MDMA and Valium

[cydonicmark]

Hi everyone, has anyone done or does anyone know what effect combing mdma and valium(diazepam) has, does it increase the mdma effects or decrease them. SWIM needs urgent information on this

[Nature Boy]

Not a good mix. One being a stimulant, the other being a sedative, they would counter-act to nullify the effects with the added trouble of putting the heart under unusual stress. Best do them apart.

[Psych0naut]

Valium is nice on the come-down though, it makes SWIY much more relaxed and it's easier to sleep after the role, but combining it hasn't much use and is dangerous for the heart.

[radiometer]

I can just about promise that if you go to the ER for an MDMA overdose, the very first drug they will probably give you is either going to be IV diazepam or IV lorazepam.

Stimulants + Depressants = Bad = Myth

The only time there is the potential for a dangerous interaction would be either metabolically (like P450 inhibition/saturation) or secondarily (some depressants paradoxically increase BP, some depressants cause ataxia and you could fall and crack your melon while dancing, etc), or if abnormal amounts of either drug was administered.

I have never seen any credible evidence that suggests that normal doses of benzodiazepines are dangerous to combine with CNS stimulants in normal metabolisers.

[Psych0naut]

SWIM has read that the combination of CNS stimulants with CNS depressants puts more stress on the heart and vascilure system combined than one of them alone.
If he thinks about it does make sense, the heart is being pulled at by both sides, the depressants are trying to slow the heart while the stimulants are trying to speed the heart rate up.
But if SWIRadiometer could post a link with concreat proof that the combination of CNS stimulants with CNS depressants doesn't cause much more damage than one of them alone than that would proof it.

[WrtngCocaineTutorial]

"SWIM has read that the combination of CNS stimulants with CNS depressants puts more stress on the heart and vascilure system combined than one of them alone."

swim has read this about heroin+coke, one wears off before the other and heart arrytimia can occur


benzo's don't have that big of a impact on the heart..

EDIT: put in the exerpt i read

Originally Posted by from [url

http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/cocaine/mixing.htm[/url] ]"heroin known as a 'speedball', the two drugs amplify each other - cocaine acts as powerful stimulant, causing a rapid heartbeat, but wears off more quickly than heroin, which then slows the heart down. As a result, your heart can lose rhythm entirely increasing the risk of heart failure. John Belushi and River Phoenix died taking speedballs."

but to put things in perspective, SWIm thinks it's much,much more dangerous to mix depressant+deprassant, or stimulant+stimulant

[radiometer]

Aha, I KNEW John Belushi and speedballs (what a fucking stupid slang term BTW) would show up in this thread.

MDMA + Valium does not = Heroin + cocaine!!!

Go call an emergency room and ask them with what drugs they would treat an MDMA overdose. If they tell you that Valium is dangerous to administer to someone on MDMA, who is a normal metaboliser, I'll send you my iPod.

Here's another way to look at this: Panic attacks cause heart rate and blood pressure to rise, just like a CNS stimulant. Is it also dangerous, therefore, to give benzodiazepines to someone having a panic attack?

As for proof - I'm the one who's asking for it. The burden of proof is on the one who makes a claim, not the skeptic. Several people in this thread claim it is dangerous to coadminister MDMA and Valium, in normal doses. I don't believe this claim, and I am asking for some evidence. If this is so risky, surely there must be some medical or academic literature from which to quote on the subject. I'm all ears..

[WrtngCocaineTutorial]

hehe SWIm wrote "benzo's don't have that big of a impact on the heart.."
he's not trying to use John Belushi as a argument against benzo's and MDMA he's talking about the most extreme "downer" combined with a upper

Originally Posted by radiometer

I'll send you my iPod.

LoL

[Psych0naut]

SWIM knows benzodiazepines are extensively used with MDMA,amphetamine and methamphetamine overdose, mainly because of it's anti-convulsant effects and also to calm a patient down.
Could someone explain what makes the combination of heroine with cocaine so dangerous, and does it have anything to do with it's CNS effects at all?

[radiometer]

I asked an MD friend on another board, who is very knowledgable regarding MDMA, for his opinion on this topic and received this reply:

i am a physician and we are taught to give benzos for people who have stable respiratory status and are suffering from the side effects of stimulants. that is what is taught in medical schools and that is what is taught in hospitals. if those people wish to believe otherwise then they can go to the hospital and find out for themselves.

interesting side note - the 80 hour limitation on weekly hours for medical residents was largely a response to a huge lawsuit brought up in NYC after the death of libby zion, a young female patient and also the daughter of a prominent newspaper editor. she came to the ER overdosed on cocaine but (unknown to the ER resident) was also taking a MAO inhibitor for depression. she received meperidine for either pain or anxiety (not that one should use painkillers to treat anxiety), went into serotonin syndrome, and died (the resident was blamed, the long work hours were blamed, and pressure was created to limit resident work hours). so yes, there are uncommon circumstantial instances where stimulants and depressants should not be combined acutely. but overall there is no contraindication.

[GHBaddict]

Take Valium before taking Pills. Because the Val brings you rite down.. then when you take the pills, the come-up is AMAZING. Also, taking Val after Pills helps you sleep. Mixing these substances is not dangerous in SWIMs opinion

[radiometer]

Taking diazepam before MDMA will noticably attenuate the effects of the MDMA.

[Nagognog2]

If you wind up in the hospital on an overdose of, say, DOI (happened to a chimp I know), you likely would be given valium or similar benzodiazepine. Just use caution. It is easy to overdo such on your own.

[raven3davis]

SWIM took 10mg of valium before a rave and once he got into the rave enviroment he decided to take 120mg of MDMA. He had not taken MDMA in months so tolerance or an inadequate amount of seratonin available was not the issue. 120mg did not hit him hard at all so he took another 120mg cap. That did the trick and got his eyes to fultter, but he spent way more on molly than he planned.

240mg of MDMA would normally have been way too much for SWIM, but in this case, it was barely enough. Save the valium for the comedown. SWIM sure wishes he had.