4-Hydroxy-lysergic acid amide?

[DJ]

found this in another forum.

"Apparently the enzymes that are responsible for the 4-hydroxy group of psilocin are indifferent to what it is they choose to 4-hydroxylate. He has taken things like DPT or DIPT and put them in the growth media and the fruiting bodies that came out contain 4-hydroxy-DPT or 4-hydroxy-DIPT instead of psilocin." - Shulgin

Would this work for LSA? If so what is the chance that it would be a toxin?

Any input would be nice.

Are you speaking of putting extract of LSA containing seeds in a mushroom grow media? As for whether or not it would work, from what I have been able to read in various places, it would probably work. They seem to 4-hydroxy any tryptamine they get a hold of.

As for toxicity, I couldn't say for sure. Maybe one of the more chemically inclined folk around here would know. You could also ask Dr. Shulgin himself at
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/blg/index.html
If he thinks the question is good enough, he'll answer it on that page. Shit man, he answered one of my stupid questions. I guess it wasn't all that stupid if he was willing to answer it though.



There are no differences but differences of degree between different degrees of difference and no difference.

while it has worked in tryptamines , LSA is not a tryptamine. but you can also ask this question in the *no links to other forums* website in the psycadelic drug forum there, there are some experts in organic chemistry hanging there that will give you a good answer if you cant get answer from shulgin. my 2c is that this will not work

Where do you get that LSA is not a tryptamine? I thought a tryptamine was any chemical that had the tryptamine skeleton as it's base structure, no matter what it does from there. I don't see why it would not work. After all, ergot fungus actually makes LSAs.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Do not post links to other forums, read the rules

[Greenport]

Where is it supposed to bind to? If one looks closely at a molecule containing the ergine structure (the one that contains LSA and LSD), they will notice that there is actually a DMT molecule in it, just like with psilocin and psilocybin.

In psilocin, the 4-position on the whole molecule is substituted with an alcohol group (-OH). With Ergines like LSA, the 4-position is also taken up, by part of a cyclohexyl- group. Because of this, it would probably not be 4-hydroxylated by any mushroom process. If it 'was', what probably would happen is all the stuff that makes an ergine group an ergine group would get knocked off and the fungi would essentially make more psiloc(yb)in from it, but likely it would just remain untouched.

Maybe if there was a living organism that hydroxylated or methoxylated the 5-position, something interesting (or, indeed, scary) might happen.



Above, the 4-position for DMT on both the ergine and psilocin molecules is shown. The DMT molecule is outlined in blue in Ergine. In all of the cases of fungi adding a 4-OH group to a tryptamine as far as science knows, the 4-position has to be open, so it probably can't be substituted.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good information
	good info