Combinations - Kratom -- the perfect 'comedown' aid?

[Nicaine]

SWIM has tried various comedown aids (to various substances that have comedowns, of course ) and in his opinion kratom is the best he's found for just about everything (so far).

* It has a stimulating component combined with opiate-like effects, which is perfect to soften the landing from any stimulant. Provides a "second wind" effect along with psychological cushioning, and substantially elevates mood as well.

* It isn't so strong as to begin another powerful "high" in itself, nor is its dependency potential really high like most benzos and opiates. Although dependency is possible, it takes weeks/months of regular use to develop, and withdrawals are neither intense nor protracted (SWIM's personal experience).

* It has never presented a problem to SWIM used while the main substance is still active, i.e. allowing the main substance to wear off completely appears to be relatively unimportant. Nor has it had negative cardiovascular effects, like those SWIM has noted with marijuana used shortly after heart stressing stimulants.

SWIM recommends this herb highly to anyone still searching for the perfect comedown aid to their favorite substance. Hypothetically speaking, of course. "Commercial grade" Bali leaf in a ground/powdered form is recommended for the full spectrum of effects, rather than an extract product. Approx. 10g packed into capsules or made into a tea should be about right for the average person.

[radiometer]

SWIMs found this very useful after methylone (actually, he's found opiods in general to be wonder-workers in this regard). Not only does it kill the craving for more drugs, it puts SWIM in a contented, social mood until it's time for sleep. It can be a bitch to drink kratom tea after stimulants, so SWIM recommends packing some powder into capsules.

[snapper]

SWIM finds Kratom too stimulating to combine with other stimulants. SWIM easily gets unpleasant tachycardia and edginess with this combo. Otherwise kratom is fine. SWIM has noticed low doses are more stimulating, so maybe SWIM should try a high dose for coming down in the future.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by snapper

SWIM finds Kratom too stimulating to combine with other stimulants. SWIM easily gets unpleasant tachycardia and edginess with this combo. Otherwise kratom is fine. SWIM has noticed low doses are more stimulating, so maybe SWIM should try a high dose for coming down in the future.

SWIM agrees, kratom can be too stimulating when combined with other stimulants (producing unpleasant anxiety/agitation).

However, there are many alkaloids in kratom that seriously redeem it as a comedown aid for stimulants. From one of kratom's most renowned experts:

http://www.murple.net/yachay/index.php/Kratom

Kratom also contains several Uncaria alkaloids which are also found in the South American medicinal plant cat's claw. The most dominant one in kratom is mitraphylline, which has shown activity as a vasodilator and lowers blood pressure. It is also a myorelaxant (muscle relaxer).

Rhynchophylline also lowers blood pressure by blocking the voltage-dependent calcium and potassium channels, dilating peripheral blood vessels, and lowering heart rate. It also has antiarrhythmic properties, lowers cholesterol and prevents blood clots by inhibiting platelet aggregation and thrombosis.

The alkaloid ajmalicine (also called raubasine), which is also found in Indian snakeroot (Rauvolfia serpentina) and Madagascar periwinkle (Catharanthus roseus), has multiple pharmacological activities. It inhibits platelet aggregation by means of an inhibitory action on the release reaction of the platelets. It increases oxygen availability in the brain, which has led to its use in cognitive disorders in the elderly and in stroke ischemia, especially in a drug combination with almitrine marketed as Duxil. It has sedative and anticonvulsive properties due to agonist activity at the [3H]flunitrazepam benzodiazepine receptor. It also acts as an antiadrenergic by blocking alpha-1-adrenergic receptors, which makes ajmalicine lower blood pressure and act as a diuretic by relaxing smooth muscle. Another indole which kratom shares with Madagascar periwinkle is tetrahydroalstonine, which has been shown to lower blood sugar levels and acts as a blocker at the alpha-2-adrenergic receptors.

Ajmalicine (Raubasine): Cerebrocirculant, antiaggregant, anti-adrenergic (at alpha-1), sedative, anticonvulsant, smooth muscle relaxer. Mitraphylline: Vasodilator, antihypertensive, muscle relaxer, diuretic, anti-amnesic, possible immunostimulant. Paynantheine: Smooth muscle relaxer. Rhynchophylline: Vasodilator, antihypertensive, calcium channel blocker, antiaggregant, anti-inflammatory, antipyretic, anti-arrhythmic, antithelmintic. Speciogynine: Smooth muscle relaxer. Tetrahydroalstonine: Hypoglycemic, anti-adrenergic (at alpha-2).

To put it another way, kratom not only makes a person feel good, but it contains alkaloids which have physical effects that are very helpful to someone who's been on stimulants for awhile. A bit of anxiety for a portion of the buzz seems a small price to pay; or just wait until the stimulant wears off 90%+ and even that shouldn't happen. SWIM always waited 45 min. or so after a cola run before drinking a cup of kratom tea. He would then stay awake and enjoy kratom's effects for 4-6 hours (allowing time for nasal swelling to go down as well), followed by a deep and renewing sleep when the kratom wore off.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good info

[Nicaine]

Edit -- double post (weird). See post immediately above this one.

[sterling77]

SWIM imagines it would be great for after MDMA. And even moreso because it has anti-oxidants in it, so it's a two in one deal.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by sterling100

SWIM imagines it would be great for after MDMA. And even moreso because it has anti-oxidants in it, so it's a two in one deal.

SWIM has found it to be absolute perfection as a cocaine comedown aid, almost like it was made for that purpose. He just can't imagine anything better, as it adds those vasodilating/ warming/heart stabilizing effects to the opiate receptor tweakage and mild antidepressant-like stimulation that just makes a person feel GOOD... even immediately after coming down from cola! It's really remarkable how fast it can make a person feeling horrendous after a long coke roll start feeling fantastic instead.

Only downside is that any coke-related depression can return after coming down off the kratom.

[ramjet]

SWIM has only just experienced the high strength extract, and was very pleased with the results. However, SWIM had real trouble sleeping afterwards (even after 2 anti-hist sleeping tabs), and SWIM's heart was pounding like mad. Is this unusual? I thought kratom was a depressant with opium like qualities, but notices that snapper find it stimulating. SWIM did take the coke and the kratom at the same time.

Does tolerance build quite quickly to kratom? How much do you usually consume and how long after/during a coke binge do you take it? I only ask because coke comedowns are getting worse for SWIM and a nice come down aid would be lovely. When SWIM was taking the two together, he found that it really took the edge off the comedown. In fact, all he really experienced was serious cravings 30 mins after each line. So SWIM would be interested in when the optimum time to take the kratom would be.

In fact, I'll stop rambling and post an experience report for SWIM.