Drug info - Spice Smoking Blend

[Thirdedge]

Ok, well Swim decided this one deserves its own thread . . . I know, some of you are gonna cringe, but Swim is determined to find out what the active ingredient in this product. A legal alternative to Cannabis would be a very usefull thing for many people, so here goes . . .

Spice is a herbal Smoking blend (therefore a smart product rather than enthobotanical) that does produce a very Cannabis like high when smoked. It seems to be the only one of these type of products that is really effective.

The ingredients are as follows:
Baybean, Blue Lotus, Lion's Tail, Lousewort, Indian Warrior, Dwarf Scullcap, Maconha Brava, Pink Lotus, Marshmallow, Red Clover, Rose, Siberian Motherwort, Vanilla, and Honey.

So, basically Swim assumes one or a combination of the above ingredients is a DECENT Cannabis alternative. Alternatively the product could be mislabled and contain something completlely diffrent?

The Red clover, Marshmallow, Rose and Honey are inactive so we can eliminate those.
Swim has tried the Lotus, Lions tail, motherwort seperately and found them to be very mild.
So that leaves Maconha brava, Pedicularis, Baybean, Dwarf Skullcap as the likely suspects.
Do any Swims have any ideas on these plants?

[tre2005be]

there is already a thread on this somewhere, they think its the Maconha brava as it means wild weed or something like that. but swim has experienced effects from smoking kanna and blue lotus seperately. here is the thread on machonha brava http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...ighlight=spice. i think its just the mixture of everything that gives swiy the cannabis like high. just out of curiosity would swiy say its worth buyin? swim has seen this product a couple of times and thought about buyin it.

[Thirdedge]

Yeah, Swim started the Maconha brava thread as he was interested in that plant specifically, but its possible the active ingredient in Spice could be something completely different.
Swim would not purchase Spice if decent weed was available at a decent price, however its the next best thing. Swim would definatly purchase if he couldn,t get hold of any weed, or was facing a drug test. If it where half the price Swim would purchase it more regularly though.
Swim does think it is a turning point for legal Cannabis alternatives and is looking forward to trying future products of this nature.

[Liam...]

Spice is the closest legal alternative, its great when mixed with weed to.

[tre2005be]

swim would like to know in what way it is like weed? giggles? muchies? deep philosophical thoughts (although swim doesnt know anyone else who gets these off weed). or is it just the body high sort of thing.

[Mona Lisa]

SWIM found it similar to weed in that it made her feel dreamy and introspective; it also made her feel euphoric with similarly enhanced music appreciation and even the munchies; she also felt more easily aroused, sexually. If anything, SWIM found it even more trippy and that it lasted even longer than marijuana, with Closed Eye Visuals.

[prescription]

In new zealand the stuff is R-18 if that helps

[Alfa]

The stuff is R-18 everywhere.

[Thirdedge]

All drugs are R18 as far as swims concerned. When under 18 your brain is still developing and altering its chemicals may interfer with that development.

While many smokes give the body effect of weed, eg: Hops extract, Spice is the only one Swim has found that enhances the sences and creative thought processes and gives a euphoria. And yes, Swim experienced the munchies too. Spice also seems to invoke less paranoia than weed, although Swim has still experienced a little. This could be partly due to the fact that it is legal, ie: no sub-councious fear of getting busted.
Many other smokes are relaxing but not really recreational. Others are meditative like Salvia but definetly not suitable as everyday Cannabis alternatives.
Swim has also found Spice to be synergic with Cannabis and Blue Lotus.

Reputation Comments on this post:

hell yeah, great post! i agree with the part that i actually know anything about!

[zapatista]

does anyone know why some vendors place exportation restrictions on this product? Why is it not available in the USA? Other smoking blends are available in the USA. Could it be that it is promoted as an alternative to MJ?
Z

[Thirdedge]

Streetdrug alternatives are illegal in the USA. Could also be that the product is likely to cause a hoo har / get banned if released there and this could lead to other countries following suit.

[Abrad]

SWIM was given a sample of this today and is smoking it for the first time now. He is quite impressed, definetely feels cannabis like although the smoke is a little harsh.

[Alfa]

Besides that it is legal, does Spice beat Soapbar?
Since I do not know Soapbar, I have no way of comparison. It would be an interesting question in relation to the dope drought.

[Abrad]

Definetely.
After smoking soapbar SWIM would feel lethargic and probably have a headache. After smoking 400mg of spice SWIM feels pretty good. There is no euphoria with soapbar but with spice there is. SWIM will definetely be smoking this again in the absence of good weed.
As for which herbs are responsible for the effect, isn't Lions Tail another name for Wild Dagga?

[Mona Lisa]

Swim has also smoked a pre-rolled Spice joint (probably around 350-400mg) and found it gave her a high similar to marijuanas (though onset is delayed from about 15 minutes after smoking it). Once effects begain, Swim felt sexy, the munchies, dreamy, CEVS, the lot! The only downside is that there is a mild hangover the next day in which SWIM feels slightly cloudy headed and tired. But not a bad substitute for the 'real deal'...

SWIM is also aware that there is now a new 'Gold' blend of SPice which is supposedly even stronger. Recent reports of other forums have suggested that 'Regular' Spice being produced may be weaker because there are increasing reports of newer batches not having the same effects, though this could be because they've lowered the price recently (and by default, diluted said product)...

Another possibility is that regular users could develop a tolerance to the effects, though SWIM has only smoked it on three occassions, so would not be able to comment about whether users definitely develop a tolerance.

[zapatista]

there has to be an additional substance that is added to the ethnobotanicals that are mentioned in the product. I suspect this is the case because it cant be exported to certain countries. I also suspect this becuase the product can be made "stronger" without any additional increase in bulk.
z

[Fluxxed]

my cat loves this stuff! She smoked weed for years, and put up with lots of paranoia, strong lethargy and laziness etc. Spice is like skunk without the bad bits - its now the only thing she smokes! She gets good giggles, deep thoughts, nice CEV's and improved imagination capabilities - she still has a clear headspace, feels confident and loves writing music and talking deep! She also enjoys the cool pleasant smoke, and no longer has to rely on unreliable weed dealers, as she gets it from the high street

i am talking about SPICE GOLD. The new extra strength stuff. She loves it!

[Mona Lisa]

There has been some recent claims that spice contains HU 210. anyone else know anything about this? Is this why these strange shipping restrictions are put ont this product because it sure cant be the ingredients of herbs listed on the package?

HU-210 (CAS# 112830-95-2) is a syntheticcannabinoid that was discovered around 1988 in the group of Dr Raphael Mechoulam at the Hebrew University. HU-210 is 100 to 800 percent more potent than natural THC from cannabis and has an extended duration of action. HU-210 is the (+)-1,1-dimethylheptyl analog of 7-hydroxy-delta-6-tetrahydrocannabinol. The abbreviation HU stands for Hebrew University.
Per a 2005 article in the Journal Of Clinical Investigation, HU-210 actually stimulates cell growth in the brain's hippocampus region, an opposite effect of drugs like alcohol, nicotine, heroin, and cocaine.
HU-210, along side WIN 55,212-2 and JWH-133, is implicated in preventing the inflammation caused by Amyloid beta proteins involved in Alzheimer's Disease, in addition to preventing cognitive impairment and loss of neuronal markers. This antiinflmatory action is induced through the agonization of cannabinoid receptors which prevents microglial activation that elicits the inflammation. Additionally, cannabinoids completely abolish neurotoxicity related to microglia activation in rat models.

[Alfa]

Here is the response of a distributor of spice:

Hi Everyone,
Sorry it has taken us a couple of days to put a response together but the supplier of Spice is and has been on holiday for a few weeks and we had to get his response directly as the posts made mention that Mark at *** knew him. We were as surprised as you all are about Marks assertion so we had to get to the bottom of it before replying! I hope this will help to settle this issue.

Many Thanks

In response to the discussion and false statements about spice on various forums.
It appears the rumours posted about spice on the various forums were started by Mark at *** Botanicals. Mark has claimed that he knows the manufacturer of spice and also that he has completed HPLC analysis on Spice showing it contains HU-210. Both of these statements are false and Spice does not contain HU-210.

Mark has previously contacted a mutual business associate with an interest to acquire Spice and we declined to sell because we have chosen not to market spice in North America at this time. There seems to be a general misconception that our country distribution restrictions have something to do with Spice being illegal in the certain countries we have listed. This is not the case, our restrictions are in fact an attempt to limit Spice from being distributed into the countries we feel are most likely to ban the product rapidly and thus cause a cascade effect that would shut down our primary markets prematurely.

We would prefer to not have to refute all rumours of what may or not make Spice so nice but felt compelled this time as the current claims could be damaging to the reputation of the product. I do not know mark's reasons or intentions for his claims.

Some additional information:

Originally Posted by Shamantra

Hi , and thank you for your respone, like mentioned before I thought it would be extremply risky of you IF this was the case and this is why I have had doubts and asked about it here, with EDIT beeing a reseller of spice I figured this would be the best place to debate this subject and bring this to your attention (and i was right) . I was actually coming here to tell this; I just got the data sheet for HU210 and with my chemical knowledge from what I can tell is that HU210 cannot be smoked because of its melting point, well it could but it wouldnt be very effective . I will help you spread this reply to other message boards where this has been debatet and hopefully help end this rumour.

have a good day

[smeechdog]

Hi People,

I have been smoking spice pretty much since it came out. I've been lurking on many an internet forum keeping up to date on the situation...from it's mention on wikopedia (what a BAD idea whatever the intentions) to the rumours of it having HU-210 or even BZP (lol) inside!
Far away from the debates I sit, warm and tosty by the fire and load up another bong of spice gold and smile knowingly to myself. Not that I would ever in my dreams smoke an illegal substance, but say I was to be a habitual cannabis smoker for over five years...We could imagine that I may have smoked around 1/2 oz a week @ £xx...sometimes more, never less. I guess that someone in that situation wouldn't have been able to go without cannabis right? If they didn't smoke it they'd probably be twitchy, might even have to get drunk to sleep. That would be crazy. Well if I were that person I probably would've switched over exclusively to spice around four months ago....anyway, I digress...

I've been smoking spice for around five months, and I think it's really, really nice. It's enticed me to try other "legal herbs" but to be fair there isn't anything else out there....YET.
I am nicely toasted as I type this, but wanted to kinda outline the differences between weed and spice (as I see it, this is of course a subjective matter - different strokes for different folks and all that).

1. Spice won't get you "wrecked"

Reputation Comments on this post:

Don not post prices! Read the rules!

[smeechdog]

* Sorry I'm new, pressed tab (I think) and now I'm staring at my half complete post already posted....I'll continue in this, the second part of said post.


1. Spice won't get you "wrecked"

Okay, this is a double edged sword really. For now we can assume this is a bad thing. However, I imagine it'd be hard to "whitey" on Spice or Spice gold. You can definitely get stoned, eat cookies and have a nice day but you can't achieve the high's of grade A cannabis...however it still makes soapbar look like sh*t...which, well, it is.

2. What was that?!?

So you won't get those searing high's of really, really nice skunk, but you won't hear footsteps behind you (which are blatently your own), or corner of the eye movements. You won't walk into a room and think people have been talking about you (even though they have!). In fact I have never felt a tiny morsel of paranoia with spice. With cannabis I was paranoid pretty much most of the time...usually silly stuff like people talking about me, or me being more noticable as I walked around....strange but true.

3. Taste

Might not seem important, but spice is sort of bitter. Even with the vanilla and honey, and although it smells like sweet vanilla tea it tastes sort of odd. The smoke doesn't really smell of anything though which has got to be a good thing for sneaky-highness! Cannabis however tastes beautiful, fragrant and sweet so I'm told, so I could be missing out there. ):

4. Life expectancy....
Okay, so I'm not here to make any wacky claims about knowing the effects of cannabis, tobacco or spice on the human anatomy (i'm sure this is a subjective argument and based on soo many variables). I highly doubt that smoking any will be good for you. That is why I bought a vaporiser and we (along with two girls Mary and er... think her name was Janet? something like that, could've been jane) enjoyed many a beautiful evening together. However, paranoia, cost etc has meant that I had to look at alternatives. When I was vaporising spice I just got slightly high, with a sore head and incredibly dry mouth. I think I need a better vaporiser but can't afford one. Until then I'm stuck smoking spice in a bong.

5. Cost!!!
Spice gold is expensive right? Well, yeah, but I think it's a little deceptive for a few reasons. You don't really get any stalks in spice, I've smoked loads and loads and only found the occasional "unsmokable". You also know exactly what you're getting (weight/strength). No dodgy dealer selling you terrible buds, or underweight packages. I live in a village...in the middle of nowhere...and had to drive at least a 40 mile round trip to pick up green (soapbar on the doorstep but buying off 14years olds and smoking boot polish aint my scene). Petrol isn't cheap and finding an excuse to go and pick up was always difficult. When I'd get there I'd maybe have to wait 10-15 mins for his arrival...dodgy car meetings...horrible weather, scally kids, interested OAP's/residents...do I miss it. No.
I have also sat down and worked out that I smoke around 1 eighth of gold every 3-3.5 days, which is only 1/4 a week. Admittedly I bulk it out with other cheap herbal mixes but that's crazy! It makes me think that I was ripped off for that time. I was smoking approx xxx worth of weed a week, now I'm smoking around xxxxxxxxx worth of spice gold? That's at xxxx a bag, and if you snoop around you may be able to find cheaper (I know two sites which work out at around xxxxx a bag...savings could add up).

I possibly have more to say, anyway I'm amost as bored of writing as you will be of reading this so I'm gonna stop. I'll post more when I've had a smoke of spice with a cigarette 'chaser' and possibly a cheeky beer. (:

Reputation Comments on this post:

	thanks for the extensive description. A fine contribution. NOw if you'd only read the rules, you'll be totally set to go...
	Good informative post. keep 'em coming.

[Alfa]

Yeah the wikipedia page is pretty ugly and the intentions are pretty obvious. Some fake buds(you probably know the banners) producers seem to getting ugly trying to tear the product spice down with unsubtantiated claims, now that there is something that really works. It seems rivalling companies are a larger threat to ethnobotanicals & smart products than the government is these days.

[Thirdedge]

I agree, everyone who has made a nasty claim about Spice has then proceded to launch their own smoking blend, even using the name Spice to draw in customers.
Every one of these Spice copies has fallen far short of the effects produced by Spice.
Swim has pointed this out on certain other forums only to have his posts quietly deleted in favour of posts from the above mentioned vendors.
Swim has smoked Cannabis more days than not for over 15 years. Spice is the first legal smoking blend that even comes close. All those fake buds have zero psychoactive effects and are likely dangerous as they likely contain some kind of glues to bind the "compressed kitchen herbs" together.
The latest on Spice is that its totally herbal as listed on the pack

[snapper]

SWIM cannot specifically comment on Spice since SWIM has no access, but doesn't feel that it is necessarily a substitute for other smoking blends or MJ. The ones that are not inactives have different and unique effects in their own rights, as Spice most likely does. There is no point in one trying to trump or slander the other.
SWIM spent some time trying to find the original posts about the HU-210 adulterant but they seem to only exist as quotes in other posts discussing the possibility. The lack of substance to most of these claims makes SWIM want to disregard all of them.
Maybe someday Spice will end up in SWIMs area, and SWIM will likely give it a try. SWIM expects that it will not be a replacement for MJ, but may provide its own unique effects which may make it worthwhile in its own right.

[jittle]

hi guys & girls

swim woke up this morning & opened a .4 pack of spice & smoked it.
he wasnt sure if he was stoned or not or if he was just hangin from night before.he ended up having a coughing fit because he has bad chest at the moment.but whent back to bed & slept till 16.00 woke up wrecked so the stuff must work.

the only thing he said was the smell & taste is like vanilla & who wants to toke vanilla bud ?

jit