiates and thus make a lower dose necessary, or does it make them COMPLETELY UNSAFE to use? swim is just wondering for his own curiosity.

[bewilderment]

Well, I took the information from the chart here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CYP2D6#CYP2D6_Ligands

Like, I said, swim's wife has not had any problems with adderall or opiates including hydrocodone and morphine. In the notes it says this: "Where classes of agents are listed, there may be exceptions within the class."

The antipsychotic, seroquel, also does not seem to interact badly with wellbutrin. I think that many of the things on this list could be absolutely fine, but one should be careful when mixing them for the first time.

Oh, and as far as the 2C-E thing...swim's wife did partake in the 2C-E taking about 7mg. I'm not sure if it was the wellbutrin or lamictal (which she is also prescribed...she is also bipolar which means that maybe the thyroid could have something to do with things, I don't know) or simply a bad panic attack, but swim's wife experience chest pains and had just an absolutely horrible time during the come-up...they even worried that she may have to be taken to the hospital. However, swim has done some research on panic attacks (swim's wife also has generalized anxiety disorder and has panic attacks even when they are not drug-induced) and found that chest pains and many (actually all) of the symptoms which swim's wife was describing are common during panic attacks...although swim's wife usually doesn't experience such severe panic attacks unless they are drug-induced. So, I don't know if it was an interaction or just because she is prone to panic attacks but it went badly. However, after the panic, swim's wife had a much more intense trip than swim did at a 14mg dose which may mean that either the wellbutrin or lamictal potentiates the 2C-E greatly.

This bad trip has once again piqued my interest in wellbutrin...at this point I don't know what is causing what. At this very moment, I am at my mother's house and don't have time to do much research but I'm definately going to be looking into these things. Although, both swim and her wife are taking a break from the hallucinogens at the moment...her wife for health reasons and swim just because she's feeling bored with the whole thing and feels burnt out.

I have access to some research journals through a university so I'm going to try to find out more about what's known about wellbutrin and what's going on.

Also, kratom, which isn't an opiate but produces similar effects doesn't seem to react badly with wellbutrin either. And, swim suspects that wellbutrin lessens the effects of mushrooms. Swim's wife almost always has more intense trips than swim, but every time she takes mushrooms with swim...swim has a more intense trip by far.

I suspect that wellbutrin isn't a very strong inhibitor of liver enzyme in question which may explain why it's hard to determine what exactly is going to cause a strong reaction. I say this because if it was a stronger inhibitor of the CYP2D6 enzyme then swim's wife would have probably ended up in the hospital after taking a high 2nd plateau dose of DXM, but didn't...it was just a very prolonged and intense trip. I know I said this earlier, that I would be doing more research and update...but I mean it this time

[Nahbus]

SWIM hasn't had a chance to try any drugs besides marijuana and diazepam while on Wellbutrin thus far. He does have codeine in a safe place for a rainy day, but that will be another day. I would like to note some things SWIM has noticed while on Wellbutrin. (keep in mind SWIM has very odd brain chemistry and experiences odd/pronounced effects in almost everything)
First, it's effects on marijuana. It definately makes it feel more psychadelic. SWIMs head gets heavy and if he smokes too much his eyes kinda of dart back and forth if he doesn't move them (not that fun). He feels as though it brings out his anxiety a bit more, but definately leaves him in a state similar to that of his previous psychotic/manic episodes. Not strongly... but it really makes SWIM feel as though it brings out his mental disorders ten fold. It kinda of makes the experience less fun, but still enjoyable. It also brings much more sedation for SWIM and will zonk right out, whereas before he could stay up with ease. Interesting, but SWIM will have to explore this more.

No different effects noticed for Diazepam, but SWIM finds himself needing it more lately. Not sure if it's the Wellbutrin or SWIM just getting into a slump, which happens semi-frequently. Actually, now that he thinks of it.. he says he gets more of a loss of coordination. Finding himself way more 'stumbly', even as low as 5mg.

As far as physical effects: it seems to have made SWIMs semen a lot more 'sticky' and less fluid. He has also had a big boost in sexual urges.
Wellbutrin also give SWIM much more vivid dreams. He used to get VERY VERY vivid and bizarre dreams, but the diazepam put a halt on the dreams . Since He has been on Wellbutrin, though, he finds himself waking up with memories of bizarre, fun dreams.
It has had a huge effect on SWIMs sleep cycle. SWIM is very prone to insomnia as is, but this makes it worse, in a not bad way. He still has is 'stay up till 3-4am' insomnia, but Wellbutrin has been making him wake up at like 6-7-8am (8 being the latest so far). He feels no more 'lack of sleep' feelings as usual.. maybe even more of a kick.
SWIM has also been in a slight depressed/anti-social slump lately. Not sure if it's my brain adjusting to the Wellbutrin or if it's just SWIM, but it wasn't too severe... but it had been bad enough to make SWIM not socialize outside the internet for about a week. (on a brighter side: today he feels pretty good and feels as though he is coming back up to his happy mode).
Oh, I almost forgot ()- Wellbutrins effect on SWIMs memory. Holy hell it makes SWIM about 300% more forgetful. He doesn't like this at all.

Not as much 'motivation' as when he first started taking it (damn, the first week was very intense, making SWIM feel like he was on amphetamine [no embelishment]). He was getting things done lightning fast, but it felt way 'cleaner' than amphetamine, with no 'crash' or shit feelings.

Anyway, SWIM does have a feeling pot has been making him a bit more depressed, so he will probably cut back on that and se how things go.

Well, that's about it so far, I will let you know how SWIMs drug interactions go in the future, though! Stay tuned, kids.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Excellent report

[Nahbus]

I should add, however, even though he doesn't feel as though the motivation is there.. it is, just subtle. He does get the occasional amphetamine-ish feeling, very very subtle.. not like the first week. That is all
(I think SWIMs little kick made him feel like writing all of this down )

[Nahbus]

SWIM has found that while on wellbutrin, if he has caffeine.. he will literally get a kick that feels better than adderall. Today he is on 2-3 hours of sleep (he is very insomniatic.. is that a word?) and he had a coffee in the morning.. wasn't tired. Then around lunch time had a sandwhich and a soda and has been ZOOMING around his apartment ever since (maybe like 3 hours ago?).. BLASTING music.. very happy random smiles.. air drumming.
Says it feels way cleaner than adderall.. and has yet to experience any sort of 'crash'.
He also think that his bad episodes were due to marijuana the night before. It does say it can cause psychosis... which SWIM is very prone to. He had not smoked last night, today he is on top of the world. Hell.. his legs haven't stopped bouncing since like 5 hours ago.
Not as much motivation to get stuff done... just random FUN energy this time. Very very interesting.
SWIM always seems to luck out with his brain chemistry(well... involving effects from drugs. He has bad luck with his coctail of bi-polar disorder, anxiety and a dash of schizotypical behavior. BOO on that shit). If he can have simple caffeine and get like this on occassion.... holy hell.
CAFFETAMINE
Must do more 'experimenting' as the days go on. He will lay off the pot for a bit, see if he still feels great, test out this caffeine kick (sometimes it just made him jittery and anxious... but then again he has smoked pot the nights before, so there seems to be some sort of connection).
Aright, SWIM is going to go enjoy himself now. Will report more when he has better info.

[London_Bloke]

SWIM's cavy was taking Wellbutrin SR (BID) when she first started experimenting with 2C-I and found that her test cavy received ZERO response from several attempts with increasing dose, starting with 10mg and ending with 50mg 2C-I (over a period of several weeks), resulting in ever increasing frustration and a certainty SWIM's vendor was to blame. At the suggestion of a very knowledgeable psychonaut who tells SWIM that SSRI's and 2C's are not dangerous, but certainly ineffectual when combined, SWIM's cavy was weaned off Wellbutrin. All was well and cavy reports that 12mg is a lovely place to be. SWIM was glad she considered the SSRI as the culprit before trying to place blame at the feet of vendor. (Bad manners to pop off when totally wrong, eh?......)

SWIM's cavy's mate was taking Lamictal and found that 10mg 2C-E generated mightily uncomfortable shaking. Cavy's mate has since gone off Lamictal but has refused all entreaties to try 2C-E again and squeaks that he greatly prefers 2C-I. Cavy's mate also must forgo his dose of Geodon the night before being subjected to SWIM's experimentation. SWIM's cavy's mate was happy to have an excuse to quit the Lamictal, but prefers daily life with Geodon in his bloodstream.

[Nahbus]

I think it's been about 2 1/2 hours since SWIM posted the above experience. He is now starting to 'come down'. He says it does not feel bad in any way, shape or form. Maybe slight anxiety... but SWIM has anxiety almost everyday anyway. The comedown is actually somewhat soothing and gentle... like someone carefully laying SWIM down in a bed and tucking him in.
He hopes he doesn't get too tired, though, because he did only have 3 hours of sleep and has plans in about 2-3 hours. But today was very, very intense for SWIM. Equally, if not more, intense than his adderall binge, which threw him into a horrible crashing rut for a week. Felt way cleaner, smoother and happier.
Still lot's of variables SWIM needs to experiment with. Maybe he can pinpoint exactly how to get to that point whenever he wants (if it's as simple as having a coffee and soda.... yowzers) he will be one happy camper.
As he was coming down he was still social, talking to his brother with ease, whereas with adderall he would be wishing he would leave his room so SWIM could be alone and sulk.
SWIM thanks his wacky brain chemistry and his odd effects from drugs... today was amazing.
Music was SPECTACULAR.
SWIMs train of thought was very odd and went from totally different subjects every so often.. causing people he was talking to on aim (47h2O ) to say "what the fuck??"
The aim convo was also something along the lines of:
15 lines of text from me.
One from the other person.
13 lines from me.
2 from the other person.
22 lines from me.
one from the other person, etc, etc.
SWIM definately had one crazy/fun ride.
I will let you know how the rest of SWIMs night goes later on. Hopefully he will have enough steam to make it through the night
Haha, maybe SWIM will drink another soda.

[Nahbus]

2 1/2 hours later.
The comedown was very soothing and relaxing, actually.. says SWIM.
He went to McDonalds (very hungry, couldnt finish his food, though) and it was MOBBED. Now, normally SWIM would kinda freak out and get very anxious and probably munch his feet around and be all nervous. Instead, he felt very confident, and actually was trying to hold in laughs at things he thought were funny (ie. the stupid abstract paintings they have on the walls. He was relating them to the mess that is left on the McDonalds tables and thought they were very similar).
Anyway, he is at baseline now... not really all that tired.. but he is feeling quite well!
SWim must say.... this was one of the best stimulant experiences he's ever had.. given the intensity, euphoria, and lack of comedown.
He is absolutely STUNNED and in awe at this.
Now his g/f is coming over and they are going to relax and chill out and watch tv. SWIM feels very comfortable right now... no anxiety at all.
He finds this very bizarre as well. Wellbutrin is supposed to cause a little more anxiety.. but not today!

Trust me, SWIM will post more experiences as he receives them!

[Nahbus]

Ahhh, what a great night SWIM had. swim and his gf had a very good talk that needed to be talked about, and we both feel 100x better. but thats another story.
anyway, SWIM is still awake... and not tired at all. It's almost 12:30. He's, by definition, an insomniac anyway.. but I figured he'd be a bit sleepy with only 2-3 hours of sleep last night. I have a feeling it will be another one of those nights. But hey.. if he's not tired during the day and can function... whats the difference?
(oh besides sleep deprivation causing him more psychosis. let's cross that bridge when we get there, though haha.)

Also, on a rating between Amphetamine, Methylphenidate, Cocaine and Methcathinone... SWIM would say this experience tops them all.
Amazing, really. SWIM loves his brain.
He also hates it, though. It balances out.

[Forthesevenlakes]

How does SWIY hate it? SWI47H2O knows, already, but it may help other forum members to detail the downsides to this drug as well, since many people might be tempted to just jump into a drug experience that promises energy, happiness, productivity, and no need for sleep without considering the negative aspects of this drug.

Interesting how its mechanism of action is unknown, but swim is increasing suspecting dopamine activity more and more...

[Nahbus]

well, SWIM meant he loves/hates his brain. But he has also had his doubts about wellbutrin at first.
His brain: good drug effects, his artistic ability and uniqueness... but then his bipolar/anxiety/schizotypical crap..

With wellbutrin... at first he wasn't sure if he liked it because he was thrown into a depression, on and off for like 2 weeks.. which he found odd. Never has he had bouts of depression with days of being very happy. Then he pretty much realized it was probably weed from the night before. Seemed to have synched up with his depressed (and psychotic) days. And hey look... smoking weed on wellbutrin causes... *gasp*.. psychosis! SWIM is very prone to this... and he is almost completely sure weed had a HUGE role.
That and he was probably edgy from quitting cigs (yay its been like 23 days)
and just stressed out about money and crap.
SWIM is now laying off the weed, he's gonna see how it goes. If he stays this happy for the next few days he can pretty much know for sure.
Anyway.. please wish SWIM luck in his mood tomorrow.. it ha been fluctuating between wicked mania and depression.. like every other day... very odd, usually it goes on for at least a month of ups or downs.
SWIM is pretty confident that he will be good, though!

Hope this helps.
Also... if SWIY are not achieving any sort of 'high' with this drug, dont go poppin/snortin more! It is pretty dangerous and can cause seizures+death. SWIM has a very unique biochemistry and has a vast history of experiencing unique/bizarre/intense/differet effects from drugs.

[Nicaine]

Definitely interesting... SWIM has had much better luck with propylhexedrine than bupropion, i.e. "fun factor" is definitely higher for him. He's never had anywhere near that much fun on bupropion, regardless of dose & other substances involved. Is SWIY taking 300mg/day at this point?

[Nahbus]

Nicaine, yes he is now taking two doses of 150mg SR 2x daily.
And yeah, SWIM does recall propyl being very fun but there were to many side effects for him.. although it was one time so who knows. I think that ship has sailed for him now that he's on wellbutrin, though.

Also:
SWIM got about 6 hours of sleep. Not bad. Heee, my good fellows, is in a faaantastic mood again. It's gotta be the weed that was making him nuts. Definately.
Very, very happy. !

Also, he is following the same routine as yesterday. Large dunkin donuts coffee in the morning. Soda in the afternoon.
Jees, he already kind of feels wired, upon waking!
He is falling in love with Wellbutrin.. he didn't realize he could be this content and at ease! They say it causes anxiety, but SWIM feels as though he could go into a crowd and be the center of attention, as if he were drunk or something (which he will most likely try tonight... he's yet to drink on the stuff. We'll see how that goes)
Anyway. Yep. Later

[Forthesevenlakes]

Start slow with the alcohol. Maybe stop after a couple of drinks for a while, see how SWIY feels. Some people report that after taking antidepressants alcohol affects them alot more than it normally would, so just use caution, since you dont want to find out too late that wellbutrin inhibits the alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme or something and have a killer hangover too.

[Nahbus]

Yeah, if SWIM drinks he plans on drinking one or two and just socializing for an hour or so, and go from there. He used to be perscribed Zoloft and that gave him HORRIBLE hangovers the next day, even after a couple drinks.
Though, wellbutrin is a lot different that Zoloft. Hopefully SWIM doesn't get any bad effects! He sure does like his booze
Though, he may become a cheap date

EDIT:
Haha, imagine how wacked out SWIM would be if he drank SPARKS....
Good god he should probably avoid those drinks now.. haha

[Nahbus]

Well, SWIM had drank a 22oz beer. All is well, very well
SWIM wasn't in the BEST of moods, not a bad mood really.. but about 1/3 of the way through he became very social, singing along to songs with his brother and his brothers gf. Very well indeed.
He definately got more drunk than he would have, but hey... thats not really a bad thing (save some cash ha). Hopefulyl SWIM doesn't wake up with some crazy hangover like he used to on Zoloft!
He doesn't feel as though he will, though.
Anyway.. yay! SWIM can drink

Update:
Ah, its morning. No bad symptoms. His test went well.
He got a VERY pleasant buzz off just 22oz of beer. This is about 1/3 of what SWIM would normally drink to achieve such a buzz, except for the fact that this buzz seemed more euphoric. This was but one experiement, though.

On a side note... since SWIM has not smoked any pot.. he has not had any of those bad symptoms. It was, without a doubt, the marijuana causing his emotional distress. SWIM can't believe how well this anti-depressant is working for him. Nothing else ever worked.. in fact most of them made things worse!
SWIMs life is very well and he is quite content and happy!
Yay.

[hh339]

Interesting thread. I have been taking bupropion for a week now, and I'm about to raise the dose to 300 mg's tomorrow. It has actually started to improve my mood in a very promising way. It may be working somewhat with my extreme concentration problems also, probably. I am very happy to have found out about this substance, so far.

[~lostgurl~]

Great thread indeed, SWIM has a script waiting to be picked up but she keeps delaying it as she wants to be a hundred percent motivated to quitting smoking first. Nahbus can you give us an update, are you still taking bupropion?