Opinions - Hangover and creativity

[psyche]

First of all, do you feel that your creativity is enhanced by hangover. Secondly, do any of you have an idea why is that? Metabolites? It seems to me that they are only toxic. Is brain somehow (temporarily) damaged so that firing patterns go more randomly causing seemingly more creativity?

[tre2005be]

i've never really thought about it before but i often have abstract thoughts when nursing a hangover, and quite often solve problems that have been running round my head.

good question

[Nature Boy]

SWIM oftens finds himself waking up early when he's hungover as opposed to the usual stoned sleep into the afternoon. I wouldn't so much say that a hangover boosts creativity, it just boosts occupying oneself with something because it's better to overcome the hangover with some sort of activity rather than just sitting there and accepting it.

[DEViANCE]

Originally Posted by Nature Boy

SWIM oftens finds himself waking up early when he's hungover

Strange, I have just turned the radio on and caught a converstation between the talk show host and their guest. This is how it went.

They would have to second what Nature Boy said, they too wake up early on a hangover. Even when they need to sleep.

As for boosting creativity they cannot confirm they have had any such phenomenon in fact the opposite and as a music producers they find that any work done on the day of the hangover sounds good though when listened back on a day later or so it doesn't sound as it should so for them the enhancment is artificial.

However.... their mindset is altered and they certainly do feel someone different in their persona on certain hangovers, their thought processes are altered slightly and they find they can say things to people that they wouldn't normally say. They seem to be overtly direct and forward in their communications and what they are thinking. This is on no bad scale as they can still refrain from holding back things that are best not said but they do seem to be much more open and honest.

[psyche]

I don't think I buy the occipying-theory. I and my friends agree that my imagination flies higher when hang over. Also, my hangovers are usually mostly tiredness and I feel sometimes even better than normal. SWIM was hang over at morning and he started wondering if there's some good explonation. Actually it was SWIMs friend who first thought that hangover enhances creativity and SWIM found the same to be true when he payed attention to it.

[Metternich]

Swim has found that thier creativity suffers when feeling ill, and hangovers have no creative effect. For Swim a hangover is like a period of depression, and they cannot move themself to do anything remotely useful or diverting other than shutting the blinds. Not that Swim is wallowing in it, it's just that when they get hangovers they get them bad and then it just hurts to even think.

this is interesting though. swim hasn't heard of "creative hangovers" before and would like to read more experiences/opinions.

[Akewstick]

SWIM got the grades at A level this summer, C D E, the Subject he got a C in, he did 2 exams with a hangover, and 2 stoned, and 2 sober, and the other 2 subjects he did 100% sober.

What does this prove? Probably just that he was much better the first subject, and would have got A/B if he'd have straightened up, but this isn't the conclusion he wants to draw from it. So he hasn't.

[psyche]

I'm not saying my thinking abilities would be increased, no, I forget words often on hang over. Just that my thoughts go wilder and my wordchoices are more random i.e "creative", even considered afterwards. But it's nothing comparable to weed or any psychedelic drug indeed.

Early waking is logical because alcohol greatly reduces the quality of sleep. That contributes to part of the hang over. In addition to that is obvious loss of fluids, instant withdrawal and alcohols toxic metabolites. Drinking liters of beer or cider can contribute to the stomach discomfort.

[Forthesevenlakes]

maybe it has to do with the fact that alcohol is a depressant. after any drug use, theres a rebound effect that usually takes the form of effects opposite to what the drug would produce. so, after a dose of a depressant like this, the brain would increase its firing rate (presumably) thus leading to more brain activity and for swiy, more creativity. thats swim's .02 anyway.

[psyche]

You are right, lakes, wonder how I didn't come to think that. Altough it might be only part of it but definately good point. Are shaky hands also explained by desensitisation of DA receptors (at basal ganglia) or having too litlle DA like in Parkinson's.

[Forthesevenlakes]

hm. could be action at the basal ganglia or cerebellum...but swim is guessing that its probably cerebral overactivity and thus overstimulation that is causing the hand tremors...not a dopamine deficiency like in parkinson's. its probably still gaba-mediated you know? like maybe there is a "usual" level of dopamine in these areas but less gaba than normal providing inhibition there.

[izzy31]

Headaches and nausea doesn't make me creative at all.

[fatmanstan]

SWIM heard once upon a time that one of alcohol's (ethanol's) metabolites is a stimulant. SWIM used to get drunk almost for the stimulation he got the next day. He finds that he definitely works alots harder at work if he has had one too many the night before. If he has had about 12 too many, different story altogether. From SWIM's point of view, the stimulation is strictly physical, ie want to get moving and doing something, not really creative, ie working on a speech/essay or graphics type stuff (brain work).

[azrael2600]

swims creativity level is severely impaired when having a hangover. Swim doen'st get head aches when having a hangover, but gets a more of head cloudiness going on, which severely impairs swims thoughts.

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by azrael2600

swims creativity level is severely impaired when having a hangover. Swim doen'st get head aches when having a hangover, but gets a more of head cloudiness going on, which severely impairs swims thoughts.

That sounds like swim. He doesn't understand how one could get increased creativity from the day-after effects of consuming alcohol.

Even if he gets "different" thoughts (not necessarily creative) his mind is so clouded and tired theres not much to do with them.

[fnord]

just hook yourself up to an ive before you sleep and youll be fine in the morning

[dangerousdave]

I awlays get very abstract thoughts when nursing a hangover after excessive drinking, they often seem clear and absolute. These thoughts often are followed / preceded by periods of confusion. Whilst my mind feels 'clear and absolute' i tend to feel rather disasociated from my body, and emotions feel relativly blank. It is also a relaxed state, I become more open to suggestion. I believe it can make me feel more creative; I have on occasion written stories / mini essays on subjects whilst in this state, which is not something I would normally do.

[psilocybin]

sorry didn't read all the replies. when i get a hangover i get them really bad, and relly often! i get really horny when i'm hung over even when i feel like im gonna be sick. i always assumed this was due to hormone levels, like testosterone being different.. anyone else noticed this?

[Tony Blair]

I've noticed all of the above, it can go anywhichway

[Frankster420]

swim is intrigued that hangovers actually cause creativity because for SWIM they just cause very unpleasent naseua and headaches.

[bcubed]

i get really horny when i'm hung over even when i feel like im gonna be sick.

Seconded. Heard about increased libido during H W/D and just assumed that increased libido with hangover is just a subtle alcohol W/D symptom.

An alternative explanation is that SWIM has some sort of kink regarding self-debasement and being hungover feeds that kink. (This seems much less likely, though.)

[psyche]

SWIM wanted to elaborate on the 'creativity' when he heard that some members can't even imagine how could hangover in anyway boost 'creativity'. There is a reason to use parentheses, for one thing; it's not the pure creativity that is enhanced as with psychedelics, since the detrimental effects of alcohol are clearly felt.

The core of this 'creativity' is that he feels like having a vast space of words to access easily. His normal speech-rate feels like he is way ahead that and has lots of time to consider the words he uses to the finest detail and slightest difference in implication. He also can quickly form a fitting expression of many words if there's no word that matches exactly what he was trying to say. All in all, he is able to describe his thoughts precisely and fast.

He also is more hilarious than when drunk. Meaning that he is able to find something funny about anything. And this is where the creativity part really lies. He can come up with a things very far flung from the original thing that inspired him. So he usually is joking all the morning with the most original things he has come up with for a long time.

It could be that SWIM has a deficiency of glutamate or some other neurotransmitter, since he is a bit depressed. It's not like he is sad, but nothing holds his interest and he is the opposite in the social situations to what he used to be when younger.

[Benga]

for swim it's not so much the hangover itself than the physical mental exhaution that comes with it. He also gets that after sleepless night at times.
He started noticing some years ago, while improvising that the flow wasn't constant, sometimes it was more connected, and that usually improvisation would be better, more fluid, after say 6 hours of practicing. He was mentioning this to his mentor of the time, complaining about needing such a long "warm up" time to feel well and connected. And then his mentor had a very good reply, which pointed swim in what he feels is the right direction :
"maybe it's not so much that you need 6 hours to warm-up but rather that after 6 hours of playing you're tired and some part of your brain shuts off, which makes you more focused"
ah...somewhat new way of thinking to the swim of back then...
yes, swim believes this is the key to creative mindstates, it's about focus, the kind of inconscious consciousness also found in meditation, zen inspired martial art actions etc.... and it doesn't mean that you have to be tired or hung-over to be creative, but rather that these states help you focus because of the mental or physical overload, your mind goes into a kind of standby mode which helps you to focus, helps the flow of ideas etc...
now the aim of the game for swim is to be able to "control" ( quote marks, because it has more to do with letting go than control) or train himself to have sufficient mental control to go into such states quickly, at anytime...
swim improvises a lot professionally, and for him creativity is not being touched by grace but allowing yourself to go into a special mindstate of connection with yourself, your experience, and the current activity.

on music, swim recommends Kenny Werner's "effortless mastery", which though in swim's opinion contains 50% of overly spiritualist mental lucky charms, also contains some really unique diamonds of a perspective on things...interesting mix, and worth a read.

b

[Saidrocnoc]

SWIM hasn't really noticed any creativity differences during a hangover, but definately has been more productive and doesn't think about things as much as when SWIM is completely sober. SWIM feels like they go with their gut feelings. SWIM hasn't met anyone who is similar. All of SWIMs friends want to lay in bed all day, but SWIM is up at the crack of dawn after a night of heavy drinking. Weird.

[OccularFantasm]

Swim finds with a mild hangover he gets the same symptoms as both azreal and bajeda, the mind-fog. The mild hangover also alleviates swims normal headaches, however an excess hangover simply worsens everything. Swim would have to say that alcohol definatly decreases creativity. Swim would reason that a problem here is the lack of a single definition for creativity. Swim thnks this to be how many ideas are erected for one single object over a given amount of time. Sure noone is ging to sit there and count, but overall swim has noticed significantly less thoughts when hungover. Swims favourite activity at that time is doing nothing staring off into space. Swim thinks what proponents of the other side are trying to express is that it does in fact alter your conciousness, but swim believe that although there is a change in perception, it leads to ones mind being less independent, and significantly more dependent, thus to swim decreasing creativity. Swim finds these effects also occur in anti-psychotic medications. Under the effects of these substances, one becomes more complacent. swim believes this is the reason for the change in creativity.

Also swim notices swim wakes up much earlier when after a night of drinking only if swim is not in swims on bed, becuase when swim is in his nice confy soft warm cozy bed, then swimsleeps til late afternoon. effectively eliminating the worst of the hangover. If one can sleep during time which should not be enjoyable, go for it. It is quite worth it.