Friend was cautioned for possession of coke

[ramjet]

One sure fire way of ruining a night out.

The point of this post was

1. To let people in the UK know that the police are willing to deal with coke possession by way of a caution.

2. To warn people of the unscrupulous ways police and club owners are catching drug users now: my friend was caught with a swab test which was hiden to the side of a club entrance (my friend should have thrown his drugs on the floor when he saw the test but was too mashed to think of this). The police, who were also hiding to the side of the entrance grabbed him as soon as he tested positive and led him out of the door to be searched. He stupidly decided to try to locate the drugs and throw them. They noticed, handcuffed him, found the drugs and took him to the station where he was cautioned.

3. To ask whether anyone is in the legal profession here and knows if this will ruin his chances of getting admitted to the roll by the Law Society (he is trainee solicitor, like myself). He has done plenty of research and it would seem that it is offences of dishonesty they are really looking for. They want to know your clients will be safe and this does not amount to drug taking at work or even on a work night, so there is no reason to suppose he is putting his clients at risk in any way. Also I believe employers have to prove on balance of probabilities that the drug use/conviction/caution has a detrimental effect on your ability to do the job. Still, some reassurance on his behalf would be good.

[Lunar Loops]

Sorry, I can't really help on the legal side of things, but I do have a question. Where in the UK are we talking about here? I posted a news article some time ago about this sort of thing being trialled in parts of the West Country, but had heard little about it since. A worrying trend for UK club-goers I would have thought.

[grecian]

Originally Posted by shroomonger

Sorry, I can't really help on the legal side of things, but I do have a question. Where in the UK are we talking about here? I posted a news article some time ago about this sort of thing being trialled in parts of the West Country, but had heard little about it since. A worrying trend for UK club-goers I would have thought.

Do u know of any specific towns/cities involved in this west country trial. id like to know more information on this as my home town is Exeter and im transfering uni to bristol next week.

[zera]

The complete arbitrariness of who to charge and arrest is really the reason that the drug war has such a disproportionately high effect on minorities and people in the lower classes. Unlike other crimes police have the arbitrary ability to let someone off or not ("Okay I'm giving you a warning this time for burglary"). Of course they're going to favor the well-off over the poor, SWIM being a clean cut white kid can vouch for how easy he has it with cops.

SWIM goes to a university located in the ghetto and he has personally seen white college buy drugs from black residents and the police catching them and telling the college kid to go home while arresting the black guy.

[Lunar Loops]

Originally Posted by grecian

Do u know of any specific towns/cities involved in this west country trial. id like to know more information on this as my home town is Exeter and im transfering uni to bristol next week.

Sorry for the delay in responding Grecian. I've been unusually busy these last few weeks and not getting on here anywhere near as often as I'd like. I know nothing of Exeter (well apart from watching the mighty Alty get beat there last season) in terms of testing, but not sure whether or not you'd be safe anywhere with these sort of trends. Anyway, the article I referred to was actually to do with finger-tip scanning in Yeovil (see http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...ghlight=yeovil).

[Riconoen {UGC}]

here in the states clubs usually don't check for drugs becuase the owners care more about money than the law which in this case is a good thing. but swim would get an attorney and sue for unnessacary search and siezure without probable cuase if there is such a thing in the UK. best of luck to you and your freind in any case.

[Each Hit]

correct me if i'm wrong, but searching prior to admittance to a club does not count as unreasonable. that club is private property, so if you are going to go in, the owner has the right to make sure you don't bring anything illegal inside. i am unclear on what exactly the authorities did to test (and what they were testing for). pardon my lack of knowledge on international drug-screening procedures, but could you please explain what happened in more detail?

[ramjet]

This was in Stafford, which is a fairly small town near Wolverhampton and Birmingham. It was in a late night bar called the "Litten Tree", which seemed to have teamed up with the police to do the tests. The tests were being run by the police, and the place was overrun with them. My friend even tried to get out of the queue when he realised what was going on (by pretending he had an urgent phone call), but the plain clothes copper doing the drug test wouldn't let him leave.

I have never encountered any tests like that when I go out in Birmingham (where I live), but who knows what'll happen in the future. It may be some sort of trial. Then again, I grew up in Stafford and remember the Stafford police being particularly anti-drugs. Sometimes small town police can actually be far more vigilent than big city police.

[grecian]

sounds to me like this place has gained a reputation or had complaints against it. litten tree is a national chain and would not want theses scenes repeated over the country.
also it seems like the police had no right to search swiys friend. was he queing (sp) inside or outside?

anyone who gets searched like this and nothing is found should take the cops number and make a harrasment claim at the nearest police station. also make sure the police are maing a record of the search as they are requied by law to do this.

[ramjet]

Yeah could well be. We were queuing in between the two doorways that made up the entrance. The test itself was hidden inside and to the side of the entrance, so you couldn't see it until it was too late (sods).

I hope this doesn't catch on. Neither myself nor my friend will be taking drugs out with us any more (well, maybe occasionally to alternative dance venues where you know full well there'll never be any such tests, because the club itself is selling drugs through bouncers and everyone in there is on drugs eg the xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx). It's just too risky. Our careers could be at stake.

Anyone know anything about cautions (for drug use in particular) and how they're perceived by employers in the UK?

[Each Hit]

wow!! that depiction seems to be an utter violation of rights. they did conduct the test inside the club, but only a cop would pull the "you have to stay in line" bullshit.

swim has only been checked for drugs one time at a club, but it was a pretty pathetic attempt. before paying the cover, the bouncer said "empty your pockets and put everything on the counter." having just purchased a quarter ounce of quality marijuana, i was completely unprepared. of course, i left the bag in my pocket, and the bouncer never knew anything. just a quick anecdote...

[grecian]

lol gotta love bouncers they are so intelligent

you dont have to declare a caution to employers as it isnt a conviction. however any employer entitled to use a CRB (criminal records bureau) check* could be informed of a caution for possesion, but they are also obliged to act on any information they find out sensibly and fairly. therefore unless you are applying for a job in the army/police etc you are unlikely to have a problem because of a possesion caution.

if u feel that an employer has taken an unfair decision based on your caution then u are within your rights to challenge the decision or take legal action.

you are right carrying drugs is risky but there are ways to get away with it more easily. google stop and search rules. there are loopholes for instance police are only allowed to search outer clothing. if u dont know your rights then the police will NOT respect your rights


*the employer must inform you if there will be a CRB check before you apply

The question was raised about whether the cautioned person can be admitted as a solicitor in the UK. I believe cautions would need to be disclosed to the Law Society for membership. You can contact their professional ethics team confidentialy to discuss this anonomously (and their likely view). The main question is whether the person could now be deemed to be a suitable member of the profession, or as being likely to bring the profession into disrepute. Bear in mind that such a judgement would need to be considerred from both a practitioners point of view and the perspective of a reasonable member of the public. There doubtless will be precedents for this and I wouldn't become too dispondent without a fight - after all, here maybe is his first chance at advocacy. Although the profession is very sensitive to dishonesty matters and other characteristics, many solicitors remain of the roll with various criminal convictions, perhaps the best approach is that whilst fully acknowledging the gravity of Class A drugs matters before the law, a caution is what its called, its a warning not a punishment - to have a career quashed by a caution would seem beyond the intention of the legislators.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good first post! Welcome.

[ramjet]

Thankyou, those are extremely helpful posts! I know my friend has to complete a CRB check 8-12 weeks before admission. The real question is whether to tell the law society now, or leave it until later. One of the things my friend was taking into consideration is that he hasn't worked for the company he is training with for over a year, so unfair dismissal rules do not apply yet, and won't apply until next year (he qualifies the year after that, in 2008). On the other hand, it might go in his favour if he discloses the matter now rather than later. He isn’t sure. I'll certainly recommend contacting the professional ethics team.

I've looked for precedents on the internet, but all I could find with regards drug cases were solicitors smuggling drugs into prison or court, which is obviously a far more serious offence.

Welcome on board Bikelbees. If you registered with thesole intention of answering this question then many thanks, my friend is in a real pickle.

[Lunar Loops]

Thanks for the answer ramjet....an alarming trend indeed if it is to spread.

[Freak_]

Same thing happened to SWIM in a Club in Germany. Police was hidden inside right behind the bouncers and took SWIM in a tent with some separees they build up in the foyer. They had no tests like ramjet mentioned, they dont let SWIM out once he was inside, before the place you pay entrance. The Policeman asked SWIM if he had any illegals. SWIM said No. Policeman searched, found a little bit amphetamine, noted SWIMs Name from ID and sayd if SWIM had told him he had something illegal nothing had happened and he could go on partying, but 'cause SWIM said no to the question if he had any illegals he will get mail from police and the entrance to the club was denied for this day. SWIM never got any mail from police, SWIM thinks the policeman used SWIMs amph himself ;-)