opiates and chain smoking

[Forthesevenlakes]

SWIM has noticed that whenever he indulges in opiates, no matter what form theyre in, he smokes alot more than usual. he has only recently had this come to his attention, but after thinking about it, has realized that this has always been the case.

his cravings dont seem to get more intense, but rather, they arent fulfilled by smoking a cigarette. normally he can smoke, and be fine for a couple hours. on opiates, after a mere five minute refractory period, he notices the craving again.

his preliminary theory, after looking up a couple articles, is that opiates down the line have action as NMDA agonists. swim knows that NMDA regulates, at least in part, the tolerance/addiction issue of opiates themselves. he thinks that they may trigger cravings for other substances, too, such as nicotine, but doesnt have an article to prove it.

he also theorizes that an NMDA antagonist like dxm should block these cigarette cravings. he is going to try this little experiment himself sometime soon when he as access to the materials, but wants to get other peoples input too! swim knows that many people use a bit of DXM...say 30 mg, to potentiate opiate experiences. if SWIY is a regular smoker, does SWIY notice that cigarette cravings decrease when potentiation is used? for that matter, does anyone else notice that their cravings increase when they are on opiates, or is swim just a pharmacological anomaly?

any feedback would be appreciated, and swim will upload relevant articles as he finds them.

[rodent]

Ha! SWIM thought he was the only one...

When SWIM take opiates, which is rarely nowadays, he notices the exact thing you describe. He really doesn't smoke much anyways, about 2-5 cigs/day but when opiated he smokes WAY more. Still not a chain smoker at that point but it certainly makes him craves the butts.

Wish he could help you with the test but DXM really isn't for him and the other NMDA antagonists are harder to come by. If he comes across some K or something soon, I'll be sure to have him report back here.

Edit: Forgot to mention that smoking cannabis has the opposite effect; he really can't stand smoking cigs at all after smoking herb.

Reputation Comments on this post:

swim thought he was the only one! good post!

[Forthesevenlakes]

interesting, glad that SWIM isnt the only one! swim also notices that after smoking cannabis, he doesnt want to smoke cigs much either. additionally on MDMA they just taste disgusting to him, and theres no craving whatsoever! on either of these drugs he doesnt feel much of a craving for opiates, either, so maybe theres a connection?

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by forthesevenlakes

interesting, glad that SWIM isnt the only one! swim also notices that after smoking cannabis, he doesnt want to smoke cigs much either. additionally on MDMA they just taste disgusting to him, and theres no craving whatsoever! on either of these drugs he doesnt feel much of a craving for opiates, either, so maybe theres a connection?

VERY interesting. Swim has just the opposite problem. After smoking weed or taking other amphetamine type drugs (adderall, MDMA, etc.) he smokes shitloads of cigarettes. He just cant stop smoking them.

After taking (or smoking) some opiates he doesn't feel much like smoking at all.

How peculiar!

[INodHardOhYeah]

Cigarettes also seem to be much more satisfying when on opiates, for this particular reason and not that he feels like he needs to SWIM smokes much more on opiates. SWIM and SWIMs friend used to do H and split 3 packs of cigarettes in a matter of 4-5 hours.

Now the day after doing opiates (assuming SWIM hadn't already started doing opiates again) cigarettes will make SWIM feel dope sick like a shot of Narcan while peaking.

[Fantasian]

Originally Posted by INodHardOhYeah

Now the day after doing opiates (assuming SWIM hadn't already started doing opiates again) cigarettes will make SWIM feel dope sick like a shot of Narcan while peaking.

ISnt that something to do with part of the withdrawal, Nictotine causes release of Noradrenaline which is why SWIYour suffering from withdrawal in the first place. After the opiates leave SWIY's Blood system he gets an increase of noradrenaline.

WHile using opiates the NOradrenaline system is inhibited.

Not sure if thats right but it rings a bell somewhere.

[Forthesevenlakes]

Originally Posted by Fantasian

ISnt that something to do with part of the withdrawal, Nictotine causes release of Noradrenaline which is why SWIYour suffering from withdrawal in the first place. After the opiates leave SWIY's Blood system he gets an increase of noradrenaline.

WHile using opiates the NOradrenaline system is inhibited.

Not sure if thats right but it rings a bell somewhere.

that sounds really familiar. something swim heard about a fight or flight response in the nervous system after the opiates leave...which is certainly what withdrawal can feel like. but yeah, nicotine has the same "day after" effect. swim will normally go about half a day if not more without smoking the next day...since smoking will make him want to vomit.

[Forthesevenlakes]

more so then when swiy uses other drugs?

(remember , swim uses drugs, not you!)

[BUZZFACTOR]

Just adding SWIM's experiences along with everyone else. SWIM would smoke like a fiend when on opiates especially s methadone SWIM's daily consumption normally is quite low 5-10 per day. When on methadone packs flew off the shelf!! On that note SWIM would like to take the time to drop 3 40mg. biscuits into his mountain dew, gulp said mixture down, and tear into a carton of boros. AHHHHHHHHHH

[Klaus]

Swim found it to be the complete oposite.

In fact Swim quit Smoking with asistance from opiates.

Swim also found opiates invaluable when quiting another substance,but thats another story.

[cz-one]

I found too whilst prescribed subutex that smoking became a gross experience and have completely stopped,whereas with heroin or methadone its quite pleasurable to smoke,i guess some of the same receptors etc. are used.

[DrMuffy]

SWIdr also has the total opposite effect (just like SWIbejeda). He will smoke almost a pack on a day when he uses stimulants lke amps, cocaine, or ecstacy (Keep in mind SWIdr usually only smokes at most 3 cigs on a normal day). But when he uses opiates of any kind, the thought of inhaling that cigarette smoke seems totally disgusting. It seems like the opiates are in some way intensifying the users' genetic predisposition (or lack of) to smoke in general.

[Santa]

Swim did indeed smoke like a chimney when she was using heroine and is convinced opiods trigger something that makes you want to smoke a lot. Swim was actually that bad that she only wanted to have a fix when she had at least 3 cigarets nearby.
Swim rather waited another 10 minutes to get her fix - even when Swim was very sick - when she had run out of fags. Swim just HAD to go and buy them first. Otherwise it would spoil Swims shot.. When swim prepared a shot she used to put her cigarets & lighter in front of her, as part of the ritual you might say.. Swim made sure that one cigaret was already lit in the ashtray next to her to be smoked as soon as she felt the flash coming on. Swim quit heroine now but still smokes... although much less.
By the way: Swim is very curious whether subutex will have any effect on the cravings for nicotin? Because Swim wants to quit smoking..

[addicted2hc]

SWIM also chain smokes when hes on opiates - at first. Then he figures out hes getting an overwhelmingly upset stomach and quits smoking cigs for the rest of the night in order to enjoy his buzz.

[rising1]

Research on hydrocodone shows that opiates have an affect on the nicotinamide receptors. While I cannot quote the study, a summation of the abstract is that opiates allow higher amounts of the nicotinamide receptors to be, in laymans terms, activated. Its buried in there , just look.

[TwinTransfusion]

Swim completely agrees. It's SWIM'a favorite time to hang out and read a book while chain-smoking.

SWIM did notice that smoking seemed to lessened the effect of Roxicodone immediately.

SWIM is a chronic pain patient, and a closet-smoker.

Shhhhhhh.

[Handle]

Originally Posted by rising1

Research on hydrocodone shows that opiates have an affect on the nicotinamide receptors. While I cannot quote the study, a summation of the abstract is that opiates allow higher amounts of the nicotinamide receptors to be, in laymans terms, activated. Its buried in there , just look.

All right, first, an admission of ignorance. But nicotinamide is just a different version of niacin, vitamin B3 or nicotinic acid. So, it thought it was just a vitamin. But yes, also it has a strong vasodilator effect [well, niacin does, and I think that's why most vitamin combo's now have nicotinamide instead, becausse it causes less of a hot flush effect than straight nicotinic acid] and nicotine has a vasoconstrictor effect so is there some relation there?
When on the bad stuff SWIM smoked a lot of Peter Stuyvesants [probably trying to look cool] but then got on legit buprenorphine ansd quit smoking. he never was a 'real' smoker though, but maybe another reason is, that for some the pleasing mental effects of small amounts of nicotine were outweighed by the unpleasant feelings of smoking. So, maybe it's just that the antitussive effects of opiates reduce the irritation smoking causes in the lungs, and so the pro/con weighting shifts and it [smoking] regains some appeal.
Finally, on buprenorphine, it has been shown to also help discontinue cocaine 'addiction' [if you believe in it] among non opiate users. So there could be some dopamine effects in there that could be just as good at stopping smoking as they are at stopping coking.

[Denethor]

SWIM finds that he doesn't so much crave cigarettes more when on opiates, they just seem far more pleasurable than usual when inhaled.

But he does find himself smoking alot more, just for the sheer gorgeousness of it.

And hello all by the way...

[KBLSD]

thats crazy the only time swim smokes alot of cigs is under the influence opiates he also loves to smoke hookah tobacco under the influence of psychedelics

[Ellis D.]

SWIM usually pukes of he smokes after dosing an opiate. His old roomie had same effects. because of this SWIM tends to stay away from cigs when doped.

[Handle]

Funny how both of them [ciggies and opiates] can have paradoxical effects. First off, dope can make you feel very sick, but then give it time and you can't even face breakfast without it. That's why 'maxolone' is a very strong antiemetic, but also opiate related. SWIM once made a foolish error in his earlier youth, and scoffed several maxolones, and got the worst all night dysphoria of his life [before he even knew what 'hanging out' felt like], maybe it knocked off his endogenous opioids or what, who knows. But same with tobacco, terrible at first, worse than ipecac for young tums, but then it ends up one of the best stomach calmers out there.
But ellis D. you are right, SWIM remembers taking a very very old morphine cordial and maybe the sweeteners or preservatives had gone off, but more likely it was just being unaccustomed to strong stuff, and that nausea was pretty bad. Definitely at first, opiates can put one off one's food [and put the food onto innocent bystanders!]