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  #1  
Old 17-06-2013, 06:17
Aria333 Aria333 is offline
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Pure Hydrocodone

This may have been discussed over and over be fore but it is some thing that I am sitting here and thinking about there fore I thought that I would share it right here and right now.

I know that people do abuse Vicodin, but why is the FDA oh so very adamantly opposed to the idea of letting doctors write scripts for us which consist of only the pure Hydrocodone with out any of the Ibuprofen or Tylenol in it? I mean the Vicodin is not what is killing people, it is the NSAIDS in it. The massive amounts of NSAIDS which are consumed is what is giving people the Kidney and or Liver problems resulting in sickness and even many deaths and yet they will not legalize us to have it just in its pure form? Does any one else see the wisdom in that one because I just do not.
  #2  
Old 17-06-2013, 06:59
AlteredEnthusiasm AlteredEnthusiasm is offline
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Re: Pure Hydrocodone

First off, tylenol (acetaminophin (USAN)/ paracetamol (INN) is not an NSAID, just as a bit of info for future reference.

On to the question: The tylenol and NSAIDs are mixed with hydrocodone to prevent abuse (yes, I am aware they are failing miserably at this attempt, but that is what they claim the reason is). It really doesn't have anything to do with the FDA, and the U.S. drug scheduling has titles written into it to separate scheduling of hydrocodone only products from hydrocodone + NSAID/APAP products. There are currently products being manufactured (still in the testing stages and awaiting approval) that are just hydrocodone, and some doctors will prescribe hydrocodone only pills that must be made in a pharmacy because there are no products manufactured by pharmaceutical companies (that are widely available in the U.S.) that only contain hydrocodone. Hope I was able to shed some light on the issue, and I believe if you use the search function on this site you will find several threads discussing this same issue, and they may be able to offer a bit more information.
  #3  
Old 19-06-2013, 04:40
BudBarsBlues BudBarsBlues is offline
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Re: Pure Hydrocodone

Very Interesting Question, BUT There is an answer & a few Reasons Why

Hydrocodone, sometimes called Vicodin has been a pharmaceutical for a very long time it was one of the first commercially used available opiate tablets used to treat pain. The reason they use APAP in these tablets is because the APAP weather it's IB or whatever the case may be actually potentates the Hydrocodone making it stronger. You would say "well than why is Oxycodone available alone but Hydro still is not. The reason is that Oxycodone does not become more potent with APAP. It does help with pain sometimes more effectively but doesn't become as potent in the same way. There is almost like a chemical reaction between the two that makes them almost synergize (Hydro & APAP). Also Hydrocodone is a schedule III controlled substance. If it was available alone, it would be bumped up to schedule II along with Oxy.
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Old 21-06-2013, 23:26
AlteredEnthusiasm AlteredEnthusiasm is offline
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Re: Pure Hydrocodone

BudBars I would like to see a source on that one. Oxycodone and Hydrocodone differ by two hydrogen atoms and effect the same receptors in the same way just in different potencies. They also have the same active metabolites. I cannot see how APAP would potentiate Hydro (via magical chemical reactions) but not Oxy.
  #5  
Old 22-06-2013, 00:12
baselined baselined is offline
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Re: Pure Hydrocodone

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlteredEnthusiasm View Post
BudBars I would like to see a source on that one. Oxycodone and Hydrocodone differ by two hydrogen atoms and effect the same receptors in the same way just in different potencies. They also have the same active metabolites. I cannot see how APAP would potentiate Hydro (via magical chemical reactions) but not Oxy.
I agree with you that there is not magical synergy between hydrocodone and APAP. However, hydrocodone and oxycodone do not have the same metabolites. Hydrocodone => hydromorphone and oxycodone => oxymorphone

To the OP's question. They combine the two drugs in hopes to improve analgesic response, which studies did show actually happens. Now they don't have any (at least easily available) formulations of hydrocodone without APAP, and keep it this way in order to deter abuse, but again this is only part of the reason. Initially it was to improve the drugs effective pain killing response (not the high).

Oxycodone was probably chosen to have formulations without APAP/ibuprofen as it has a better pain killer effect (i.e. greater analgesic response), as opposed to hydrocodone alone or mixed. Although this is just speculation, I am not sure if that's the exact reasoning or not. And, in the treatment of cancer pain, it was shown to have equal analgesia, but less side-effects when compared to morphine. Not sure if they even bothered looking at hydrocodone for this, doubt it as oxy is stronger anyway.

Just FYI, a few pharmaceutical companies are in the process of developing a sustained release hydrocodone that will not contain APAP or ibuprofen.
  #6  
Old 27-06-2013, 10:54
wtfdustinwtf wtfdustinwtf is offline
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Re: Pure Hydrocodone

Well I typed out one long response then walked off to get something done came back and my browser crashed... I typed a bunch of actual chemistry with references that anyone can look up with simple google searches, though its a bit more in-depth than just understand the molecule how oxy and hydro differe which opioid receptors the effect and in what way(antag vrs agno) and "strength". Its also the breakdown and bio-availability and I can never EVER rule out the "everyones different, everyones body is different factor"

A point I focused on though was that in my experience after making my own hydrocodone powder ( almost all apap gone and then almost all binders) and after such use of the powder among, eh, probably 80 different ppl. I have found that hydro powder is preferred over oxy by all but two people(to be fair im about 90% close/certain that its right about 80 different people who have tried it but I only remember of hearing 2 people saying oxy was better). Its a small group of people with no setup controls predetermined experimental setup gold standard and all that but I can say I never said to anyone that it would seam stronger just that it was cleansed of most of the filler and if one wanted to use it intranasal that they could.

Had a lot more typed out but from what im finding the mass craze about roxi (salt oxy) 15mg and 30mg means little to those who have tried the hydro powder. *I decided to put this down here kind of not in order though* I must also add that if one has a free couple of hours at most and you take careful note and study of the entier process of oxy and hydro in the body including data from all the ROA and data from BOTH oxy and hydro powder (I still mean without apap and in the case of oxy without most of the binders when I say powder) and its effects.. Im not sure why the metabalites matter in this particular situation once they are filtered and converted to waste form thats it for them!, just talking about oxy and hydro. Hope this can atleast spark some thoughts and maybe get some people to either learn or restudy these two particular things.

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