Drug info - Do different brands of Ketamine feel different?

[Beltane]

SWIM has used many different brands of K in the past. He doesn't feel much if any difference between brands. Several of his friends, however, say that they notice large diferences from one brand to the next. I'm curious to see what other people have to say about the differences in effects between the various brands of ketamine.

Thanks-

- Beltane

[enquirewithin]

Jansen and others say that the stereo isomers of ketamine have different effects. Ketalar, for example, was a racemic mixture (and also contained another chemical which may have had deleriant properties).

Erowid has a Q&A on this:

The two enantiomers of ketamine, R-ketamine and S-ketamine will have different levels of effect. It is often the case that one stereoisomer is much more active than the other, as it fits into the site of action correctly while the other is poking off the wrong way. In the case of ketamine, it has been found that the S(+) isomer is more active than the R(-) isomer.

In SWIM's experince different brands are very different. Some are much more 'psychedelic' than others, seemingly because they contain more of, or only, the S(+) isomer.

[Psych0naut]

Ketanest, which SWIM had a few bottles of, contained pure (s)ketamine, which was alot stronger than racemic ketamine.

[enquirewithin]

^More 'psychedelic' anyway. I'm not sure about as an anesthetic!

[Psych0naut]

Seems like I have promised to write down the interesting stuff about s-ketamine... Let's see what I can do. I think in this case it would be best to write about the patterns I have noticed in the course of several experiences instead of describing one particular journey.

So I was lucky to find some sealed vials of Ketanest S by Parke-Davis, so there's no doubt that I'm talking about what I'm talking about.

Potency

If I recall correctly, the stereoisomer s-ketamine is supposed to be (apart from possible qualitative differences) twice as potent as r-ketamine. Which means that 75mg of s-ketamine should have about the potency of 100mg (my regular im-dose) of the racemic. This sounds right to me. 75mg would do a reliable job of taking me on vacation, maybe even more so than 100mg of the racemic would. With the racemic I'd sometimes (maybe 5%) experience a dud, a trip that wouldn't take off. In contrast, all of the s-trips I've had up to now met or surpassed my expectations...

Duration

Whereas the regular k-trip lasts about 45-60 minutes for me, it's only 30 minutes with the s-ketamine. However, these 30 minutes seem much longer than a regular k-trip! I know the feeling of 'back so soon?' after resurfacing from regular k, with the s-ket however I seem to be in the infinite place for much longer, and being aware of it. In a way it reminds me of taking ketamine with a booster like 2cb.

Effects I noticed...

In the take-off and also during the trip, I didn't see and feel as many wide open spaces as I was used to. That was a pity since I liked that part.

Most of the time I had an exquisite, blissful feeling of who/what I was. For some part it was a body feeling, but even when I didn't have a body and was just a small ball of pure consciousness that felt very good.

Phases of the journey: 1) Take-Off

I'm not sure but take-off seems slightly slower, and there is a more pronounced hissing carrier-tone. This is the part where I'm still aware of things, feeling the onset, trying to push it in the right, pleasant direction. Sometimes I actually feel slightly anxious 'Is this it? There doesn't seem to be too much going on?!' Then there's some sort of a cut and I don't notice the transition to

Phases of the journey: 2) Zero gravity

I'm at the place to be... Lot's of things are going on. This is roughly the same as on regular k, although I think I feel more aware of things, and remember it better. Not in a way that I'd be able to write it down for you, but it's still with me. On several occasions I went to the place where all things begin, or all things end, just short of the point where time stops. On the last journey I ended up being just a small ball of consciousness floating alone in space, and that was all there was, and God assured me telepathically that that indeed was all there was and that it was fine... So quite often I end up in a very weird world, dimly aware that there used to be some other reality but quite sure that this was the real real for now, and possibly for the future.

Phases of the journey: 3) Paragliding downwards

At some point I start being aware of my outer surroundings, in a vague and abstract way at first. This phase definitely feels longer and more pleasurable to me than on regular k. It mostly looks like an 'enhanced reality' kind of a virtual reality superimposed on the real world. So I may have the feeling of lying in my room (like you also can imagine your room after closing your eyes) but an improved version, maybe larger, with cooler furniture and stuff... Maybe in some other cool place I'd enjoy, a place I'd invent for myself. The difference to phase 2 is that these whould be physical places instead of the more abstract energy places. The interesting contrast to having a daydream of, say, being at a beatiful island is that on s-ket (also on k but this here feels more distinct) you're very vividly inside your imagination, like having an especially vivid dream...

Nearer to the ground, when I'm more and more aware of my body, that body feels very strange on regular k: all skin and bones, the skin has a texture like paper, but it's actually fun touching it. And I have this weird, almost compulsory urge to move my fingers in complex, repetitive patterns. I usually enjoy these physical expressions of the k state but they weren't especially noticable on s-ket. Too bad.

Recovery

Recovery seems subjectively faster, I haven't measured it though. But I think speech and coordination come back faster.

On the whole

Being a seasoned, maybe even slightly jaded k-traveller, this last journey on s-ket still left me thinking 'Holy shit, oh my god...' when I finally touched ground again. Maybe this says it all.

Source:Erowid

Reputation Comments on this post:

Great detail on K post!

[DonPeyote]

The "Best" K SWIK ever tried, came from a no-name lab based in Tijuana.
She suspects it was the pure S-stereoisomer. This K was absolutely euphoric and gentle. Quite addictive actually.

SWIK has tried at least 6 different brands (Ketalar, Ketaset, Ttokkyo, Ketavet, and? cant remember), most seemed very similar. One brand, She can't recall the name, gave SWIK quite a paranoid feeling. Some say that the preservative in certain brands can have its own strange effect.


DP

[CrookedEye]

SWIM has definitely felt a huge diference between K brands.. It's been awhile since SWIM indulged, however, when he did K, some brands would make him feel almost sick and lethargic, while some brands made him have some extremely powerful visions... He read the thoughts on the racemic mixture and it seems to fit perfectly with his experience.. Definitely a good discussion here, though.. SWIM supposes it could have been set and setting, but feels much more strongly that the mix had more to do with it than anything..

[primal440]

As SWICrookedEye, SWIM also feels dramatic differences between different brands of ketamine. But in his experience, the most changes are noticeable in their side-effects and not so much for the experience itself, that is not to say there are no differences but SWIM wouldn't go as far as saying "this one's more trippy and euphoric" or stuff like that, but still he aknowledges there are also significant differences with the experience itself. SWIM's first badge of K was hist most potent, he doesnt know the name of the brand but the powder was of a yellowish tint and he reckons it must have been pure and not racemic, as it was his best and more powerful K, really smooth and gentle like someone else has pointed out, and with a much more marked bizarre physical sensation; heavier, his best experiences have been with this badge... however while coming down he also has had the most problems, this one kept him dehyrated and dazed and confused for some hours after the "trip".

He then tried this other, this time from a vial labeled as "Cost, Ketamina". This one was smoother physically, hit more brutally one the onset and tended to not get me to the same beautiful mental dimensions easily as the other one did (K-Hole), one had the tendency to not be absorved completely by the compound and the trip would be much more influenced by external factor such as noise, light, etc. Its like you still kept some molecules of your feet on ground. The after trip felt less hard on the body and almost had no dehydration. From what Ive gathered here it seems this was def. a racemic mixture as the same amount of shit would not put him where the other one did.

He then got this one from Bolivia, some generic racemic formula he reckons as the effects were much more like the second generation of K he had but the physical sensations were much more pronounced. The comedown was easy as well and no dehydration.

From SWIM's experience different ketamines will differ mostly on: potency (75 mgs in one equalling 100 mgs in another) and side-effects, while the experience itself will also have some subtle differences but these can also be influenced by the user's mind state, expectations, etc.

[bewilderment]

Have any lab monkeys sampled the Aneket brand of ketamine? It's mentioned in an older thread here that I found: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4578

Swim knows someone offering this and has sampled two batches of the same brand of ketamine before. She doesn't know the brand, but is trying to find out what it was at the moment and she wants to find out how the two would compare.

So, does anyone know about the quality of aneket?