Acorus Calamus - 98% Pure Alpha Asarone extract

[IdiotBox]

So SWIM is just wondeing if anyone out there has experience with this extract. Rumor has it that Alpha Asarone is converted to TMA-2 in the body, but SWIM cannot find any support for this claim. Alpha Asarone is mentioned in PIHKAL as a natural precursor to the TMA-X's but SWIM cannot find much about the activity of the isolate itself. SWIM did speak with someone who was selling 20mg veggie-caps of Alpha Asarone 98% and said that this level, insufflated, causes a mild entactogenic effect and that double or triple this dose is psychedelic.

SWIY have any feedback for SWIM?

[Female]

SWIM has done some research and many sources say that higher doses are hallucinogenic, but also that higher doses cause vomiting, even though lower doses are used to treat upset stomachs.
Sources also say it is a sedative..
The structure of the molecules is like ecstacy, so it might cause some reactions on drug tests.
But confirmatory testing will show negatives.
A mild dose is one to three grams..so..SWIM would start out small and work your way up. (don't take SWIM's word for it directly, hopefully someone with better knowledge of this stuff that SWIM will help SWIY along too)
A warning SWIM found is that it is not to be used with MAO-inhibitors,
and SWIM also found that different strands (of the calamus plant), like euro strands or american strands or even germanic or asiatic strands produce different effects, and sometimes even no psychedelic effects are noted. But..that's the plant, so no worried for SWIY. Good luck and good experimenting!

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good info, thanks

[Dj mOonShiNe]

sounds interesting. would one use an A/B xraction, if so wich solvent would be best and any segested ph levels( A and B, or just the pKa of Alpha Asarone). SWIM has heard from a natropath that A. calamus is quite bad for the liver, he has a whole heap growing though due to the fact he uses small amounts in his absinthe (about 2.5g dryed per L). Does anyone know how damageing to the liver A. calamus is and weather or not its due to the Alpha Asaone?

[Alfa]

Asarone is converted to TMA-2 by the liver. The amount of consumed asarone that would lead to a decent dose of TMA-2 is extremely high and very unhealthy for the liver. If TMA-2 would not be illegal, I'd say that it would be better to safe the liver from this hazardous task and have someone with chem skills do the convertion outside of the body.

Also see this:
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=796

[Nagognog2]

Propenylbenzenes, such as asarone, have been strongly implicated as carcinogens (cancer-causing). The same goes for sassafras - once popular as a herbal tea and a flavoring in soft-drinks such as root beer and sarsparilla. A "safe" quantity has not been established.

I know of people who extracted large amount of asarone from a. calamus. Upon ingestion - of very large quantities - they reported no desired psychedelic effects worth mentioning. The concept was abandoned and the asarone they had is likely still festering in a jar. If some of it was converted into TMA-2, the amount was miniscule.

[Dj mOonShiNe]

Alfa: thanks for the link
Nago: thanks for the info
"This is a seminal, or archetypal psychoactive material."
from Shulgin a high recomendation..

Alfa: "someone with chem skills do the convertion outside of the body. "
SWIM's practical skills are ok, theory on the otherhand... has anyone else done this? what were the results? how dificult is the pathway?

[Alfa]

The liver takes this:
asarone.gif
And transforms it into:
tma-2.gif

Procedures can be found in the Rhodium archive on this site.

[Nagognog2]

It's possible that the liver also changes the molecule before or during in vivo amination. By the same token, sassafras tea should turn into MDA. As would safrole. But these do not have the same effects as the direct molecule MDA does or TMA-2. So what actually happens and what is anticipated to happen appear to be two different animals.

[IdiotBox]

So to the best of my researching abilities have shown...

• Alpha asarone is an emetic and causes violent vomiting (Hence the suggested insufflation).
• Beta Asarone is linked to cancer and not the alpha asarone
• Extraction from roots may be successful but if the samples are old the Alpha Asarone may be significantly diminished (Cree natives said they were basically without value after a few months and totally inactive in under a year) and therefore totally fresh samples are the best.

I still cannot find any reference to the amination idea or in vivo conversion that I feel is reliable (ie forum chatter, erowid he said/she said stuff, and vendor claims). Cannot find anything much on PubMed or other such sites that support this with research.

SWIM assayed a small amount intransally (15mg) without emetic effect, but did receive a sense of mild elevation that may have just as easily been anticipation. SWIM has been nervous to take experiments further fearing either violent projectile vomiting or a multi-hour psychedelic experience at an unconvenient moment.

Anyway, SWIM might try a larger experiement at some point in the future and I will report back SWIM's experiences.

Reputation Comments on this post:

a well research post. Keep that up!

[mrvideoheadache]

SWIM just ordered some acorus calamus, and was needing an experienced user to sugest the correct way to take these. So is there a correct way to take large doeses of calamus without puking your guts out?

[Bajeda]

Why would swiy want to take Acorus Calamus? It seems from the information currently presented in this thread that it doesn't have much recreational potential and in addition to that there appear to be numerous health risks. A simple cost benefit analysis should hint that this isn't something especially worth experimenting with recreationally until more information or techniques come up somehow.

Please clarify this, as it would help us answer your question.

[OccularFantasm]

Swim finds it quite interesting that there is a potentially pshcotropic effect hidden within calamus root. Swim finds this most pecular since in ayurdevic medicine this root is used to counteract the psychotropic effects of cannabis. Swim would have assumed if anything that this root would diminish a pschadelic experiance. Perhaps if combined with some sort of antagonist for whatever makes the cannibis less pschoactive, then the pschotropic effects, if any, would be more prounounced. The major downfall in this theroy is swims lack of familiararity with this particular substance. Potentially, if Alpha Asarone is the same chemical that is responsible for diminishing cannabis effects and producing pschadelic effects of its own. Swim finds it significantly more likely that these are two seperate chemicals, however swim is not the experianced chemist and not qualified to make a claim, simply a hypothesis. Perhaps someone whom wishes to experiment and has a more extensive knowledge of chemistry may discover a way to make hypothesis a real experiment. Swim is studyin up on chem tho, granted slowly; so hopefully SWIM'll be able to contribute more than simple ideas in time. Swim actually supposes its pretty ignorant to assume that this theroy hasnt been exhausted already by those in the community.

[IdiotBox]

Hmmm interesting. THough SWIM is also aware that Ayurveda also uses Woodrose seeds for indications such as annorexia and flatulence. As you are probably aware of the hallucinogenic propoerties of these seeds, different preparations/dose amounts may alter the properties of the chemical significantly. SWIY should also make note of the above mentioned distinctions between the Asian Calamus varieties and the North American, as their chemical compositions are different, the former also containing beta-asarone, which may have the effects you mentioned without being particularly psychotropic.

SWIM wonders too if it is not just that the stimulant properties of Calamus are purportedly noticed first, with lower dose amounts, and the hallucinogenic properties are only reported with large amounts. The stimulant level dose may be enough to diminish the effects of a cannabis stupor without engaging the hallucinogenic effects from the calamus. Kinda like doing a line of coke when SWIM is passing out from alcohol...not enough to get high off of but enough to revive you.

[IdiotBox]

Originally Posted by Bajeda

A simple cost benefit analysis should hint that this isn't something especially worth experimenting with recreationally until more information or techniques come up somehow.

SWIM managed to obtain a significant amount for very little effort and expense. If the substance has any promise, the possibilities outweighed the negatives in SWIM's mind.

[OccularFantasm]

Swim thinks you may be on to something senor box. swim doesnt have experiance using calamus, but his experiance with mushrooms leads him to belive that this may hold truth. When swim takes a low dose of mushies, he feels kinda stoned, but on a high dosage, swim has increased energy, and if tolernce is low enough, hallucinates. Therefore for swim it stands to reason to accept your theory for the present as a viable possibility. Also swim was not aware of the difference between the two varieties of calamus. That information wil prove to be usefull with any research into this.

[tayo]

tayo's robot did an alcohol extraction of an oz. of acorus calamus root. about 50% alcohol in 200ml and an oz of calamus. how much should tayo's robot use? should robot just leave in mouth for 20 minutes for oral absorption? previously tayos robot had chewed up about 4 grams of calamus and reported onset of psychedelic-like visuals (DMTish). but then the hibernation switch turned robot off.

any suggestions for next attempt with tayo's robot?