MDMA and MDA: Telling Which is Which

[WrtngCocaineTutorial]

does anyone know how to find out if SWIM has bought MDMA or MDA, or maybe a combination?

SWIM has Marquis, Mandelin and Mecke kit but they don't seem to help for that purpose ..

[MaxCamel]

no Simons?....ummm..you will gurn noticibly more and your eyes will be all over the fucking place way worse than X..as far as smell or taste wise , im not sure if ther is a distinguisable way for these.....SWIM is picking up some MDA in 30 mins...lol....he has a tester kit that includes Simons tho...

Reputation Comments on this post:

cheers, thanks!

[radiometer]

two words: Simon's reagent

Reacts with secondary amines (MDMA) but not with primary amines (MDA). No reagent can tell if you have a MDA/MDMA combo, only lab-testing will do this.

Reputation Comments on this post:

found it and bought it, thanks!.

[Jackyl]

Originally Posted by radiometer

two words: Simon's reagent

Reacts with secondary amines (MDMA) but not with primary amines (MDA). No reagent can tell if you have a MDA/MDMA combo, only lab-testing will do this.

Radiometer is right: when the material to be investigated is pure Simon´s reagent wil tell the difference between MDA and MDMA. Unfortunately, MDEA will react in the same way as MDMA (both are secondary amines) and a few other phenethylamines as well, e.g. methamphetamine. Combining the Simon´s result with a Marquis test will at least exclude meth but not MDEA.

If MDMA is taken, isn´t a part converted into MDA within the body, and will the effects of this MDA influence the MDMA experience? How much of and how fast is MDMA actually metabolized into MDA?

Reputation Comments on this post:

helpful post, thanks for the back-up

[Forthesevenlakes]

swim was going to start a new thread for this, but figured it might as well go under this extant thread. a fellow lab rat of swim's says that one can tell mdma and mda apart from the come up and come down times of each. can anyone verify this? are they distinct enough with their come ups/downs to be able to discern them this way?

Reputation Comments on this post:

come up and come down times of each

[Psych0naut]

According to Erowid the after effects of MDA seem to be much shorter than those of MDMA, 2-4 hours for MDA and up to 24 hours for MDMA, also MDA is slightly more psychedelic.

Reputation Comments on this post:

nice answer and what I was looking for

[Forthesevenlakes]

interesting. the comeup should be much shorter for MDA than, too. swim is attempting a little experiement and he found the comeup correspondingly rapider. swim's lab rat friend reported a similar 35-50 minute comeup before peaking. swim is at T+2:30 hr and peaking strong. his comeup was roughly an hour. but what swim feels and what the lab rat say fit well with swipsych0naut's decription. thanks so much for helping swiUs figure that one out!

[TheFonz]

I found this article over @ Erowid which re-examins the duration of MDA....Not a bad read.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mda/mda_info1.shtml

After browsing over some info @ erowid, it sounds like it has a longer comedown too......

[Psych0naut]

Could SWIY post the source about the longer comedown?SWIM read the info on the dosage pages of both drugs on Erowid and that was the info he found, and what listed the duration of the come-down.MDMA dose and MDA dose.

[TheFonz]

MDMA: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_effects.shtml

MDA: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mda/mda_effects.shtml

Comparing the charts shows MDA to have a longer comedown by about 1-2hrs.

[Forthesevenlakes]

that "re-examination" article is really interesting. swim says he believes that his experience fell into the short 3-5 hour duration, in the "fast metabolizer" category. thanks for all your guys' help!

[Psych0naut]

Yes, a part of the MDMA will be de-methylated to MDA and also other reactions happen in-vivo.
SWIM has seen a very good post about this on Erowid or lyceaum, he will post it when he finds it.

[TheFonz]

Here is some empiracal info to back up the above post, http://www.maps.org/w3pb/new/2004/2004_de_20593_1.pdf

I found it over at MAPS. It seems to have all the info one could ever want about MDMA. If anybody needs help understanding the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics sections, don't hesitate to ask. It can be overwhelming at first, but really isn't that complicated at all once explained....

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Very useful link with
	nice link, explained alot to me
	rep points for several good posts - you're off to a very good start here, but PLEASE reconsider using that giant animate...
	Nice article: Please upload it to the archive

[Jackyl]

Originally Posted by TheFonz

Here is some empiracal info to back up the above post, http://www.maps.org/w3pb/new/2004/2004_de_20593_1.pdf.

Interesting read, Jackyl learned a lot...Would it be possible for swiy to post an enlarged version of Figure 1 here?

[Forthesevenlakes]

thefonz, that was a great link. swiy should upload that to the files forum when he has time. swim learned alot about the pharmacokinetics there.

[TheFonz]

Gladly, it will have to bee around mon/tues though...SWIM said the he is going to be swamped with work and other stuff this weekend, but would be more than happy to meet the above request.

[Nagognog2]

TheFonz: Please upload such to here:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/local_links.php?

Make a niche. Then tell folks here where it can be found with a link.

Thanks!

[TheFonz]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

TheFonz: Please upload such to here:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/local_links.php?

Make a niche. Then tell folks here where it can be found with a link.

Thanks!

Done! and this article was also uploaded.....

"Neurotoxicity of MDMA: the limitations of scaling from animals to humans"

http://www.maps.org/w3pb/new/2004/2004_de_20645_1.pdf





Enjoy....

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thumbs up for those articles!

[Fantasian]

Just to add recently SWIF experienced both MDA and MDMA. SWIF found that MDMA was slightly more euphoric and had less tension than MDA. Come up was faster on MDA than MDMA, but MDMA residual effects of euphoria lasted nearly two days post use. MDA was only 8 hours post use.

Just my 2p

[Forthesevenlakes]

swiFantasian...swim found the exact same results with his MDA experiment. he found MDA was still "fun", but a bit less euphoric and more of a general stimulation than MDMA. the comeup was much rapider, and the experience on a whole shorter. swim, while on MDA, also felt more talkative and less introspective than on MDMA. so in addition to pharmacokinetics there seems to be some subjective effects that are noticable enough to tell the two apart, for those lab rats who are paying attention to their experience as it happens.

[Powder_Reality]

SWIM was going to start a new thread about his last MDxx experience, but this one is pretty much perfect for it. SWIM's experience went something like this:

SWIM took one pill on an empty stomach and could feel the effects coming on after about 45 minutes. It started out with a very pure MDMA come-up feeling, but about an hour or so after taking it, it started to feel a little different. It felt more "animated" for lack of a better word. The social and talkative effects of MDMA were not really present, and he felt a little more "mentally sober" than on MDMA. He also felt less relaxed than on MDMA, but he still felt very happy. He took one more pill 1.5 hour after taking the first one. This is when the effects really started to kick in.

About 2 hours after dropping the first pill, SWIM's pupils start to wiggle much more than on pure MDMA. It was like they were fluttering all over SWIM's eyeball. SWIM has always enjoyed nystagmus from MDMA, and he really enjoyed this effect. SWIM noticed that he also had a much more intense body high then on MDMA. SWIM has never really liked dancing on MDMA, but he really enjoyed dancing on these pills with the insane eye wiggling and body rushes. These effects lasted for about another 2-3 hours. During this time SWIM did not feel very talkative or social, just really "fucked up". He did feel happy during this time, just not the usual "social happy" that he gets from MDMA. He also noticed that there were a few visuals present, but mostly just patterns in his field of vision. The effects from these pills were very intense; SWIM sometimes felt as though he needed to sit down for a while because he felt as though he may pass out.

When he started coming down, he didn't feel a great desire to do more. When he comes down off of MDMA, he usually feels a strong desire to do more. With these pills the desire was present, but not as intense. He turned on the TV and laid down on his floor for about an hour. He noticed that his body temperature was quite a bit higher than usual, which made him a little anxious. For about an hour, he laid on his floor listening to music with his eyes closed. During this time he had a bit of a head trip, worrying about his body temperature. This head trip feeling doesn't usually happen to SWIM on MDMA, unless the dosage is quite high. It was more of a psychedelic introspective feeling. During this time SWIM also experienced some closed eye visuals. He would visualize a few different scenarios that he would get lost in, and then snap out of. It was like watching dreams get played out in front of his eyelids.

Finally, SWIM fell asleep for about 3.5 hours. It wasn't a very good sleep, as he kept waking up, usually to use the washroom. The next day he felt okay, just a little tired. He felt unable to sleep for the rest of the day, but slept for about 16 hours when he finally did. The next day he woke up feeling extremely depressed. Much much more than he has before on MDMA or other pills. He felt like absolute shit and wanted nothing more than to fall back alseep or to get a hold of some benzos to calm himself. But after about 30 minutes, he felt better. This seemed quite odd to SWIM.

SWIM is almost positive that these pills contained MDA. Possibly pure MDA or a mixture of MDA with a very tiny bit of MDMA. Any insights on SWIM's experience?